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Ma Satya Priya: Reporting From The Osho Resort


Sw Satyaprem: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: arrowstone@wapda.com
Date: Apr 8, 2005, 0:56
To Ma Satyapriya..Happy to see your face and that all is well Highest Regards Sw Satyaprem......

Reply
    Pankaj Mohan: Controversies Made Osho Rajneesh More Colorful
    WWW: proaudience.com
    Email: dhyan69@rediffmail.com
    Date: Jan 13, 2008, 15:15
    This debate between the Osho followers and his critics will go on for ever. My own take on this matter has been posted on the following link (hope it is allowed):

    http://proau dience.com/2008/01/contro versies-made-osho-rajnees h-more-colorful/

    Kind Regards,
    Pankaj Mohan

    Reply
      mr johnson: RE:Controversie s Made Osho Rajneesh More Colorful
      Email: uthge@gmail.com
      Date: Apr 23, 2017, 11:20
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      Reply
    Anonymous: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Date: Jan 23, 2008, 14:55
    Dear Sannyasins,

    First, I would like to say, that I bring a unique perspective to this argument; that of enlightenment. Yes, I am enlightened, but I also know that doesn't mean shit to any of you.

    What is my background? I am not going to tell you, because it wouldn't matter to you anyway.

    Osho did not leave us paradise. Osho did not leave us any enlightened people. If he did, come forward now and enter into this debate, or forever keep your fucking mouths shut!

    Calder, your basic argument against Osho is that he lied. Yes, I remember he lied, but let us put lying into perspective.

    What is lying? Lying is a human instinct. It evolved out of animal camouflage. When a tiger is stalking its prey, it uses camouflage to hunt. The hunt would not be successful without the camouflage. Without camouflage, the tiger would not exist.

    Now I put forward to you this theory. Without lying, Osho would not have existed, at least not to your consciousness.

    Calder, answer this question. Is what you are saying, that now you wished Osho had never entered your consciousness?

    Why did Osho lie? The man was 35 years old and a college professor. He spoke all over the country of India, speaking the truth. Do you know what it got him? nothing!

    Osho wanted to publish his speeches. He had no means to do that, so he had to devise a means. He saw people coming from the West. He saw people like John Lennon and George Harrison. He saw that it was the image of the enlightened guru that attracted people.

    Osho knew the guru was a false concept, but he adopted it anyway, because if he had not, he never would have published his speeches.

    Yeah, he tricked you, but only because you wanted to be tricked. Yes, he lied to you, but only because you wanted to be lied too.

    Calder, you mean to tell all of us that you have never lied?

    Everybody lies. Ok. We are human. That is our instinct.

    Now, about Osho being a criminal. Calder, you mean you never smoked a joint, you never j-walked, you never exceeded the speed limit in your car? You mean to tell me, that you never committed a crime in the eyes of others, the law, but you personally did not think it was criminal?

    Did Osho make mistakes? I would say he made one mistake right after the other. In the end nothing that he tried helped anyone to become enlightened. Why? Calder, there I think you might have a point.

    Calder, you wrote, "His presence was a gift of birth, his brain, his DNA. It was a physical gift, not a spiritual gift earned by the practice of meditation over lifetimes of effort. He won the DNA consciousness lottery, that is all. He was born that way, and he only had to wait for his central nervous system to fully develop to become 'enlightened.' "

    Being enlightened myself, I have also come to a similar conclusion, but with one basic difference. I accept my conclusions as assumptions, not facts, because I can state that I really do not know.

    Calder, you wrote, "Osho-Rajneesh had good intentions, but he did not understand his own neurology and the fact that his gift was DNA based, not soul based, because there is no soul."

    If Osho did not understand this, I believe it was because he was misguided by all the enlightened people from the past, and their words that spoke to the contrary.

    The psychology of this is simple. I became enlightened, therefore, I assume others can become enlightened too.

    All enlightened people have simply been following logic.

    Unfortunately, logic does not always follow reality.

    Calder, you wrote, "...his gift was DNA based, not soul based, because there is no soul."

    These are assumptions on your part. It maybe DNA based, but there is a simple argument against that. There is no enlightenment that runs in my family. Nor am I aware, in history, of any enlightened relatives of those who have claimed enlightenment.

    My best guess is that the soul does play a role in the development of the brain, and therefore consciousness.

    If you want the truth, most things are guessing. We do not know much, so we all use our imaginations to fill gaps in what we do not know.

    Now, are you going to fault Osho for giving it his best shot, and trying to explain things to you and himself? He was just sharing his best guesses on a lot of things, so the fuck what!

    It pains you that life is not so easy. Like getting a guru, a father figure, who has all the answers.

    You make so many assumptions in your critique of Osho.

    Now, here is where I know you are lying. I am enlightened, and I can tell you that I do not know whether I have a soul or not. I presume you are not enlightened, that means you have less consciousness than I do, but you still presume to know that there is no soul.

    I guess that anyone can wrongly believe an assumption. Am I right Calder?

    Now, Calder, you are all pissed off because Osho thought it was better to lie, than to be lost to history, because none of his work would have been published.

    Yeah, he sacrificed a few people along the way.

    Here is what pisses me off, Calder, if Osho's enlightenment was biological, like you said, then you bitching and complaining is also biological, and you would be bitching and complaining about something whether or not you had ever heard of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh.

    It sounds like to me you have Generalized Anxiety Disorder. Go see a shrink. Get some chill pills. Get a real life.

    If your life turned out to be a disaster, it is your fault. I wasn't stupid enough to go see Osho. I knew he was lying. I knew the master/disciple relationship was a false relationship.

    I stayed home. I found myself a beautiful wife. The love she has given to me cannot compare to anything Osho could have given. I knew Osho could have never given that to me. What can only come from a woman.

    What the hell were you doing hanging around this guy anyway. Don't you like girls?

    Anonymous
    ____ _________

    The Ten Myths of Enlightened People

    1. Enlightened people experience God-Consciousness.
    2. Enlightened people are incarnations of God.
    3. Enlightened people do not suffer.
    4. Enlightened people are not influenced by imagination, and they only experience truth, reality and beauty.
    5. Enlightened people do not have desire.
    6. Enlightened people are infallible perfect beings.
    7. Enlightened people do not hate, and love everyone.
    8. The Enlightened person's mission in life is to save others, and otherwise bring humanity out of suffering and lead them to enlightenment.
    9. Enlightened people have infinite compassion, patience, benevolence and forgiveness for mankind.
    10. Enlightened people become enlightened through meditation.

    Reply
      p.r.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
      Date: Jan 24, 2008, 19:28

      .anonymouse ....

      .another aliASS ....

      .another pontificating priest ....

      .anonymouse ....

      ."First, I would like to say ...."

      ."What is my background ...."

      ."What is lying ...."

      ."Now I put forward to you ...."

      ."Ever ybody lies ...."

      ."Bein g enlightened myself ...."

      ."My best guess ...."

      ."If you want the truth ...."

      ."It pains you ...."

      ."Here is what pisses me off ...."

      ."It sounds like to me ...."

      ."I stayed home ...."

      .anonymouse ly ....

      .patronising, pious, pompous ....

      .anonymouse ....

      .a rodent of rhetoric ....

      .noxiously nibbling at 'his' ....

      .10 "myth'ed commandments ....

      Reply
        Anonymous: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
        Date: Jan 25, 2008, 14:41
        Fun!

        I enjoy!

        Speak more!

        Anonymous

        Reply
          p.r.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
          Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
          Date: Jan 26, 2008, 10:39

          .christopher ......................... ..... calder

          .anonymous ......................... .... anonymouse

          .fun ......................... ................. boring

          .enjoy ......................... .............. hate

          .speak more ......................... ..... listen less

          ........... a rounding of rodents rhetoric ...........

          .anonymous ......................... .... anonymouse

          .christoph ......................... ........ schnelle

          Reply
            Anonymous: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
            Date: Jan 26, 2008, 15:06
            Puppet!

            Speak!

            I enjoy!

            Watching you do whatever I say!

            A god-like feeling!

            In control.

            Of you.

            Anonymous

            Reply
              p.r.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
              Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
              Date: Jan 28, 2008, 11:37

              ."anonymous" .... was "nowhere" to be seen ....

              .until .... on Jan 23, 2008, 14.55 ....

              .succumbing to the pull of his strings by this webzine ....

              .he popped his pious pate out of his anonymous(e)hole ....

              .squeaked ....

              .and was "calderchristened&qu ot; anonymouse ....

              .
              .and then on Jan 25, 2008, 14.41 ....

              .his anonymouse nose aquiver ....

              .to the scents of the silences on this webzine ....

              .he squeaked again .... strangled squeaks of surrender ....


              .and then on Jan 26, 2008, 15.06 ....

              .still squeaking ....

              .yet stirred by the swirls of his strings by this webzine ....

              .he unconsciously uttered "his" name ....

              ."puppet&quo t; ....


              .an apt name for an animated anonymouse ....

              .puppet ....


              .self proclaimed ....

              .and squeaking in dilatory delirium ....

              .anonymouse ....

              .the pompously pirouetting puppet ....

              .calderously caught by its strings ....

              .in a web of webzine perpetuity ....

              .puppet



              Reply
                p.r.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
                Email:
                Date: Jan 28, 2008, 13:29
                Dear Sannyasins,

                First, I would like to say, that I bring a unique perspective to this argument; that of enlightenment. Yes, I am enlightened, but I also know that doesn't mean shit to any of you.

                What is my background? I am not going to tell you, because
                it wouldn't matter to you anyway.

                Osho did not leave us paradise. Osho did not leave us any enlightened people. If he did, come forward now and enter into this debate, or forever keep your fucking mouths shut!

                Calder, your basic argument against Osho is that he lied. Yes, I remember he lied, but let us put lying into perspective.

                What is lying? Lying is a human instinct. It evolved out of animal camouflage. When a tiger is stalking its prey, it uses camouflage to hunt. The hunt would not be successful without the camouflage. Without camouflage, the tiger would not exist.

                Now I put forward to you this theory. Without lying, Osho would not have existed, at least not to your consciousness.

                Calder, answer this question. Is what you are saying, that now you wished Osho had never entered your consciousness?

                Why did Osho lie? The man was 35 years old and a college professor. He spoke all over the country of India, speaking the truth. Do you know what it got him? nothing!

                Osho wanted to publish his speeches. He had no means to do that, so he had to devise a means. He saw people coming from the West. He saw people like John Lennon and George Harrison. He saw that it was the image of the enlightened guru that attracted people.

                Osho knew the guru was a false concept, but he adopted it anyway, because if he had not, he never would have published his speeches.

                Yeah, he tricked you, but only because you wanted to be tricked. Yes, he lied to you, but only because you wanted to be lied too.

                Calder, you mean to tell all of us that you have never lied?

                Everybody lies. Ok. We are human. That is our instinct.

                Now, about Osho being a criminal. Calder, you mean you never smoked a joint, you never j-walked, you never exceeded the speed limit in your car? You mean to tell me, that you never committed a crime in the eyes of others, the law, but you personally did not think it was criminal?

                Did Osho make mistakes? I would say he made one mistake right after the other. In the end nothing that he tried helped anyone to become enlightened. Why? Calder, there I think you might have a point.

                Calder, you wrote, "His presence was a gift of birth, his brain, his DNA. It was a physical gift, not a spiritual gift earned by the practice of meditation over lifetimes of effort. He won the DNA consciousness lottery, that is all. He was born that way, and he only had to wait for his central nervous system to fully develop to become 'enlightened.' "

                Being enlightened myself, I have also come to a similar conclusion, but with one basic difference. I accept my conclusions as assumptions, not facts, because I can state that I really do not know.

                Calder, you wrote, "Osho-Rajneesh had good intentions, but he did not understand his own neurology and the fact that his gift was DNA based, not soul based, because there is no soul."

                If Osho did not understand this, I believe it was because he was misguided by all the enlightened people from the past, and their words that spoke to the contrary.

                The psychology of this is simple. I became enlightened, therefore, I assume others can become enlightened too.

                All enlightened people have simply been following logic.

                Unfortunately, logic does not always follow reality.

                Calder, you wrote, "...his gift was DNA based, not soul based, because there is no soul."

                These are assumptions on your part. It maybe DNA based, but there is a simple argument against that. There is no enlightenment that runs in my family. Nor am I aware, in history, of any enlightened relatives of those who have claimed enlightenment.

                My best guess is that the soul does play a role in the development of the brain, and therefore consciousness.

                If you want the truth, most things are guessing. We do not know much, so we all use our imaginations to fill gaps in what we do not know.

                Now, are you going to fault Osho for giving it his best shot, and trying to explain things to you and himself? He was just sharing his best guesses on a lot of things, so the fuck what!

                It pains you that life is not so easy. Like getting a guru, a father figure, who has all the answers.

                You make so many assumptions in your critique of Osho.

                Now, here is where I know you are lying. I am enlightened, and I can tell you that I do not know whether I have a soul or not. I presume you are not enlightened, that means you have less consciousness than I do, but you still presume to know that there is no soul.

                I guess that anyone can wrongly believe an assumption. Am I right Calder?

                Now, Calder, you are all pissed off because Osho thought it was better to lie, than to be lost to history, because none of his work would have been published.

                Yeah, he sacrificed a few people along the way.

                Here is what pisses me off, Calder, if Osho's enlightenment was biological, like you said, then you bitching and complaining is also biological, and you would be bitching and complaining about something whether or not you had ever heard of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh.

                It sounds like to me you have Generalized Anxiety Disorder. Go see a shrink. Get some chill pills. Get a real life.

                If your life turned out to be a disaster, it is your fault. I wasn't stupid enough to go see Osho. I knew he was lying. I knew the master/disciple relationship was a false relationship.

                I stayed home. I found myself a beautiful wife. The love she has given to me cannot compare to anything Osho could have given. I knew Osho could have never given that to me. What can only come from a woman.

                What the hell were you doing hanging around this guy anyway. Don't you like girls?

                Anonymous
                ____ _________

                The Ten Myths of Enlightened People

                1. Enlightened people experience God-Consciousness.
                2. Enlightened people are incarnations of God.
                3. Enlightened people do not suffer.
                4. Enlightened people are not influenced by imagination, and they only experience truth, reality and beauty.
                5. Enlightened people do not have desire.
                6. Enlightened people are infallible perfect beings.
                7. Enlightened people do not hate, and love everyone.
                8. The Enlightened person's mission in life is to save others, and otherwise bring humanity out of suffering and lead them to enlightenment.
                9. Enlightened people have infinite compassion, patience, benevolence and forgiveness for mankind.
                10. Enlightened people become enlightened through meditation.

                Reply
      Sumit Sharma: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      Email: summitgautam@yahoo.com
      Date: Jun 14, 2008, 1:10
      Dear Anonymous,
      Not one point that you made on Osho in the context of his lying or his behavior or enlightenment is something out of the ordinary. These are basic things which we 'un-enlightened' people also know. So with your perceived enlightenment you should have helped us a bit more on this matter? Why don't you wear a t-shirt and that says 'I am as enlightened as Osho' and stand at Times Square in NYC and I will feed you crumbs. Bloody idiot don't proclaim your enlightenment again and again because the only one who agrees with you on that is you yourself. Also stop asking others to get a life as you need to get yourself a life. First get yourself a name and we can speak of enlightenment later, bloody cowara hding behind a cloak of anonymity!

      Reply
      URJAADVITIYA: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      Email: urjaosho@rediffmail.com
      Date: May 22, 2014, 11:35
      only fact & true & forever message that:-
      Enlightened osho said simply talk but all osho
      follower and divotee can not follow it, also osho commune...osho said never ask age, relegious, education, money and human status but osho center and osho commune and osho other ashram are worrying about these, .......No body understand the Osho because all wants become like osho means Rajneesh ....o.k. I am not enlightened but only AAM ADMI

      Reply
    jayadev: Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: jaya7dev@gmal.com
    Date: Feb 16, 2008, 14:46
    such simple matters ,such big arguments,

    may be there is a million alfabets in this whole website still those perfect words which could convey the real meaning was not furnished..

    his concepts still people could only dream about.

    oh i wish i could see him
    that great man
    the legend.

    Reply
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    Reply
shunyo: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: shrimayank@hotmail.com
Date: Jun 6, 2005, 15:14
Hi,
I know this post hardly deserves a play under this topic but I wanted to share my experience with some people I have known thru this post.
I 've been reading osho and other mystics since a long time and have also practices meditation to a point where the unusual has become usual to me. I thought I was moving in the right direction to know the ultimate thruth. But finally came across this article http://home.att.net/~medi tation/Osho.html by i dont know who, this has changed my belief into a mental disorder and all I think I have experienced till date seems like self hypnosis. I am standing in the middle of no where. Materialistic life on one side where I work with a leading Game development company and the spiritual life where I m to believe which is not present. I feel the need of a Guru. Someone true and real. Coz I ve been reading Osho, havent met him before . or the belief or he being the one can go low anytime, I call it easy to believe someone and easy to not believe. The information plays the part which is missing in my case. I need help before I take a decision which will take me in the wrong direction. Is he still alive in anyone of u, who cud be let me know what is written in the article is true or not?
HELP me

Reply
    Devakrishna: RE:RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    WWW: www.giollomarco.vze.com
    Date: Jun 6, 2005, 16:05
    hi Shrimayank
    i been sannyas since 1976
    i was physically around osho all along until his death


    don't worry about this article
    that's Christopher Calder's article

    he is not a sannyas,
    he was NEVER there,
    so he does not have a fucking clue about anything, he never meditated and he mixes real historical stuff with his distorted judjements and fantasies
    making a huge distorted soup and confusing people like you

    i don't even want to go trough this article
    ... wich is on line sinse ages ...
    point per point
    to tell you what is truth and wath is not.




    with Osho this is happening all the time since he started teaching up to the point they had to kill him with thallium and radiations when he was put on jail like they did with Jesus, Mansoor, Socrates, and many other

    Shrimayank
    trus t your feeling about Osho
    and keep going with your meditations
    that's all i can say to you


    with much love and respect
    devakrishna

    h ttp://www.otoons.com

    Reply
      Christopher Calder: RE:RE:RE:Report ing From The Osho Resort
      WWW: home.att.net/~meditation
      Email: calderhome@yahoo.com
      Date: Sep 6, 2005, 8:24
      I was never there? I was Rajneesh's second Western sannyasin just behind Ma Yoga Prem. Check out a first addition copy of "The Silent Explosion." I came up with the title and wrote the introduction. My sannyasin name was Swami Krishna Christ.

      Osho people are the most dishonest and irresponsible people in the world. If your meditation does not even bring you basic honesty, then what is your meditation worth?

      I have a more recent essay on "The Ridiculous Teachings of Wrong Way Rajneesh" at:
      http://home.att.net/ ~meditation/wrong-way.htm l

      Regards, Christopher Calder

      Reply
        devakrishna: RE:RE:RE:RE:Rep orting From The Osho Resort
        WWW: www.otoons.com
        Date: Sep 7, 2005, 19:46
        my god!
        you really pissed with Osho!
        Still after all these years!
        What appened?

        "The Ridiculous Teachings of Wrong Way Rajneesh"

        whatz up Krishna Christ?


        devakrishna

        Reply
          Christopher Calder: RE:RE:RE:RE:RE: Reporting From The Osho Resort
          WWW: home.att.net/~meditation
          Email: calderhome@yahoo.com
          Date: Sep 7, 2005, 20:08
          Devakrishna,

          You have used the usual trick. You ignore the issue that you made a false post, a lie, and you then deviously try to portray my interest in truth as a character flaw. Truth has great value, and you have lied several times just on the posts presented here. Osho was never poisoned by the US Government, and that was fully covered on my Web page.
          -------
          "The rumor that Rajneesh was poisoned with thallium by operatives of the United States Government is entirely fictional and contradicted by undeniable fact. One of the obvious symptoms of thallium poisoning is dramatic hair loss within seven days of exposure. Rajneesh died with a full beard and no exceptional baldness other than ordinary male pattern baldness at the top of his head. Radiation poisoning, another fictional cause of his illness, also causes dramatic hair loss."
          -------
          As I have stated many times before, all Osho people are dishonest. You have to be fundamentally dishonest to still follow such a devious teacher who misguided so many people. Children do not understand the difference between fantasy and reality. That is the problem with what is left of the Osho cult. Those who remain in it are mental children who ignore facts and lie to maintain false myths. Myths get you nowhere, and Osho people will never face up to the facts. The moment they do, they are no longer Osho people.

          see also "Do you have a soul" at:
          http://home.att.net/ ~meditation/soul.html

          Regards, Christopher Calder


          Reply
            devakrishna: RE:RE:RE:RE:RE: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
            Date: Sep 8, 2005, 17:26
            why are you so concerned with osho and his people?
            why so much charge with the man and with his friends?
            do you feel superior to him?
            do you feel superior to his friends?
            how can you put everybody in the same bag?
            it seems to me a have lak of basic intelligence.
            why so much energy to prove osho wrong?

            i am just wondering ...
            what happened to you?

            devakrishna

            Reply
            devakrishna: And because the coward do not answer
            WWW: www.otoons.com/gossips/disha.html
            Date: Sep 12, 2005, 13:29
            check about Disha's death,and see ...
            where your dishonest sannyasing are ...

            http://www.otoons. com/gossips/disha.html


            http://www.rupda.com/dis ha/

            probably you know her from Poona one, if it is true you also where a sannyasin and you where there, cause i can still not belive what happened to you, having so much energy wrighting so much garbage about Osho and pissing on everybody

            regards?
            wh at do you mean by it?


            Devakrishna

            Reply
        Nishkam: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
        WWW: ulab.sannyas-on.net
        Email: nishkam@sannyas-on.net
        Date: Sep 16, 2005, 11:52
        Christopher, I feel sorry for your words. I think it is not very honest to show all Osho people as being the same. For me every Osho sannyasin is different. Here is a nice quote from the card I just took
        ------
        Detachment

        Go on feeling something in you that is the same no matter what happens on the periphery. When someone is insulting you, focus yourself to the point where you are just listening to him--not doing anything, not reacting, just listening. He is insulting you. And then someone is praising you--just listen. Insult-praise, honor-dishonor, just listen. Your periphery will get disturbed. Look at that also, don't try to change it. Look at it; remain deep in your center, looking from there. You will have a detachment which is not forced, which is spontaneous, which is natural. And once you have the feeling of the natural detachment, nothing can disturb you.
        ------
        If you would like to share your story I invite you to do it in this webzine. Just drop me an email.
        Love. Nishkam

        Reply
        P.R.: RE:RE:RE:RE:Rep orting From The Osho Resort
        Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
        Date: Oct 5, 2005, 12:46

        devakrishnachristcalder

        " you were never there "

        " i was second western sannyasin "

        you were never there

        Reply
          Christopher Calder: RE:RE:RE:RE:RE: Reporting From The Osho Resort
          WWW: home.att.net/~meditation
          Email: calderhome@yahoo.com
          Date: Oct 8, 2005, 18:47
          All Osho people hide from the truth. Rajneesh's/Osho's teaching were wrong and failed because he did not understand himself. Consciousness is a biological phenomena, not a spiritual phenomena. Below is a essay which explains this clearly.

          The Brain and Meditation

          by Adithya K.

          The brain is essential to human life, and when the brain dies, the entire physical body dies along with it. Even under deep sleep, the brain is active and aware, and able to direct functions as and when necessary. For example, the brain may create a fearful dream to wake you up if your body is threatened by danger, such as a lack of oxygen due to a difficulty in breathing. The central function of the human brain is awareness. Awareness is required to know things like boundaries, size, limits, identifications, and the sense of self and the sense of the other. Awareness itself has no intrinsic size, boundary limits, or any other attributes of its own. Awareness is required to know all attributes, but awareness itself can be nothing but just plain awareness. That is the pure awareness of meditation.

          The sense of time, the beginning and the end, the birth and the death, requires memory. Awareness always precedes memory. Awareness serves as the background, the base for memory, and memory cannot have any trace of its absolute beginning or final end. This makes awareness feel eternal.

          In reality, we experience everything: all the sights, sounds, visions, and smells of life inside the brain. Everything we feel and see are signals presented inside the brain, from neuron to neuron, in a web of billions of brain cells. When you look at images of distant stars and galaxies, those pictures are formed inside us, not outside of us. When you realign your focus on the very background of consciousness during meditation, you clearly see that all outside images are really inside images.

          The sensation 'I am Body' is itself an effort of the brain. Brain is our intimate personal reality, not the body. The brain is able to conjure up the idea of the body by repeated practice and focus. The brain can easily convince itself of being anything it wants to be. After all, there is no one else inside you to question it. The brain is the one that says �I am this!,� as well as being the final arbitrator of its own validity.

          Some may focus on a flower and convince themselves that they have experienced "flower consciousness." Others go further and convince themselves that they are a great savior, a saint, or a heroic world leader. Given enough focus and practice, the brain can convince itself of anything, because the brain is the final judge and jury of our perception of reality. Thus, we all live in different brain worlds of our own creation, and when those worlds collide, conflict and wars arise.

          The feeling of solidity of the body is generated by the brain constantly sending and receiving signals to and from different organs. The more frequent and stronger the signals, the more solid the body feels. Mediation is a way to relax the brain and quiet down its constant communication with the body, and it reduces the frequency of thoughts. As the brain relaxes and creates less noise and activity, the feeling 'I am the body' starts to dissolve.

          Scientists now understand through magnetic resonance imaging testing (functional MRI testing) that the part of the brain which gives us a sense of location in time and space is less active during intense meditation. With no sense of location, consciousness loses its boundaries and subjectively feels both infinite and timeless. The body may seem to completely disappear, leaving only pure consciousness in its place. That is death of the 'I.' During deep dreamless sleep, the same dissolution of the 'I' happens, but there is no consciousness to experience it.

          The feeling of clutter we often feel inside ourselves is the brain working too hard, thinking too many thoughts. The pragmatic working brain requires concentration on the utilitarian tasks of life. In meditation, peace and relaxation rule and the brain doing nothing expands its sense of being into the whole universe. Only the core, essential life-saving functions of the brain continue during the deepest meditation.

          Stress is the brain’s attempt to drive the body from one situation to another desired situation through the pathway of time. Thus, if you end desire, the acceptance of 'what is' brings an end to stress and creates the sensation of eternal timelessness. When the brain uproots its self-created need to do, there is total relaxation and peace. Finally, the brain is at ease and resting in its own essential being.

          Contentment is happiness. Joy is the content of the brain full of energy. Oneness and love come when the brain stops continuously promoting the sensation of 'I am this.' Bliss flows automatically when the brain loses any narrow sense of self-identification. What is left is billions of neurons flowering energy in the brain's primordial form. When the brain perceives no feelings of subject and object, the brain experiences an indescribable fullness, and emptiness. Devoid of object, yet completely full, the brain goes deeper than the sensation of 'I am!' There is no what, no which, no how, and no where;...as Hindus say, "not this, not that."

          Some may renounce the ordinary life and sacrifice job, society, and everything that requires effort to experience the depths of meditation. Reclusive monks and sadhus may prefer to sit in caves rather than make the brain work more than what they feel is necessary. Those who go deep in meditation often proclaim to the world that they are "enlightened," but that enlightenment is simply a brain gifted with the ability to consciously remain at rest. Mediation then becomes their default state, rather than a practice and effort. The identity dissolution of deep sleep now pervades all their waking hours. Relaxation, peace, and joy are the natural rewards of continuous meditation.

          The brain stresses and pushes the body and society to achieve its goals. It must constantly remember its goals in order to know what action is needed next to accomplish its agenda through the pathway of time. The brain may resent the present moment, the �what is,’ because it has not yet achieved its victory, which is not the 'what is' in its present form. When desire drops, so does the goal, the struggle, the conflict, and the dissatisfaction. With no fight against 'what is,' there is no specific expectation from life, no agenda, and that ends what Buddha called 'suffering.' That is the end of 'dukkha.' Even after all of this, however, the brain is still just a brain.



          Reply
        Sarlo: RE: Reporting From The Osho Resort
        Email:
        Date: Oct 9, 2005, 18:41
        Okay

        I don't know if this is the first time Calder has come out with his sannyas name since putting up his scurrilous site, but it is good. Those of us who might be concerned with the authenticity of his objections to Osho have a right to consider his background.

        First, an excerpt from a letter from Osho to Sw Krishna Christ, in answer to his complaint about the name, reproduced from A Cup of Tea (letter 327):

        The ego is the seriousness, the disease,
        and the tao, the egoless existence,
        is the bliss, the ecstasy.
        That is why I have given you a name so absurd!

        But I have given it to you knowingly.
        I have given it to you so that you may
        never be identified with it.
        The name is so absurd
        that you will have to remain
        nameless and nobody behind it,
        and the name is such that
        not only others but you yourself
        will be able to laugh at it.
        Swami Krishna Christ!

        =-=-=-=-=

        I wrote elsewhere about KC / CC but thus far no specific feedback so i thought i'd try here as well:

        I had remembered a story about this ridiculous name, but associated it with another legal name, not Chris Calder but a German name, Walter Pfuetze, and i thought this is a pretty silly name too, Krishna Christ is not so much more ridiculous. A German friend told me that Pfeutze means puddle. Hilarious!

        Does anyone else know something about him? Is my memory accurate? I ran across this story about six or seven years ago and was quite struck by it, i think it made the rounds of Sannyas List or maybe a private bulk email. Is it possible that KC is not really CC and he is just making that up? It would be nice to expose that.

        Or even if true, perhaps this name is Calder's real beef. How could Osho do this to him?

        On the face of it Calder's main beef with Osho is that he didn't tell the truth. Osho's explanation of this is good enough for me, that he is yelling in our ears that our house, ie our self-prison, is on fire and we have to wake up and run out into the open sky. When we do that, we will see that the house wasn't really on fire but we will still appreciate his helping to wake us up.

        Obviously this is a matter of taste and won't appeal to everyone, but where is Calder's energy for this coming from to continue this crusade? What is the Big Deal?

        Sarlo



        Reply
          Christopher Calder: RE:RE: Reporting From The Osho Resort
          WWW: home.att.net/~meditation
          Email: calderhome@yahoo.com
          Date: Oct 10, 2005, 5:12
          Sarlo,

          So truth is unimportant? You say my site is "scurrilous" but you know it is all true and you know that you cannot debate the facts because they are real, proven, and on the record. Osho people can only insult, dance around issues, use childish language, and whine about those who tell the truth. The Osho cult has become a cult of liars.

          When I first landed in India on November 19, 1970, my goal was to find truth, not to become the slave to a cult that had no respect for the real facts of life. Cheap thrills and communal group-think are not truth. You may feel better in a superficial way being part of a big lie cult, but that is not really going to help you or the world in the long run. You can use group energy to hide from the world, but the world will always overtake you in the end.

          My site is for those who care about what really is and for those who have no interest in being a secondhand person, tied to a cult leader forever.

          Christopher Calder


          Reply
          devakrishna: RE:RE: Reporting From The Osho Resort
          Date: Oct 11, 2005, 18:49
          thatz exactly my question.
          what happen to KC/CC or WP (puddle)?
          what was the trigger?
          why so much energy to shit on Osho 4 30 years continuosly?

          that must hurt him inside somewhere ...


          devakrishna

          Reply
            loslarvati: RE: THANKS TO MR.CARVER
            Email: loslarvati@hotmail.com
            Date: Oct 17, 2005, 16:04
            THANKS TO CHRISTOPHER CALVER

            I am not a sannyasin. I m living in the osho way of life, some kind of. Anyway I like this site. It can approach me to osho people and give me the flavour of the man.
            I would like to say something about CC affair.
            Christopher is a present for me, and I think Osho would enjoy him very much.
            What CC is saying is a mixture of his experience with osho, his experience with himself, with interesting personal thoughts, theories, and kind of jealousy and paranoia.
            He says so many differents things that is difficult for me to speak about without making parts.
            1. EPITHETS:
            He says he is a follower of Rajneesh early years. He says he feels disgusted about what became the man later: A farce.
            But CC forget osho is completely agree with him:
            �All what I say is not the true, is only a poem: a poem that wants to help you to grown.�
            So, why to become angry with Christopher when he repeats and �proves� what osho himself have said yet. All that he can say about osho, osho has said it yet: �I m an ignorant�, �I never say the true�, �I have the most luxurious life any man had never�…
            2.PERSONAL HISTORY:
            About what CC says about personals accusations against Osho, well, that surprise me, but I didn t meet the man. Is hard to believe, for sure, but… Anyway, I think the point is that Osho is not an idol for me, and I think he didn’t want to become one for nobody. This is important, because an idol has to be investigated, cause he is what he sell. But osho didnt sell to me nothing: he offer to me tools to find my true inside of me. He helped me, and I cannot be upset if somebody who help me was not perfect. I don’t care! I don’t idolatrise him!
            That doesn t mean I don t care about the true history of the man. Is just that the history is not very important for me: I cannot be upset with Osho if he did something against his own way of life.
            So Christopher is accusing the manr far far away where I am. I see him exiting himself down down in the earth. My impression is that CC has enough problem yet. That s why I m not going to become angry with him, even if his mind would enjoy my angriness. I remember osho words when he was asked about people who were against him:
            �I just don t care. They are free to think what they want and to refuse my way of life. I also refuse their. But there is a little diference between us: I am not worry about them, but they are worry about me. That’s interesting.�
            3.THE OSHO’ S DIDACTIC WAY:
            "What you tell them is true, but what I tell them (the useful lies) is good for them." Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh 1975. Rajneesh calculated that the majority of the earth's population was on such a low level of consciousness that they could not understand nor tolerate the real truths. CC.
            This words prove that CC didn t understand the osho way of teaching. How can osho calculated such thing if he repeats all the time that there is no true to say. There is a true that cannot be transfer, that there is. So, why to speak if the true cannot be transfer? This is a question osho answered many times for us: �I speak not to transfer the true, I speak only to transfer the thirsty of true�. That was his way: he never answered to a question (there is not solutions because there is not problems!) he answer to who asked this question, saying what he think was better for him. This was his way: �don t think about me like a guru or a spiritual guide; think of me more like a psychologue�.
            4.THE WAY OF THE SCIENTIST.
            CC have said that Osho don t know himself, because all osho’experiences have a scientist explanation. The meditation is a biologic affaire, he assures, and the satory experience can be translate to chemistry and physic.
            CC see there a problem. Is strange because I m not able to see any problem. If to enjoy meditation you need a scientific explanation that calm your rationalism down, go ahead and find it. There is no problem at all.
            Science can help people like CC to understand themselves. Intelectuals always need a reason to enjoy life. I know that because I am an intellectual.
            But Science shouldn’t be used to destroy individuality, to destroy other ways of self-knowledge, because Science in itself (like Osho in himself) doesn t have any value. The only value is the personal experience. The experience is sacred. Nobody should come and say: �look, your experience is not right, look, I have proves! Your happiness is a farce: stop it right now!�
            But there is people like that. There is people who think Science is more important than any individual. People who think like that are not necessarily scientists, but for sure egocentric intellectuals.
            Charles Darwin, one of the great scientists in the history, said in his autobiography: �I understood early that Science was not an objective matter. Behind ciensce there was always the scientist.�
            Osho resumed: �Mathematics cannot explain the mathematician�.
            5. EGO WAR.
            Intellectual people have big problems to feel ourselves. And most of us would die before to admit the possibility of the existence of something like enlightment, something they never experimented. I know it well: I had a lot of problem to approach meditation. I had to go in the middle of a cleaning process. It was hard to empty my mind: I was overcrowd of ideas, and this is not the best way to enter in the dancing way of life.
            �What s up with CC? Why all this energy against Osho?�, ask somebody in the site. He must know. I cannot know, I can only guess. Cristopher must have tried, with osho or in his own way, but he could not enter in meditation. I guess this, because is the only explanation I can imagine. He could feel it maybe, and leave intellectuality to try this new way. But he could not enter in deeply. He fail. And his mind was, for sure, upset about it. Then he start the battle against his spiritual father. The intelectual warrior came back to destroy what he could not enjoy.
            CC has started a war of ego against his master. Because his ego could not become a sannyasin, because a sannyasin cannot be �the best sannyasin�. Each sannyasin is �perfect� in his individuality, and the ego need to fight, to fight to get anything but to fight.
            Reading CC I see clearly this fight. A completely chaotic fight. His arguments were sometimes very intelligent, sometimes very childish. There are a lot of non interesting things in Cris article (he has in a way some strangely conventional fears: �osho had sex with many young women the half aged than him�… So, what s the problem with this?). There are otherwise others that are very interesting: what he says, per example, about dynamic meditation seems to me very reasonable.
            6. DINAMIC MEDITATION:
            I m agree with CC: is too hard! I m myself 30 years old and in very good health condition, but ten minutes jumping holding the arms (phase 3) is too much, and for sure could be dangerous for some people. Cris says it wasn t like this in the beginning, that osho change it in the last years. Cris says osho did it with a sadist motivation. Maybe somebody can tell me about that.
            6. THANKS TO CC:
            But anyway, I have to thank Christopher to bring me the possibility of checking myself. Because, in fact, what s the point? CC is touching my doubt. This is the present he brings to me. Because sometimes is difficult to say if I still doubting. Do I doubt, or do I not doubt? Sometimes the doubt is so deep that is very difficult to see, and more if we are sourunded by positive condition, people who think like us, etc. But here he comes: Cristopher is here, helping me in order I improve myself. Thanks a lot.
            I want you to be sure I am not ironic:
            Cristopher, thanks a lot.
            I love you.
            J.L.Larvati.


            Reply
              Christopher Calder: RE:RE: THANKS TO MR.CARVER
              WWW: home.att.net/~meditation
              Email: calderhome@yahoo.com
              Date: Oct 19, 2005, 5:37
              My frustration is not with Rajneesh/Osho, who is dead and long gone, but with Osho people who just cannot tell the truth and lack the higher brain function needed to even understand the value of truth. I get letters every week from Osho people, one crazier than the next. A recent e-mail suggested that Osho disciples become �spiritual terrorists� to fund a new commune with illegal and possibly violent gangster activity. If Acharya Rajneesh could see the quality of the disciples he left behind he would be even more critical of them than me!

              If my Web site did not exist, how would the general public get the historical facts about Osho that the cult wants to cover up? The Web is full of phony Osho propaganda sites that simply ignore all the scandals and the history of the cult. Most of the tell-all books are out of print and hard to find. My aim has been to tell the truth and publish the facts FOR FREE on the Web.

              I never even think of Rajneesh/Osho unless I get a letter from an Osho person and either answer it or delete it, depending on how crazy it is. My motivation is just to set the historical record straight so that the mistakes of the Osho cult are not repeated again and again for all eternity. Unfortunately, fools never learn from history and thus America repeats Vietnam in Iraq. I spend most of my computer time fighting George W. Bush and American imperialism, not what is left of the raggedy Osho cult. I have never met George W. Bush, but I oppose his teaching and philosophy very strongly. Does this mean I am jealous of Bush or that I have some personal attachment to him? No! It means I am pro-earth and want this planet to be a better place without cults, without wars, and without arrogant nations like America that thinks it owns the world and can break international law any time it pleases, just because it can get away with it.

              Will the next big cult use germ warfare as the Osho cult did, chemical warfare as the Aum Shinrikyo cult did, or perhaps the next religious cult will graduate to nuclear warfare? Who knows? If human beings never learn that blind and unquestioning obedience to one �perfect Master� or leader is dangerous and anti-evolutionary, then we will only have more disasters.

              Christopher Calder


              Reply
                prem: RE:RE:RE: THANKS TO MR.CARVER
                Email: prem_anmol97@yahoo.com
                Date: Oct 19, 2005, 9:58
                Dear Mr. CC,

                All I have for you is a sense of gratitude and love, like our beloved Larvati has... not because you have successfully exposed him, but simply because you are doing his job, if looked upon carefully....

                I think I heard him somewhere saying... that once somebody is here he has to be here either way...

                Thanks for bringing that article on the web to help people get out of the web......

                with love.....

                prem


                Reply
                P.R.: RE:RE:RE: THANKS TO MR.CARVER
                Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
                Date: Oct 20, 2005, 17:04
                so you say

                " I spend most of my computer time fighting "

                you are " nowhere " to be seen

                www4.dr-rath-foundation.o rg/The_Hague/complaint/

                www.welltv.com

                www.i ahf.com

                www.holistiche althtopics.com/HMG/codex2 .html

                krishna .. christ .. christopher .. calder .. or ....

                " you " are nowhere to be seen

                " i spend most of my computer time fighting "

                so you say

                Reply
                Analy H.:
                WWW: help please!!!
                Email: anijah1@yahoo.com
                Date: Jul 14, 2008, 18:05
                i'm lossing my husband for this crazy religious cult. Could you please send more info about Osho.
                txs

                Reply
                Papu Trivedi: The next OSHO cult
                WWW: nithyatales.webs.com
                Email: paputrivedi@gmail.com
                Date: Jan 8, 2010, 21:03
                Dear friend,

                The next big OSHO cult is already born and thriving quite well. The cult leader is Paramahamsa Nithyananda. He is using OSHO's logo, discourses, jokes you name it. But the dude has gotten smarter - so he uses Indian Hindu temples as cover in the US.

                You can read more about his antics here:

                http://nithyatal es.webs.com
                http://nithy ananda-cult.blogspot.com


                Enjoy!

                Reply
    Christoph Schnelle: Help
    Email: aaqws@hotmail.com
    Date: Jan 2, 2006, 2:51
    http://lanternlit.blogspo t.com/2006/01/osho-decept ively-harmful-guru_01.htm l

    Reply
    Rafael: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: rafaelgasparello@gmail.com
    Date: Mar 22, 2011, 16:31
    Dear friend. Does really matter if the article is true or not? if you are in a existencial quest you are losing your time. Just live. Other people lived without know what this life means, but they lived,they did everything without any illumination,they died, and so .Why we want to be better than these people. just live,forget even osho, leave him and go to your life.

    Reply
    Bhuwan: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: Sharmabhuwan35@yahoo.com
    Date: Oct 2, 2011, 9:02
    When u read osho then you are deep down in your consciouess u always realise yes. U read him then that time u realise something which is for u. There is very need for it in your life. U r in no tense. When u follow up his technique then it goes your life. Your consciouess cry, sometime happy thanks him heartly. His intentions seems clear. Now you r with root, no false, no outer impressive and excitefull thought can shake u. U didn't watch this when criticize was criticizing him terrible state his man can be easily seen. No doubt his very konwlegble then only he could distrub your mind. It is simple mind policy if someone is speaking in revenge or tense then only other feel tense. If he is speaking truth then u may feel little inside bt not tense you r not connected with osho or existence deep down. That's y u felt tense. Don't worry now existence has shaked hand with. No, need of worry. Happiness and full fill ment is entering in you because it is so slow as u can't realise it instantly. U wiÂ?Â? complete once then u will c?¶me to know. Ok enjoy now. Ha ha ha ha ha hi hi hi hu hu hu hu

    Reply
    Bhuwan: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: Sharmabhuwan35@yahoo.com
    Date: Oct 2, 2011, 9:06
    When u read osho then you are deep down in your consciouess u always realise yes. U read him then that time u realise something which is for u. There is very need for it in your life. U r in no tense. When u follow up his technique then it goes your life. Your consciouess cry, sometime happy thanks him heartly. His intentions seems clear. Now you r with root, no false, no outer impresstion and excitefull thought can shake u. U didn't watch this when criticize was criticizing him terrible state his man can be easily seen. No doubt his very konwlegble then only he could distrub your mind. It is simple mind policy if someone is speaking in revenge or tense then only other feel tense. If he is speaking truth then u may feel little inside bt not tense you r not connected with osho or existence deep down. That's y u felt tense. Don't worry now existence has shaked hand with. No, need of worry. Happiness and full fill ment is entering in you because it is so slow as u can't realise it instantly. U wiÂ?Â? complete once then u will c?¶me to know. Ok enjoy now. Ha ha ha ha ha hi hi hi hu hu hu hu

    Reply
    : RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: Vladimirdimkovik@gmail.com
    Date: Feb 27, 2012, 5:11
    I am no guru, i never was. But i have experience in enlightenment, i have been initiated, and everything that i speak here is by my experience, not by some learned stuff.
    you can;t find the truth all by yourself , you must first find a competent guru, that will lead you to your inner guru first, and only then you will be able to experience enlightenment...
    only a living guru can show you the way, no OSHO, NO BUDHA, so slow down with books, because those are just words,and they will do nothing better... Once you experience enlightenment, or find the truth, the ultimate truth, or whatsoever you call it, only then you will gain help from books, because only then the words you read will resonate into your being, and only then you will experience the meaning of them. before that they will just be words you will remember , or not. Don't attach to books, because osho himself said that what is truth now, doesn't necessary mean it will still be the truth tomorrow , because things change, nothing stays the same...
    Osho himself never wrote any book, his disciples did. Everything you reed, must first come trough your being, and if it resonates, it is, if not, it is not the truth anymore , or it never was. Yes the books HELP, but only if you know the alphabet , and The initiation is the alphabet of spiritual books, without it, you will never know is it truth or not.
    If you meditate by yourself, without the look into your very self,without the initiation from the guru, without a glance of view into enlightenment, you will be calm, or not, you will perhaps be happy, you will perhaps come to the void, which is the door to enlightenment but you will never be able to open it all by your self .
    You don;t even have to meditate or read books after the initiation, it will come here and there, your will be to recognize it.
    IT is the beginning of enlightened life, because it is here, you are aware of it, and one thought comes,you attach to it, and the next come, and the truth is gone, it is that hard, and that is why people meditate 40 years in a cages , to train them self , to be enlightened.

    I hope this will help you ;)

    Reply
Jivan Satyajit: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: jivan_satyajit@yahoo.co.in
Date: Oct 19, 2005, 12:28
Hi Christopher Calder, lets play argu-argu :D

Your earlier article "Osho, Bhagwan Rajneesh, and the Lost Truth" was whatever strange and ridiculous might be, but kind of honest testimony of a disciple, who disagrees with his once master.

In my understanding it is utterly nonsense to pick few statements from Osho's more than 8500 hours of talks and evaluate him based on that. I can’t believe that a person like you, who knows him since ages, can do it. And funny thing is Osho himself never denied being contradictory, on a contrary he glorified it.

Whatever Osho spoke in his lifetime is well documented and all of us have our own understanding to accept or reject him, partially or completely. For me, he explained my questions to me; that’s all what matters. How he conducted his life and commune, what was his relations with his disciples etc, are just irrelevant.

Your hell-bend fight against post-Osho is so funny. It is more like, I enjoy sunbath under the soft morning sun; when the day grows and sun starts burning and I start accusing, shouting at sun, start collecting facts that how wrong the high temperature is for the humanity etc. I'll prefer to shift to the shade and thankfully goodbye the morning softness.

You might know how bad person Newton was? He was so infamous for using his office to harm the efforts of other scientists of his time. Does that really make Newton's law any less important? The same way how Osho's life goes doesn’t' really make his talks any less enlightening. It also depends how we see it; just say, the same Iraqi struggle is a freedom fight against occupant army for many, and it is terrorist insurgency for many others. May be Osho's calling himself Bhagwan (God) was an neurotic utterance form a maniac for you, but it is a brave revelation and guidance for many others to break the very definition of God.

Disagreeing with someone is very perfect, but knowingly misguiding is dishonest. For many things I disagree with him. In his view, being economically free and fulfilling all basic needs, the western society is ready to ask higher question. He assumed there may be an explosion of enlighten persons in countries like USA. But I don't think so; it is always individuals, east or west.
As he said somewhere "These all talks I am giving you are just toys"; when I am not agree, that toy is not for me (remember my agree is a toys also).

As oppose to the previous one, your new article "The Ridiculous Teachings of Wrong Way Rajneesh" is just a bunch of jokes. What are your arguments there?
Rajneesh once stated that "India does not need high technology."
How hilarious it is! His major disagreement with Gandhi was that, Gandhi is anti-technology. This guy, who is vigorously advocating, test-tube baby, cloning and all possible advance of science, back in 60's, when no one could even imagine to say yes; you are using this argument against him! How amazing. Here I am not trying to say that he did not say the above, but the context is completely missing from your article.
The other argument about "Tantra", do you really know what is "Tantra"? Your statement "Tantric practice of parents having sex with their own children". Are you out of your mind? Do you know there is not even a translation for the word "incest" in Hindi or any other Indian language, leave aside having sexual relation with own children?
Your another argument, "Rajneesh once stated that all wars would end by the year 2000 as the world would become so interdependent that war would be politically unacceptable". It’s impossibly unbelievable that you used such an optimistic observation against him. Isn't this observation true? Isn't it true that today USA is not bombing North Korea just as Iraq, because of this economical-interdependenc y with Japan, South Korea, China and Taiwan? Remember it is not a prophecy but an observation.

I can pick any point from your article and proof it a lie. I feel sorry for you that you spend almost whole of your life (I assume you are 60+ now) and collected these craps. Rather I'll say you are a real German, well determined to clean the Oshoit filth from the earth :D …… sorry guys :)

Here I am not trying to defend Osho or any one else. I don't think I have capacity or need to defend him. But it is my duty to oppose a misguiding misguided person :D

Any ways, your articles are certainly helpful, this way or that!

Love you, as usual :D


Reply
    Christopher Calder: RE:RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    WWW: home.att.net/~meditation
    Email: calderhome@yahoo.com
    Date: Oct 30, 2005, 18:32
    A. I am not "German." I am mainly British mixed with French and Swedish blood. My full legal name is Christopher Calder with no middle name. I was adopted and my birth father's name was John Johansen and my birth mother's name was Catherine Boyer. I am 1/8th Jewish, genetically speaking. I will be 56 years old next month.

    B. My public political editorials can be found at http://home.att.net/~medi tation/politics.html

    C . Before the last Gulf War one of my newspaper editorials was printed in a major Kuwaiti newspaper. The editorial called for the Kuwaiti people to not cooperate in Bush's war on Iraq, and I used some pretty tough language. The letter was translated into the local language and so many people read it that it caused a political stir, which not only upset the Kuwaiti Government but also US Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld. It became a news story on CNN and a CNN reporter asked Rumsfeld about my letter and he angrily yelled "It was not helpful." If all my hundreds of letters to foreign newspapers and foreign embassies trying to stop both of the Gulf wars did nothing but make Donald Rumsfeld angry, then at least I did something. That is the frustrating thing about world politics. Unless you are a major player you have little effect on the world. Besides voting, I don't know much else to do but write letters to people who can make a difference. The computer chat rooms and newsgroups are mainly filled with teenagers shouting at each other, so I view them as a waste of time.

    D. My essays on Osho are relaxed, honest, and fair. Their is nothing "hell-bent" about them or me. You see "hell" because I expose what you wish to cover up and ignore. It is not Osho's words that show his greatest faults, but his real life actions. Becoming a drug addict and living the life of a hypocrite is no small matter. Also, his teachings were simply wrong and untrue and based on self-serving lies and outdated myths. You can ignore all that but I cannot and the majority of the world looks upon him as a disgrace. Gurus should speak the truth, have just one face, and have no personal profit motive, otherwise they will only exploit and mislead their disciples.

    Christopher Calder

    Reply
      P.R.: RE:RE:RE:Report ing From The Osho Resort
      Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
      Date: Nov 6, 2005, 15:43

      A. ..... describes how you 'cc' see " I " ....

      B. .... " political editorials " are " public " and are always " political "

      C. .... " the frustrating thing about politics " ..... " I don't know much else to do "

      D. .... politicians cannot " speak the truth " " have 'more than' just one face " " have a personal profit motive " 'and' " exploit and mislead by 'discipline' "

      christopher politician calder


      Reply
      sarito: RE:RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      Email: sarito_ny@hotmail.com
      Date: Jan 21, 2006, 6:11
      One more time (thanks, Sarlo) it's worth repeating, and in its entirety this time. If the recipient of the gift didn't get it, perhaps the rest of us can.

      from "A Cup of Tea" by Osho

      327.
      Love.
      Oh, don't take life so seriously!
      Because seriousness is a great dis-ease,
      and not only a disease but a suicide also.
      Be playful -- totally
      because that is the only way to be living.
      Life is a play, a leela, and to know it so is religion,
      and to live it so is sannyas -- renunciation.

      If you can act and live as if acting and living in a dream
      and still be a witness to it
      then you will be in the cosmic flow, the tao.
      And to be in the cosmic flow is to be free --
      free from oneself, the ego.
      The ego is the seriousness, the disease,
      and the tao, the egoless existence, is the bliss,
      the ecstasy.
      That is why I have given you a name so absurd!

      But I have given it to you knowingly.
      I have given it to you so that you may never be identified with it.
      The name is so absurd
      that you will have to remain nameless and nobody behind it,
      and the name is such that
      not only others but you yourself will be able to laugh at it.
      Swami Krishna Christ!

      Oh, what a name!
      But perfectly suitable in a dream drama.
      is it not so

      So feel at ease with it.
      and laugh with it, and sing and dance with it
      and be SWAMI KRISHNA CHRIST with all the letters in
      capital!
      And always remember that you are nobody.
      And always be aware that
      you are neither a swami nor a Krishna nor a
      Christ --
      that is what is meant by a swami!
      And Krishna himself is not a Krishna
      and Christ himself is not a Christ
      because they are nameless, absolutely nameless.
      They are nobodies -- and that is what makes them divine.
      The moment one is identified with any name
      one is lost to one's divinity.
      Either one can be a name or a reality,
      and no one can be both simultaneously.
      Be a name really --
      and your reality is lost.
      Be a reality really --
      and your name is just a dream -- maya.
      And what nonsense to be a swami!
      But once one is at ease with the no sense one transcends it.

      Please! Don't try to be sensible
      otherwise you will never be with any sense at all!
      Because only stupidity tries to be sensible!
      The existence is absurd
      and meaningless
      and irrational
      and that is why it is so beautiful.
      And to be in it such a blessing!

      Reply
        Atmo Jayakumar: RE:RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
        Email: oshoatmatha@rediffmail.com
        Date: May 31, 2008, 23:34
        Beloved friend,
        Experiences cannot be brought into words, because words cannot contain it.

        When you go in you feel it, or else peripheral criticisms and formulas won't help.

        When your view point is wrong you will feel the whole world is a mess and lies.

        Calm down dear don't follow Osho just pass through it. Osho has created a wave that has affected you and me.
        Being in gratitude is the first step to mental peace and harmony. The moment you feel gratitude to everything around you, you will feel this world is beautiful, if not we have to make it beautiful.

        Remember we have only a short period in this life, so what is the point in wasting it for conflicts.
        with immense love,
        Atmo Jayakumar

        Reply
        Atmo Jayakumar: RE:RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
        Email: oshoatmatha@rediffmail.com
        Date: May 31, 2008, 23:37
        Beloved friend,
        Experiences cannot be brought into words, because words cannot contain it.

        When you go in you feel it, or else peripheral criticisms and formulas won't help.

        When your view point is wrong you will feel the whole world is a mess and lies.

        Calm down dear don't follow Osho just pass through it. Osho has created a wave that has affected you and me.
        Being in gratitude is the first step to mental peace and harmony. The moment you feel gratitude to everything around you, you will feel this world is beautiful, if not we have to make it beautiful.

        Remember we have only a short period in this life, so what is the point in wasting it for conflicts.
        with immense love,
        Atmo Jayakumar

        Reply
Carlos: HOla desde Peru
Email: noexistimos@hotmail.com
Date: Oct 22, 2005, 22:03
HOla, como estan?.. aqui tratando de leer los articulos... me interesa lo de osho.

Reply
    Christopher Calder: RE:HOla desde Peru
    WWW: home.att.net/~meditation
    Email: calderhome@yahoo.com
    Date: Oct 30, 2005, 22:09
    "Hello, as they estan.. aqui trying to read the articulos... interests the one to me of osho."
    ----------
    Carlos,

    That is the Babblefish translation of what you wrote. I am sorry but I do not speak Spanish. My essay on Osho has been translated into Spanish and is on the Web, as are German, French, and Russian translations.

    By the way, my adopted father's name was Paul Pfuetze and he was the head of the religion department at Vassar College. He was half German, but I was not related to him genetically. He took me on a tour of Zen monasteries in Japan when I was 16 years old and often took tours of his students to India. In 1971 he took a group of students to Woodlands Building in Bombay and met Achayra Rajneesh face to face. That is why my name is listed in early books as Swami Krishna Christ, aka "Walter Pfuetze." I changed my name in 1976 to Christopher Calder because I don't like German names and was interested in the artist Alexander Calder. That said, I am not German other than the fact that I am white European and all white Europeans have Germanic blood in them. We all have African blood as well because we are all descendants of one woman in Africa who lived thousands of years ago. At least that is the predominant theory of the origins of man.

    Cheers, Christopher

    Reply
      P.R.: RE:RE:HOla desde Peru
      Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
      Date: Nov 1, 2005, 16:31

      at least this is the predominant theory of the origins of calder

      Reply
        Christopher Calder: RE:RE:RE:HOla desde Peru
        WWW: home.att.net/~meditation
        Email: calderhome@yahoo.com
        Date: Nov 2, 2005, 21:46
        "Now the alternative to despair is courage. And human life can be viewed as a continuous struggle between these two options. Courage is the capacity to affirm one's life in spite of the elements which threaten it. The fact that courage usually predominates over despair in itself tells us something important about life. It tells you that the forces that affirm life are stronger than those that negate it."

        -- Paul E. Pfuetze--

        http://www.q uoteworld.org/author.php? thetext=Paul+E.+Pfuetze


        Reply
          P.R.: RE:RE:RE:RE:HOl a desde Peru
          Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
          Date: Nov 5, 2005, 12:07

          " and 'one' human life can be viewed as a continuous struggle between these two 'or more or less' options "

          krishna ... christ ... christopher ... calder ... paul ... e ... pfuetze ...........

          Reply
Shantam Prem: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: Shantamprem@hotmail.com
Date: Nov 6, 2005, 18:24
Dear Calder or beloved Krishna christ or jesus chirst (what does it matter),
Wihtout any doubt i will say, your essays are quite thought provoking. They are powerfull.
But i always wonder why you dont use the same yard stick with other alive or dead masters in the market. Jesus, Buddha etc we forget, they are very much wraped in the myth. A person like you will definately find the feet of clay attached to them too.
Let us say about J krishnamurti, or UG, or Sai baba or the new one like Ravishanker, Osho's sibling Shailandra and other 200 someones who have opened their satsang kiosks, If we have a perfect mark of ten, i bet Osho will be still on the top of the list, inspite of all the limitations mentioned by you.
Can you give lectures like him after having valium or anything. Even his lecture material was borrowed, do you know somebody who speaks and effects people in such a loving way.
Or tell us somebody who you think is enlighend and honest, whose words and deeds are in harmony?
love
Shantam Prem

Reply
    Shantamprem: About Mr. Cadler`s approach towards Osho
    Email: shantamprem@hotmail.com
    Date: Nov 10, 2005, 21:35
    About the answer to my question about Mr. Cadler' intentions about Osho, Last year i had an e mail correspondence with Mr. Cadler, where He mentioned that He doesnot want to waste his energy with the small freis in the spiritual market.
    Thorugh this mail i want to convey to him that humanity doesnot die because of the lion`s bite but it is the virus coming from Bird`s flu kind of things which brings the maximum distruction.
    Inspite of all the negtive points mentioned by Cadler in His negative artical about Osho, His contribution about the human spiritual growth still remains the maximum.

    Reply
      P.R.: RE:About Mr. Cadler`s approach towards Osho
      Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
      Date: Nov 11, 2005, 13:10

      " about the answer to my question about "

      as you also seem to "spend computer time"

      spend computer time with

      www.dr-rath-foundation.or g/The_Hague/complaint/


      www.welltv.com

      www.iahf.com

      www.holis tichealthtopics.com/HMG/c odex2.html

      you say that calder mentioned that "he does not want to waste 'his' energy with the small fries in the spiritual 'market' "

      answer that answer to you

      Reply
      anders: RE:About Mr. Cadler`s approach towards Osho
      Email: a.windisch@libero.it
      Date: Dec 26, 2005, 10:22
      You are perfectly right, humanity is endangered mostly by the need too many nourish to have someone tell them who they are and what they should do, instead than taking their responsibility for their own life and achieve the most difficult task: trust themselves and their own interior master. Keeping on projecting outside the quest for guidance ( and lost fathers, mothers and gods) feeds herds of gurus and life experts who inevitably turn their own personal quest to making a living ( when not to thrist for power) on needy disciples. What can happen is that the gurus stop moving on their paths and start sitting on thrones and the disciples get a comfortable ride on their back (for which they pay in cash or kind and devotion). The healthy inteaction which could help masters and followers to grow freezes too often against the unwillingness of the guru to accept true confrontation and the readiness of the disciple to follow without questioning.
      I agree with Calder, a guru can be undoubtedly 'enlightened', but is a man/woman like any other, they have more light and consciuosness, but are created equal and should never forget this. Any plant, animal and human can always teach them a lesson anytime and have the right to, because such is the great interactive game of life: One and greater that any guru or enlightened living being.


      Reply
        judy: RE:RE:About Mr. Cadler`s approach towards Osho
        Email:
        Date: Dec 26, 2005, 14:41

        you should, like calder, stay with catholicism

        where " words " such as yours and calder's are written to " agree " with each other



        Reply
          anders: RE:RE:RE:About Mr. Cadler`s approach towards Osho
          Email: a.windisch@libero.it
          Date: Dec 26, 2005, 19:27

          Catholicism? sounds OT here, actually I consider myself rather a rebellious pagan.
          I gather you don't like harsh and pointed words ( which anyway are rather uncatholic)
          so here's a little song for you

          Hi!
          Something's up something's down..
          something comes something goes..
          what's the pain what's the loss
          what's the use of pulling back
          once you start to move on?
          ups and downs is a point of view
          they don't decide for you..

          When you're master inside out
          not afraid of harm or joy
          when you see and touch and taste
          smell and hear and feel your heart
          there won't be no ups or downs
          but a whole new point of view..

          Reply
            ex Shanti: In Praise of C Calder
            Email: volumesgo@aol.com
            Date: Dec 27, 2005, 10:03
            Christopher I understand.

            I too was a long time Sannyasin genuinely searching for truth. I lived many years in Poona and was very close to Devageet and others.

            I have not read all the details of what you have written but for sure I agree with the main thrust and have come to understand what a harmful and deceitful person Osho was.

            It has taken a lot of courage for me to realise that I could have been so fooled for all those years - it is scary to know that what you thought was the most important thing in your life is so rotten. Seeing the truth turned my whole life upside down.

            Even when I realised that Osho was a liar and purposefully fooling people I still had great gratitude towards him as I thought that I had benefited from all those years.

            It took another level of understanding for me to drop the gratitude and realise that all those years were at the best a distraction.

            Anyway, I have no interest to get into this debate. I just want to let you (Christopher) know that there are others out there who respect your courage and understand what you are saying.

            You are very kind to attempt to help these people. I do not have the compassion for that but am sharing my love in other ways.


            Reply
              P.R.: RE:In Praise of C Calder
              Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
              Date: Dec 27, 2005, 14:32

              " ex " shanti ... like calder ... a politician

              your " searching " is as hollow

              as your " praising "

              as your " having no interest "

              as your " helping ' these people' "

              as your last arrogant sentence shows



              Reply
            judy: RE:RE:RE:RE:Abo ut Mr. Cadler`s approach towards Osho
            Date: Dec 27, 2005, 13:57

            catholicism and paganism are both weeds

            you defined your words as " harsh or pointed "

            your song - points of view

            points of view - like catholicism and paganism



            Reply
              atmokamya: RE:RE:RE:RE:RE: About Mr. Cadler`s approach towards Osho
              Email:
              Date: Dec 27, 2005, 18:24
              Tahnks to you all. I had a real good time reading this! It seems to be a matter of interst. As you see in the name i am an sanyassin myself, my parents are too. but still i dont consider myself a headless follower of osho. He helped me in many situations and still does. I LOVE his books. He said many things i dont understand and many things i dont agree. So what? He also said so many beautiful wise things, that make my live better. For me it is totally matterless what live osho had, if he was crazy (what he must have been) if he took valium or whatever. If he teaches my things that make ME happy. The things I dont like he said i just forget. If it makes MY life more loving, more dancing, more enjoing - and dont hurt nobody. I dont know how this is with you, but osho nor the commune never asked any money from me nor hurt me in any other way. On the opposite! I still have my own head to think an my own heart to feel. I have to admit - i met a lot of stupid sanyassins in my live - and a lot of stupid christians and moslems and atheists. and i met a lot of honest friendly warmhearded sanyassins as christians and other... You get the point? Just enjoy you live. And happy new year to you all!!!

              Reply
phil: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: gargantua1082004@yahoo.co.uk
Date: Jan 10, 2006, 15:18
i have been following this christopher christ versus osho people dispute for some while now.
i myself have had long `discussions`,with mr christ,(as i have recently discovered is one of his growing list of aliases),if that is possible with such an obviously emotive and inflamatory issue,on the old obb group and sannyas news.
these are some views that have occured to me.
chris calder is an absolutely neccesary and inevitable outgrowth of `sannyasin`self-deluding attitudes.he is the `dream shadow` created by the dreamer to remind about denied or just poorly understood parts of our self.
for example,the issue that calder raises about the falseness of the claim tothat osho was poisoned with thallium definitely sticks .osho`s symptoms were certainly more consistent(alarmingly so) with over use of nitrous oxide.
check it for yourselt.
what will you do?
say i must now :
stay in the present,notthink about the past what is gone is gone
not question the devices of the master
not be `hooked by negativity`
etc etc etc
calder is right when he says that any uncomfortable questioning is repelled by an ad hominem attack on the personal integrity of the speaker,which actually shows the avoidance by the `osho person.
see?that is the avoidance that creates the calder. the anger and urge to retaliate or dismiss, creates the aforementioned shadow.
if you want to deal with calder,look at that!

as for chris himself,
he may very well be the krishna christ guy,as what osho said to him about his name was bang on:unless you laugh at yourself a bit more,all the meditation in the world is just going to make you more obseessive .
i have met people like that in real life.
you know how some people are born with defective internal organs,blind,or with a kidney missing?well,calder is like that with his sense of humour.
osho sussed him out straught away.
trying to meditate without a sense of humour is like trying to have kids when you`ve had your balls cut off_forget it1
you will possibly manage to have a wank,if you are lucky,but that`s it!

so there you have it,you are all wrong and i am right.
any questions?

love

phi l






Reply
phil: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email:
Date: Jan 10, 2006, 15:51
and of course,many of calder`s allegations of rape and abuse etc need substantiation,sources,co rroborating witnesses etc.
when these are forthcoming,and convincing,i will help mr christ with his crusade for` the truth`
it would be foolish to follow the teachings of a rapist,no?
come on mr swami krishna christ opher calder,
anyone can make allegations on the net.
lets get the whole truth.
can you supply it.....?











Reply
    p.r.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
    Date: Jan 11, 2006, 17:25

    phil ... like calder ... a politician

    " calculating " " fawning "

    you say " I have been following "
    you say " I myself have had long discussions "
    you say " these are some views that have occurred to 'me'
    you say " what will 'you' do "
    you say " I must ........ etc etc etc "
    you say " I have met people like that in 'real' life "
    your SayingS reek of arrogance as the "gargantuan 'personal integrity' " of your "so there .... " sentence shows

    and not having had your fill of 'phil' you proclaim " I will help calder " and waving a flag with your politically expedient words "let's get the whole truth.can you supply it " ....
    gargantuan phil follows the calderschnelle crusade

    Reply
      : RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      Date: Jan 23, 2006, 4:53
      "Through my friend Deepak Chopra I came across Osho's books which gave me an
      other deeper shift in my life. I regret I did not met him in person, and I feel sorry the US Government missed such an opportunity back in 86."
      - Madonna, Singer and Performer

      Reply
: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Jan 23, 2006, 4:53
"These brilliant insights will benefit all those who yearn for experiential
knowledge of the field of pure potentiality inherent in every human being.
This book belongs on the shelf of every library and in the home of all those
who seek knowledge of the higher self."
- Deepak Chopra, author of Ageless Body, Timeless Mind; Quantum Healing and
Unconditional Life on Osho's Book "From Medication to Meditation"

Reply
: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Jan 23, 2006, 4:54
"When we wrote and prepared for shooting Vanilla Sky, I constantly checked
in with Osho's insights. It is not so easy to present the unconscious mind
with images and a story. Osho is the only one who can perfectly explain it
all, the inner and the outer and that helped me and my team immensely"
- Tom Cruise, actor

Reply
: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Jan 23, 2006, 4:54
"I was inspired by Osho's wisdom when I wrote the song 'How fragile we all
are'; Reading his books gave me hope for humanity. It is a must for
everybody to have a look into his words ....."
- Sting, Singer and Performer

Reply
: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Jan 23, 2006, 4:55
"His incredible taped discourse lectures and books have inspired me, and
millions of others, on the path of self-evolution... He is like a great bell
tolling, Awaken, Awaken, Awaken!"
- James Coburn, actor

Reply
: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Jan 23, 2006, 4:55
"Enlightened people like Osho are ahead of their times. It is good that more and more young people are now reading his works."
- K. R. Narayanan, former president of India

Reply
Harry Manx Krishna Prasad: RE:Reporting From New York City on Sw. Christ and others.
Email:
Date: Jan 29, 2006, 20:16
It's amazing how those of us who were connected to Osho through the heart seem to have gained so much from him and then moved on to new places and new people without much struggle. With virtually no looking back even to see if the path that we had taken with Him is still in place. Many of us have found our way to be in the mainstream and contribute something inspirational and worthwhile to make it a little better place than it was when we found it. Just as He himself had done.
In contrast, those who related mainly with their well developed intellectual minds to Osho seem to still be stuck somewhere in the past. It would appear that they have unfinished business. Hence they will remain stuck there until they find their way out. They will go on trying (seemingly desperately) to convince others of the validity of their point of view and to justify why their perspective is right and yours is wrong. They call it a search for truth. I like this expression: "Don't search, stop and see what is"
I'm fine with them doing that though, after all it's their right to do what they like with their lives. In fact I'd say go for it because after all this is your chance to make the journey happen as you see fit. Who am I to judge what others need to accomplish in this life? Personally, I've had a wonderful journey with Osho while he was on the ranch,during Pune 2 and since he's been gone. I have always had an open heart for the man. I am grateful to him. I love him. It's very clear and uncomplicated. He inspires my art which itself has inspired thousands of others. The whole world could go against Osho, it's fine with me because I'm not a religious man, I don't need anyone else to love my master or agree with him so that I'll feel comforted. Actually I'm kind of greedy, I want him for myself! Please don't love him!
The reason you can find people everywhere who are "glowing" with love and bliss but who believe or follow some obviously questionable spiritual/religious path is that it's not about the object of your surrender or worship, it's about the intensity and totallity of your devotion. What you yourself bring to the situation. The fact is, Osho didn't transform these people, maybe someone else will. They should be looking elsewhere for their enlightenment and forget all about sannyasins and Osho.
Even if it's true as some would claim that he deceived people and distorted the truth, what you yourself do with that realization will basically form who you are (or think you are!). If you put your energy into hate, argumentation, conspiracy theories etc. etc. that's the bed you made and you'll have to sleep in it. Unfortunately there won't be any energy left for things like:
Watching a beautiful sunset with tears in your eyes. Crying over the death of a beloved. Playing with a small child at his level. Writing a song that only you'll hear but which will feel soooo good. Laughing for no particular reason with a long lost friend. Sitting in silence. Smiling. Dancing.
Basically enjoying all the beautiful moments that existence provides on an ongoing basis.
All the intellectualizing in the world won't bring you even one inch of Buddha. But an open heart is like an open road....it goes on and on.
Love, Life and Laughter. Too simple for some, more than enough for others.

Big shout out to all the beloveds who I miss....we had a great journey with Him didn't we.
Lots of love to all....
Harry Manx, Sw. Krishna Prasad


Reply
    Christoph Schnelle: RE:Reporting From New York City on Sw. Christ and others.
    Email: aaqws@hotmail.com
    Date: Mar 3, 2006, 11:58
    Hi Harry,

    Loved your contribution. I looked at your website, photos and listened to your music. Very nice!

    If I read your message correctly then you are saying the following:

    Osho may or may not be a fake guru. Those who oppose him are stuck in the past and too much in their head. As a result these people miss out on all that is beautiful in life – playing, crying, smiling, singing. You love Osho, he inspires you and if a person is intensely and totally devoted then this person is glowing with love and bliss – regardless of whom that person is devoted to.

    That’s nice and a beautiful illusion. The issue is very straightforward: What is more important – truth or feeling good? You clearly answered that feeling good is more important for you than truth. That is very much your right, however I personally feel thoroughly uncomfortable basing my life on a lie just to feel good. I am doing the opposite – I accept whatever is true, no matter how uncomfortable, painful or embarrassing. As a result I am living in paradise with the most beautiful wife in the world and I have an amazingly happy time.

    I am writing about Osho because his lies and his deceit caused an enormous amount of pain for a lot of beautiful people. Most of these beautiful people have no idea that a sophisticated fraud was perpetrated on them and blame themselves for their deteriorating mental and physical health. Many of my sannyasin friends have great trouble sustaining this illusory happy fog and are taking more and more desperate measures to continue feeling good. This hurts.

    Back to your message: You are courageously conceding the possibility that Osho deceived people (I am not ironic – it DOES take a lot of courage) but then you use two of the best strategies with which Osho defrauded us all:

    � The first one is that those who oppose Osho are too much in their head.
    � The second strategy is that WHO is saying something completely overrides WHAT that person is saying. In other words an enlightened person can speak the most appalling rubbish and it is still much more valid than a lesser person speaking total truth.

    Osho defrauded some of the most beautiful and intelligent people on the planet. Therefore his fraud had to be sophisticated. The best trick he used in his fraud was telling everybody �Use your mind in the world, but go beyond the mind in the spiritual�.

    In other words, �Don’t use your mind around me. If you use your mind, you are in your head and you are missing out on the spiritual�. Osho mainly targeted and attracted very intelligent people who have strong minds. Osho here used the same strategy as the Catholic Church – create an unsolvable conflict within people and then they are easy to control.

    The church uses guilt to deceive and control its adherents. It is one thing to feel guilty about breaking your wife’s favourite crockery or to feel guilty about pulling the wings off a fly or to feel guilty about committing rape, murder and pillaging. However, the church demanded people feel guilty about perfectly natural things like sex and the church said that the only way to free yourself of this guilt is by adhering to the church’s commands.

    Osho’s �Go beyond the mind to be spiritual� had exactly the same effect. It’s ok to point out that the mind has serious limitations and many mental habits cause misery. However it is outright fraud to say that the only way to be spiritual is to ignore the mind. This creates a conflict with truth, because the mind is needed to recognize untruth. If the mind is ignored, the person becomes unable to distinguish between truth and lies. Osho created and exploited this internal conflict – just as the Catholic Church did with guilt.

    The more intelligent the person, the stronger the mind and the stronger the conflict. Every time sannyasins used their intelligence, they felt guilty. The smarter they are the bigger the conflict.

    The second nasty trick Osho used was �Only an enlightened person can speak truth, anybody who is not enlightened cannot speak truth, no matter what they say�.

    If Osho says, two plus two is five, it is a superior truth to my two plus two is four.

    This is only a small exaggeration. I think every sannyasin concedes that Osho sometimes spoke the most appalling rubbish, for example when he spoke about science. However, his strategy leads to sannyasins accepting anything Osho says, no matter how untrue and ignoring anything Osho’s detractors say, no matter how true.

    Osho managed something amazing with these two strategies:
    He managed to lie and lie and lie to us sannyasins. We didn’t expose his lies because we didn’t use our reasoning abilities (our minds) and we valued his lies more than any truth because an enlightened person’s lies are more valuable than another person’s truth.

    The best frauds are those where the victim says �I wasn’t deceived� and where the victim even actively fights anybody pointing out the fraud. Osho’s fraud is one of those.
    None of this would matter if those lies didn’t cause such enormous damage to so many intelligent and sensitive people.

    Harry, you are doing well. Many other sannyasins are not doing well. There is the enormous death rate through cancer – too high for a middle aged population. Many sannyasins work as healers and most of them fit the �wounded healer’ syndrome. Many others’ health has collapsed. Many sannyasins are involved in things that are even more harmful, like Deeksha.

    Osho was a sophisticated and nasty fraudster with a grudge who intentionally misled and hurt his followers. His grudge was that deep down he knew that his teachings were a sham and he could not bear to see genuine seekers. It is a tragedy that so many people did not know and still do not know that they have been hurt in this way.


    Reply
      p.r.: RE:Reporting From New York City on Sw. Christ and others.
      Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
      Date: Mar 3, 2006, 15:45

      calderschnelle

      Self proclaiming priestS

      preaching political SermonS

      reeking of arrogant condescesion

      Schnelle Sermon .... " If "

      " Hi ................. " posturing

      " Loved your ..... " patronising

      " If I ................ " pontificating

      " If " a word that negates all that " follows "

      " If " a fitting epitaph for calderscnelle

      Reply
      Christopher Calder: RE:Reporting From New York City on Sw. Christ and others.
      WWW: home.att.net/~meditation
      Email: calderhome@yahoo.com
      Date: Mar 8, 2006, 23:55
      Christop Schnelle,

      I don't think Osho intentionally tried to hurt his disciples. He was self-deluded because he did not understand what he was in fact. He only knew the myths he created about himself. Rajneesh was born with a brain perfectly suited for cosmic consciousness. Being Indian, he was exposed to all the myths of soul, reincarnation, great enlightened teachers, etc. He assumed he was the reincarnation of some great soul and invented stories of past lives and the occult to gain power. The occult is sexy and seductive and sells well. He rationalized his lying as a way to help people, in part because he assumed that he was so great that he could do no harm. Anything he touched, he thought, would turn to gold.

      Unfortunately, this is a case of the 1960s slogan, "If it feels good do it." Osho-Rajneesh felt good lying so he did it, every day of his life. He loved to lie and manipulate people. That was his thing. Drugs feel good just like Osho's presence felt good. Does that mean you should act on any urge that you get in your head during a LSD trip? No. Life is more complicated than that, and just because Osho-Rajneesh was cosmically conscious does not mean that he was wise, honest, and truthful. His daily lying ended up hurting many people and giving meditation a bad name. Cosmic consciousness, while highly enjoyable, is not a cure-all for all that is wrong with the human mind/brain. The lost nation of Tibet is proof of that. Osho-Rajneesh had good intentions, but he did not understand his own neurology and the fact that his gift was DNA based, not soul based, because there is no soul. That is why the more you look into the phenomena of gurus, the more you will find hypocrisy, fraud, theft, lies, deceit.

      Most gurus want money, power, willing disciples to have sex with, and some even want drugs. Osho-Rajneesh wanted and got all of that, and he rationalized it all in the name of spirituality, which does not exist because there is no soul/spirit. That is what J. Krishnamurti was trying to tell people when he called "spirituality" an ugly word. When J. Krishnamurti said "Do not think about soul and reincarnation," what he really was saying is that there is no soul and there is no reincarnation. J. Krishnamurti could not just come out and say the truth because Indian society would not listen to him if he just bluntly stated that the very basis of Hinduism was wrong. He had to be diplomatic and use subtle words to transfer his message. J. Krishnamurti realized late in life, as did Osho-Rajneesh, that it is all in the brain. Soul is a beautiful idea, but soul is not a fact. Soul is wonderful and hypnotic fiction. UG Krishnamurti finally broke the truth taboo and spilled the beans about the mystical business and all its lies. Mysticism is a fraud and that is why gurus turn bad, become drug addicts, liars, thieves, and sometimes even murderers. If the myths of great souls were true, history would not be so littered with scandals of gurus committing every crime in the book.

      A sense of humor is great, but lying to people is no joke. If your disciples engage in germ warfare, an apology is the least you owe society. Osho-Rajneesh's ego was so big he could not even apologize for that. He hooked people on the losing the ego/enlightenment scam, all the while his ego was fully functional, because all of us need a central controlling force (ego) to survive. If you actually lost your ego you would physically die. Osho's teachings were wrong and a fraud from A to Z, but they were euphoric lies and most people are so unconscious and irresponsible they embrace euphoric lies over the difficult truth. That is why George Bush was re-elected by an oblivious flag waving American public, and that is why Osho's people still cling to his robes long after his lies and ethical crimes were exposed for all to see.

      Christopher Calder


      Reply
        salwa: RE:Reporting From New York City on Sw. Christ and others.
        Date: Apr 27, 2006, 16:32
        ---"If it feels good do it." Osho-Rajneesh felt good lying so he did it, every day of his life. He loved to lie and manipulate people.---

        First sorry for my english,i hope to be undestand.

        If it feels good do it.For sure this sentence was not for you Mr.someone.That was only for Good ppl.
        when u breack the bondage around you,the culture the morallity,All what they teach you,what they made from you.Then ''if feels good do it''.this time you will know what to do, cos u will fallow youre heart.

        its seems to me that u don't have mind,and youre heart is also empty.Go and joy the morality ,..for sure after sametimes gulit will arise-and will finish you.Cos u morality are fake,the nature is only truth.Open u heart and seek for truth inside youre self.

        Reply
        bliss : RE:Reporting From New York City on Sw. Christ and others.
        Date: Nov 5, 2010, 0:10
        hey our friend , we can see that you understood everything wrong which means that you didnot understand Osho at all . To be able to undesrtand him first thing is you shouldnt try to rationalize with ur mind . as a consequence one even says lies to himself . Secondly you should leave all the prejudice behind and listen what he is saying . if you had done so you would not have ınderstood everything he said upside down . First Osho didnot mean such things as "do as you like even if you wanna commit murder do it ,thats ur not being able to understand him and projecting ur thoughts to him . what he is really saying is " be more and more alert and conscious be deep in meditation and do as you like ,in that way you can never commit anything wrong . " from my experences i know what he is saying is 100 percent the truth . before i was not a vegeterian i was just feeling not right to eat animals but when i became fully aware of how i contribute their death by eati ng them and the unhealthiness the corpse i am eating i disgusted it and never be able to eat again . its just about being alert . Secondly i see that you even misunderstood krishnamurti as well . what HE and Osho saying are going to the same door . If you believe in science you mustcome to the conclusion that everything that has a out must have the opposite which is "in" as well just like how every day ends with a night and everynight ends with a day . This is the first realization which both Osho and Krishna agree on . and second is the relization that "in and out " same thirdly teh relization that " theres no in and out " and a dewdrop going to the ocean it does not lose anything it becomes as vast as the ocean . and ocean bows to a dewdrop welcomes it . Osho says one must drop personality at first to become an individual , and later to go beyond that one must understand that they even donot have a soul of their own. it belongs to the ocean . After one has enjoyed his or her individuality to the utmost after living its purity living in celebration now she or he must celebrate and enjoy its disappearing into the ocean . But if you didnot taste meditation for real how can you understand the depth of all those sayings ? you are bound to misinterpret them . Finally you make the misatke of calling Osho an egoist which is wrong again . He says theres nothing wrong in being selfish, "how can you love others if you dont start from urself ? you just can pretend to be loving " but being an egoist is hell . He was 100 percent selfish and 100 percent not egoist .How can anyone be ready to give up all the wealth , his body , mind even his individuality to join the ocean can be an egoist ?if he had been an egoist , he would never have said " a man of enlightenment has nothing to lose he has given all the things he had up now one thing is left and its his individuality to go beyond enlightenment now he has to give up his individualty too now one thing left to loose and its the individuality he will enjoy watching it disappearing into the ocean . he had 0 ego . it never mattered for Osho to be weathy or not . He himself says that he is spiritualist materialist . no lies at all . a spiritualist matterialists never commit anythi ng evil to get money . if he gets he enjoys it but by proper means not by evil . its a pity to see that you see every guru the same . How many books of Osho did you read till now ? How many videos of him were you patient enough to watch ? one cannot be patient cos of his mind =ego= prejudice . He wanted all the world to be rich but by good means of course He was one of the most humanistic person the world had ever seen . he wanted all the world to be rich so that people would not worry about what to eat tomorrow what to do tomorrow so they will know that being just materialistic is not enough to be happy . they need to go inwards too and a rich person will turn inside to reach to the state we call ""Bliss " " when he had finished the university he had taken a gold medal and his father had said angrily that "why didnt you let another one take it , i know that it has no value for you " when he had resigned from teaching in the univ everyone said "why ? you would have been in a very good place if you had continued " his father said " why dont you burn all the certificates you had taken as you dont have any connection with the univ now ? " and He said " yes thats a very good idea and he burnt all " He was the most aware person that those things just give u a personalty and personalty is not you . those are not the things that make you , you . ALWAYS STARTİNG FROM THE SCRATCH İS NEEDED and A VAST TRUST TOWARDS EXISTENCE . Which he had infinite . he was the most brave man on earth . a man who had nothing to lose . a man whose intention is just to share the bliss he had and help us to find it too free us from our minds . he was seeing teh pure witness in all of us which even we cannot notice that we are just that . the only thing that belongs to us and it has to disappear too . If Osho had ego why would he done such things as resigning from places when he sees there are lies going on ?Now i am quoting just an example .:
        " I was myself once an editor, and I resigned from the post because everything has to be pro-government. Truth is not the criterion. The poor individual is not to be protected. Government is already powerful and press also joins with government. That was one reason I resigned. I said, �I will say what I feel is the truth, whether it goes against government or anybody"

        Second thing I found, that they are not interested in any good news. They are interested only in rapes, murders, suicides, divorces, scandal. And I told them that these are dangerous. There may be a million men, and only one man rapes, and he becomes news. What about the remaining?""


        Osho was the best for sure . and only a few people can really understand and see who really he is . We can see his good intentions and love toward all of us even to the ones who are against him , from his eyes , silences , hugs , dances ....We know beyond seeing teh surface just , we can go deeper , without any prejudice , which means that we will experiment what he is saying and find out by ourselves thats what he keeps on saying dont follow meeee , experiment by urselves . and the more we experiment the more we see that he is right . He is beyond words . just like he had said " Dont bite my finger , look where i am pointing " do so so that you can do sth for yourself . Leave all the belives and disbelieves so that you will not be prejudiced . you will not be for or against anything . Osho was not . He was not schizophrenic like the so called saints or scientists who are seperating the material and immaterial , night and death , ying and yang , west and east , who are denying either of them . life and death . life must be celebrated so is death they both gifts from the beloved . life must be lived to the full so that death will have a meaning too , there re more than enough to feed all the world and we can share all the riches but instaed we prefer to keep them just bec oof our possesiveness (ego ) He was the only one who gave the Zorba and the Budda to the earth as a gift . and a man that so humanistic to say that " we all has to contribute to the humanity , we all must leave here making it a little more beautiful . and thats only possible if people are happy and not schizophrenic . Truth must eb the critarion. Osho was never politics . all budhas are bound to be misunderstood cos its very difficult to understand sth which is beyond , only you have to live it to have a taste of it . Osho did his best to contribute the humanity . for him people who are serious and do not laugh are dangerous cos they would not care if all the world ends . cos they are going through hell . and they will try to make the others as miserable as themselves thats why its the first principle to be selfish to love ur self and radiate ur love just give give without expecting to take .if theres God and u meet God one day when u die the only question God will ask is " did you live and enjoy your life fully cos it was a gift given to yu just to live and enjoy it ." so whats the need of seperation between material and inmetarial ? Both were given to us to enjoy not to make renounciation and fuss and a person who knows the art of living fully will have a great sense of beauty and will not be able to harm anything thats teh only religion which is coming from inside not forced from outside not built under the shadows of fear . but its built under love coming from inside radiating to the outside as well . Osho " theres only one wrong and its unawareness and theres only one virtue and its awareness . " if you are aware you cannot commit any evil . if you are commitng evil that means you are not aware of it . evil can live at the depths of the unconsciousness . be the master of urself . and stop distorting the truth and what he is saying . Love and peace be with you all ....

        Reply
        bliss : RE:Reporting From New York City on Sw. Christ and others.
        Email: llightbluee@hotmail.com
        Date: Nov 5, 2010, 0:31
        hey our friend , we can see that you understood everything wrong which means that you didnot understand Osho at all . To be able to undesrtand him first thing is you shouldnt try to rationalize with ur mind . as a consequence one even says lies to himself . Secondly you should leave all the prejudice behind and listen what he is saying . if you had done so you would not have ınderstood everything he said upside down . First Osho didnot mean such things as "do as you like even if you wanna commit murder do it ,thats ur not being able to understand him and projecting ur thoughts to him . what he is really saying is " be more and more alert and conscious be deep in meditation and do as you like ,in that way you can never commit anything wrong . " from my experences i know what he is saying is 100 percent the truth . before i was not a vegeterian i was just feeling not right to eat animals but when i became fully aware of how i contribute their death by eati ng them and the unhealthiness the corpse i am eating i disgusted it and never be able to eat again . its just about being alert . Secondly i see that you even misunderstood krishnamurti as well . what HE and Osho saying are going to the same door . If you believe in science you mustcome to the conclusion that everything that has a out must have the opposite which is "in" as well just like how every day ends with a night and everynight ends with a day . This is the first realization which both Osho and Krishna agree on . and second is the relization that "in and out " same thirdly teh relization that " theres no in and out " and a dewdrop going to the ocean it does not lose anything it becomes as vast as the ocean . and ocean bows to a dewdrop welcomes it . Osho says one must drop personality at first to become an individual , and later to go beyond that one must understand that they even donot have a soul of their own. it belongs to the ocean . After one has enjoyed his or her individuality to the utmost after living its purity living in celebration now she or he must celebrate and enjoy its disappearing into the ocean . But if you didnot taste meditation for real how can you understand the depth of all those sayings ? you are bound to misinterpret them . Finally you make the misatke of calling Osho an egoist which is wrong again . He says theres nothing wrong in being selfish, "how can you love others if you dont start from urself ? you just can pretend to be loving " but being an egoist is hell . He was 100 percent selfish and 100 percent not egoist .How can anyone be ready to give up all the wealth , his body , mind even his individuality to join the ocean can be an egoist ?if he had been an egoist , he would never have said " a man of enlightenment has nothing to lose he has given all the things he had up now one thing is left and its his individuality to go beyond enlightenment now he has to give up his individualty too now one thing left to loose and its the individuality he will enjoy watching it disappearing into the ocean . he had 0 ego . it never mattered for Osho to be weathy or not . He himself says that he is spiritualist materialist . no lies at all . a spiritualist matterialists never commit anythi ng evil to get money . if he gets he enjoys it but by proper means not by evil . its a pity to see that you see every guru the same . How many books of Osho did you read till now ? How many videos of him were you patient enough to watch ? one cannot be patient cos of his mind =ego= prejudice . He wanted all the world to be rich but by good means of course He was one of the most humanistic person the world had ever seen . he wanted all the world to be rich so that people would not worry about what to eat tomorrow what to do tomorrow so they will know that being just materialistic is not enough to be happy . they need to go inwards too and a rich person will turn inside to reach to the state we call ""Bliss " " when he had finished the university he had taken a gold medal and his father had said angrily that "why didnt you let another one take it , i know that it has no value for you " when he had resigned from teaching in the univ everyone said "why ? you would have been in a very good place if you had continued " his father said " why dont you burn all the certificates you had taken as you dont have any connection with the univ now ? " and He said " yes thats a very good idea and he burnt all " He was the most aware person that those things just give u a personalty and personalty is not you . those are not the things that make you , you . ALWAYS STARTİNG FROM THE SCRATCH İS NEEDED and A VAST TRUST TOWARDS EXISTENCE . Which he had infinite . he was the most brave man on earth . a man who had nothing to lose . a man whose intention is just to share the bliss he had and help us to find it too free us from our minds . he was seeing teh pure witness in all of us which even we cannot notice that we are just that . the only thing that belongs to us and it has to disappear too . If Osho had ego why would he done such things as resigning from places when he sees there are lies going on ?Now i am quoting just an example .:
        " I was myself once an editor, and I resigned from the post because everything has to be pro-government. Truth is not the criterion. The poor individual is not to be protected. Government is already powerful and press also joins with government. That was one reason I resigned. I said, �I will say what I feel is the truth, whether it goes against government or anybody"

        Second thing I found, that they are not interested in any good news. They are interested only in rapes, murders, suicides, divorces, scandal. And I told them that these are dangerous. There may be a million men, and only one man rapes, and he becomes news. What about the remaining?""


        Osho was the best for sure . and only a few people can really understand and see who really he is . We can see his good intentions and love toward all of us even to the ones who are against him , from his eyes , silences , hugs , dances ....We know beyond seeing teh surface just , we can go deeper , without any prejudice , which means that we will experiment what he is saying and find out by ourselves thats what he keeps on saying dont follow meeee , experiment by urselves . and the more we experiment the more we see that he is right . He is beyond words . just like he had said " Dont bite my finger , look where i am pointing " do so so that you can do sth for yourself . Leave all the belives and disbelieves so that you will not be prejudiced . you will not be for or against anything . Osho was not . He was not schizophrenic like the so called saints or scientists who are seperating the material and immaterial , night and death , ying and yang , west and east , who are denying either of them . life and death . life must be celebrated so is death they both gifts from the beloved . life must be lived to the full so that death will have a meaning too , there re more than enough to feed all the world and we can share all the riches but instaed we prefer to keep them just bec oof our possesiveness (ego ) He was the only one who gave the Zorba and the Budda to the earth as a gift . and a man that so humanistic to say that " we all has to contribute to the humanity , we all must leave here making it a little more beautiful . and thats only possible if people are happy and not schizophrenic . Truth must eb the critarion. Osho was never politics . all budhas are bound to be misunderstood cos its very difficult to understand sth which is beyond , only you have to live it to have a taste of it . Osho did his best to contribute the humanity . for him people who are serious and do not laugh are dangerous cos they would not care if all the world ends . cos they are going through hell . and they will try to make the others as miserable as themselves thats why its the first principle to be selfish to love ur self and radiate ur love just give give without expecting to take .if theres God and u meet God one day when u die the only question God will ask is " did you live and enjoy your life fully cos it was a gift given to yu just to live and enjoy it ." so whats the need of seperation between material and inmetarial ? Both were given to us to enjoy not to make renounciation and fuss and a person who knows the art of living fully will have a great sense of beauty and will not be able to harm anything thats teh only religion which is coming from inside not forced from outside not built under the shadows of fear . but its built under love coming from inside radiating to the outside as well . Osho " theres only one wrong and its unawareness and theres only one virtue and its awareness . " if you are aware you cannot commit any evil . if you are commitng evil that means you are not aware of it . evil can live at the depths of the unconsciousness . be the master of urself . and stop distorting the truth and what he is saying . Love and peace be with you all ....

        Reply
        Bliss: RE:Reporting From New York City on Sw. Christ and others.
        WWW: truthaboutosho.blogspot.com
        Email: llightbluee@hotmail.com
        Date: Nov 5, 2010, 0:54
        i have found that link on google as an answer to you , check that He replied you so rightly . thats the truth now its time for you to yield so that you take a step to egolessness . Besides if you once had been his disciple thats a state of wooow and means you were so lucky to brethe the same air he did there and being so close to him how couldnt you see his love in his eyes ? from the vibrations he gives out the tranquility in his being . we all wish we were so lucky to be so close to him to share love, whne he was on that earth too . You must have been so grateful that you were one of those lucky ones . why are you attacking him instead being thankful of being with such a grate man of all times ? His all manners are so elegant , human that even we can see from so far away . his love reaches to us from so far . love doesnt have any boundary . Whats more he did not have a cult , it doesnt matter how many people gathered . he is not a man of quantity but he is a man of quality . he deals with individuals one by one who wants to transform their lives he does not deal with the ones who doesnt want by force . you cannot call this as a cult . and we are not followers of him for him we are just friends . such humbleness . and you dont have any other better work than to attack Osho ? u can attack any politician but we wont let you confuse Osho with politicians or religious leaders . . he was not a religious leader he wasbeyond all , just a human . who were enlightened in the real meaning . and i recommand you donot make any comments on the things you do not have a taste of . you have never tasted enlightenment and you have difficulty in understanding him so accept taht you are confused and stop making comments on things you are not sure of . so that your ego lessens and lessens one day it disappears all . When you are not God is . really . get out of that hell and stop imprisoning urself inside . even if you accet ur fault or not it doesnt make any differance for us . it will just make differance for you. you can either free yourself from ego and know what God is or you will go on claiming that you know for sure and will not God enter in . http://truthaboutosho.blo gspot.com/

        Reply
: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Jan 29, 2006, 21:49
Hallelujah
Cheers Krishna

Reply
    Not Required: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Date: Feb 14, 2006, 11:41
    Always look at target just feel what OSHO says what he was why any of you take care. you are not blind. To become true truth seeker you must belive in yourself not in others be it OSHO or Christopher Calder

    Reply
surio: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
WWW: im
Email: www.onion@yahoo.com
Date: Feb 14, 2006, 14:23
Christopher Calder

Reply
    p.r.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
    Date: Feb 17, 2006, 18:17

    " surio " ... lus'surio'so ... an italian word ...

    meanings ... lustful, salacious ...

    an interesting soubriquet for a politician ...

    like " calder "

    " surio " ... e'surio' ... a latin word ...

    meanings ... to long for , to yearn ...

    an interesting soubriquet for a seeker ...

    like " harry manx krishna "

    Reply
phil: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email:
Date: Mar 21, 2006, 16:27
to sum up:

harry krishna harry manx says a good time was had by all

christopher christ says a bad time was had by all

the dove wished everything was white

the crow wished everything was black




i say;

I LEAVE YOU YOUR DREAM






Reply
karma: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: karma_reloaded@yahoo.com
Date: Apr 12, 2006, 13:45
even with all his lies , osho was the most charismatic man .....his lies only add spice to his persona

Reply
    Christopher Calder: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    WWW: home.att.net/~meditation/Osho.html
    Email: calderhome@yahoo.com
    Date: Jul 5, 2006, 6:10
    His lies added spice to his persona? How about his disciples germ warfare attacks on men, women, and little children? How about Osho's own thefts and two faced hypocrisy? What about his drug addiction and dementia? Does that all add to his greatness?

    Osho followers are the most dishonest and dull people in the world, and they all have serious mental issues. They have no sense of truth, responsibility, or justice.

    See the con man dethroned at:

    http://home.att.ne t/~meditation/downfall-pi ctures.html

    Cosmic consciousness is real. Mysticism is false. A rock is a rock, and a tree is a tree. Consciousness, cosmic or otherwise, is all in the brain. There is no "spirituality" because there are no spirits, no souls, no ghosts, and no Gods. That is why gurus become corrupt, cults become dangerous, and disciples become foolish.

    Christopher Calder
    http://home.att.n et/~meditation/ - home page


    Reply
      p.r.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
      Date: Jul 6, 2006, 13:38

      cosmos ....... . . . . . . .

      miss' tics' ... calder schnelle and aliASSES

      Spitting Sermons of malignant misanthropy

      exposed at their close by their arrogant amen

      " I absolutely claim fallibility "

      Reply
        Christopher Calder: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
        WWW: home.att.net/~meditation/Osho.html
        Email: calderhome@yahoo.com
        Date: Jul 10, 2006, 7:54
        At the bottom of all my web pages I have the following statement.

        "Opini ons expressed on this page must be viewed as the ideas of an ordinary student of meditation. While I truly believe everything I say, you should not believe anything unless you see it, feel it, and know it for yourself. I make no claims of infallibility. In fact I absolutely claim fallibility."

        &qu ot;moc" has no argument to make, so he accuses me of being arrogant for telling the truth, that I am a fallible human being. But it did not bother "moc" that Rajneesh for most of his life claimed to be infallible, not fallible. "moc" seems to be a lover of lies and liars. Rajneesh claimed that he had sex with young girls because it would bless them so much that they would become enlightened in a future lifetime. Then years latter while under the influence of large doses of Valium he admitted that there is no such thing as reincarnation. So all of his teachings were false, from A to Z, as were his claims of being a great guru in past lives, because he did not have any past lives. No one does! But "moc" is OK with the liar, but puts up illogical and weak criticism against someone who just wants to tell the truth to set the record straight. "moc" makes conspiracy theories in his head that other posters who may be less devout than himself are really me, Christopher, in disguise. This is delusional and a diversion from the debate, which he cannot win.

        What is so bad with truth, fact, reality, honesty? Is life so miserable for you that you hate to let go of your spiritual dreams? Have you declared truth to be evil and your enemy?

        No Osho-Rajneesh person has a reasonable or honest argument in favor of worshipping Osho, but they still do. No honest person can defend his life or his deeds, so all Osho people can do is make ridiculous statements that do not make any sense to anyone not wearing a straight-jacket. Osho is dead, and those who continue the hoax of his life are not doing him or anyone else any favors. Life goes on, and the future should be made with honesty, not more lies. Have compassion for those who come after us. They deserve to know the truth.



        Reply
          p.r.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
          Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
          Date: Jul 11, 2006, 12:34

          calder .... pious .. petulant .. paragraphed ..

          para 1 .... braying ....
          &
          para 2 .... arrogant exonerations of his
          .............. malignant misanthropy

          para 3 ... braying ........
          ............. 'argument' .... 'accuses' ...
          ............. 'conspiracy' .. 'disguise' ...
          ............. 'delusional' ... 'diversion' ...

          swishing his ' tale ' in ' debate ' circles
          "which he cannot ' win ' "

          para 4 ... braying ....
          ............. "questions"
          ............. ' What is ...... '
          ............. ' Is life .......... '
          ............. ' Have you .... '

          more desperate despairing
          ' debate ' swishes of his ' tale '

          para 5 ... braying ....
          ............. ' Life goes on ......... '
          ............. ' the future should ... '
          ............. ' those ................... '
          ............. ' They .................... '

          calder ... arrogance exemplified

          Reply
Svatmo: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Apr 15, 2006, 1:03
Christopher,

You have unconciously choosen appropriate name of Christopher Calder or CC or Sissy - Coward.

You were a driftwood that came across OSHO accidentally and blessed by his sheer compassion. Unfortunately you could not take plunge in the river, instead stayed on the bank - could not start the journey towards heart and stayed in the mind - could not move towards center and stayed on the periphery.

You can only hear the song if your frequency is tuned into the frequency of the broadcasting radio station. So many people could tune into the frequency and heard the SONG and danced to the music.

Obviously you cound not understand why they are dancing. Your ego got wounded and started bleeding. Wounded ego made it hard for you to admit that you could not take a plunge so you invented and fabricated lies about OSHO and others to justify your cowardlyness. You came across a rare diamond accidentally and throw away as a stone. That hurts like hell.

Remember, No matter how big the dust storms are on the Earth, they can not hide the SUN.

Reply
Big Daddy: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: liondog667@hotmail.com
Date: Jun 25, 2006, 6:34
just because you're enlightened doesn't mean you won't/can't be a goddamn goof!


that's all Chrisman's saying, right bro?!

Fletch

Reply
    pr: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: moc.liamtohat@htmail.com
    Date: Jul 3, 2006, 10:37

    " big daddy liondog " .... a calder'smell'e

    Reply
      : RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      Date: Jul 31, 2006, 23:12
      funny and
      watch your mouth

      Reply
        p.r.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
        Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
        Date: Aug 18, 2006, 13:59
        it was on Jul 31,2006,23:12 ...................

        in Caustic City ......................... ............

        that ......................... ......................... ...

        christopher calder ......................... ........
        the carping crusader ......................... ....
        and ......................... ......................... ...
        christoph schnelle ......................... .......
        a robbing hood ......................... ............

        aliASS ......................... .......................
        lostman and boy blunder .......................

        spat ......................... ......................... ..

        another "anonymous" calderschnelle'ism ..

        "watch" as they foam at the "mouth" .......

        Reply
Jatinder Singh: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
WWW: nothin yet!!
Email: jatcme@hotmail.com
Date: Aug 18, 2006, 15:54
Hello -- My Heartiest regards to you all including Calder

very interesting debate going on here and I thought of chipping in with my diary of thoughts from the collection of (my) mind.

1. Calder I feel has some very strong, deep and uncoscious resentment that turned into poisoning his awareness with skepticism and right/wrong. Now -- If he is writing on the web so much against a group, cult etc. and not been able to believe in individuality of every human being --- That is his Catharsis and I think it's good for him to constantly pouring out and clear up the poison inside. Root of this poisonous tree is the resentment that he has and his notion of right/wrong -- true/false expanded by his so called intelligence.

He sounds like a good man and Let most of us be with him as friends rather than fill our hearts with criticism and hatred towards Calder. Let's help him to vent out his repressed emotions.
----------------------- ------------------------- ----
Understanding the basics of living and being human and consiousness has made a huge difference in my life where I was suffering intensely. ---- Thankyou all

Reply
    p.r.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
    Date: Aug 25, 2006, 18:28

    "jatinder" ...... a priest in "waiting" ............

    "singh'ing" .... a healing ' him ' ..................

    &qu ot;singh" your "thoughts" directly to calder ..

    ........ jatcme@hotmail.com ..........to .......
    ..calderhome@yah oo.com .......................
    ..c.c. to ...............schnelle ............at.......
    .. .......aaqws@hotmail.com ......................


    and "help" each other "vent out" ...............

    three piously pontificating priests ..............

    in a "holey" trinity of arrogance .................

    Reply
Alok Singh: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: alok.singh@lehman.com
Date: Sep 2, 2006, 16:34
Hi All,

First of all my regards to chris and all of them
now i will ask only one question to Cal.. that
in your article you mention that you feel like
heaven in the presence of rajneesh(Osho) and
you put right way of meditation also as
dynamic meditation according to you

So can you please Tell me one thing that do you have the ability to expand your self like those days with osho .....

Love And regards
Alok





Reply
    babu: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Date: Sep 19, 2006, 5:56
    "Or, as one five-year-old boy in Rajneesh’s Poona center complained: �Fuck, fuck, fuck, all we ever do is fuck!�

    At least one �older and wiser� six-year-old girl in the same community, however, saw things from a more adult perspective; for she

    delighted in grabbing men’s genitals through their robes. Another offered to suck the penis of every man she saw in the public showers (Franklin, 1992).

    Of course, that situation did not improve upon Rajneesh’s messianic move to America, where one could easily find three-year-old girls sobbing their hearts out to their mothers:

    None of the boys will fuck me!.... It’s not fair! Just because I wear diapers they won’t fuck me. They said I’m a baby! (in Franklin, 1992).

    To that, the mother’s patient response was simply an encouragement to her child to stop wetting herself at night, at which point she would not have to wear diapers anymore.

    �Problem solved.�

    With the additional penchant of early-teenage girls in Rajneesh’s America for sleeping with men twice their age, Franklin went on to note:

    Scores of ranch swamis would have been considered child molesters out in the world."

    This is from 'Stripping the Gurus' where Ma Satya Bharati is quoted here (Franklin) can someone please address this ....?

    I mean I love so much of what Osho said but hearing this just leaves a bad taste in my mouth...



    Reply
Shunya Kaya: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: shunyakaya@yahoo.co.in
Date: Sep 19, 2006, 9:52
I would just like to say that all this guy Christopher Calder is trying to do is attract attention and what could be a better way for that than talking against Osho, the master of masters of masters. It is like someone questioning the ways of Buddha or Mahavira or even Gurdjieff. A stupid mortal like him can do nothing better. But I feel such people should be declared retarded and 'below human' by us. And just imagine this assole is a former Osho disciple. I wonder if that is true. And if true, then his stupidity attains almost gigantic proportions. It is like a two-dimensional man (I don't think this guy can be aware even of the third dimension), judging a 7-dimensional super-being.

What more to say of an utter idiot. Please, I request all Osho disciples to ignore this sub-human's sheer stupidities in the future...

Shunyakaya

Reply
    babu: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Date: Sep 19, 2006, 19:03
    That last post was not from Chris Calder....

    I have read this in 'The Promise of Paradise' by (Satya Bharti Franklin) 1992 ... who also wrote 'Drunk on the Divine'...

    I took sannyas by mail in 1994...All I want is to hear someone address this from her book, she is well known..

    again this is not Chris Calder...

    babu

    Reply
sw. antar kailash: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Sep 20, 2006, 15:49
christopher here is a hug from everyone here to you. i learnt one thing from osho if not many and that is to love,love , love and love unconditionaly. i think you simply need some love in ur life. so here s a hug from each of us. god bless you.
second, you said urself that osho is a long gone etc. so why spend time in writing after him. if i were you and if i had believs like you then , i would rather do some positive work for humanity and do something to shower love in people's lives.

i dont care about meditation and englighments etc. a person with a heart full of love and compassion is much more needed in today's age. so i never arugment with anyone. i simply go and hug them and send them flowers. just like osho wanted to. lets not spread hate in this forum. i encourage everyone here to send one hug to christopher and let him feel the power of love.

love you all. let the dance continue ....

Reply
    kinkazzo: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    WWW: Apologetics and Calder
    Email: kinkazzo@yahoo.it
    Date: Oct 3, 2006, 13:29
    I think Christopher Calder is doing what must have been done after Christ's death by disciples (st Paul - who actually "created" Christ) and historiographers (e.g. Livy).
    It is needed, indeed it is.
    Cooling after the fact and assessing. Sure enough.

    No doubt Osho (and all his akas) was a clever and passionate man, somehow enlightened I'd say (but then we would have to enter into a specific debate about defining "enlightenment" ). Let's just say he had charisma, an enticing way of dealing with expectant people, and knew his literature. He filled a gap for the times - and young WASPs responded excitedly.
    Then all went up shitcreek, because he lost control: his revolution was too big for himself, people took advantage, money was flowing and... when that happens...well you know... money is the Mammon - the only True God for most. So: ruin in the States, retreat back to his Indian shores (or mountains rather), his brain no longer so functional and alert as it used to be... pity.
    Still, he had presence, hypnotic contact with his followers, and was...er...nice to look at!
    With him gone, only his industry is left. Again, it will follow in miniature what occurred to the Christian/Catholic Church... a machine in motion to acquire more power and more people... losing its fundamental reason d'etre in the process.

    Hey, Christopher, I think you've done a good job: others will too, whenever the occasion arises...

    Ciao
    -K
    an d have a look at this: http://kinkazzosho.blogsp ot.com



    Reply
      p.r.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
      Date: Oct 7, 2006, 11:27

      .. kink kazoo .... aliASS .... daub smear .......

      .. another self proclaiming priest ...................

      .. pontificating in blogspots of plagiarism ........

      .. now whining "help me" ......................... .....

      .. whilst "looking" for "parallels" in mirrors ......

      .. of calderschnelle arrogance ........................


      .. kink kazoo .... aliASS .... daub smear ........

      .. an obsequious self flatterer ........................


      .. at the "nadir" of "his" life ......................... ...

      Reply
frank: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: franklee@yahoo.com
Date: Oct 9, 2006, 17:04
hi mocliam.
you are such a creative and clear guy.
i think what you say is brilliant.
so perceptive.
we need more contributors like you.
keep up the genius work


Reply
Anado Mclauchlin: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: anado@madebyanado.com
Date: Oct 11, 2006, 17:57
I can't believe this dribble...on both sides. Osho is dead and gone...EVERYBODY: Get a life!

Reply
    p.r.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
    Date: Oct 17, 2006, 11:46
    .. as he "get's a life" ......................... .....

    .. under "EVERYBODY's" prognosis .......

    .. in scribbles of petulant disdain .............

    .. 'anado' "I can't believe this ..................

    .. dribbles" on ......................... ..............

    .. the 'Mclauchlin' family name .................

    Reply
John: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: syf_usa@yahoo.com
Date: Oct 16, 2006, 18:22
I have come across more recent posting at other internet sites by Christopher Calder throwing same old dust and poison at Osho and Osho's people.
Christopher Calder is very systematically trying to spread a propaganda and intentionally creating a misunderstanding
and a fear for any new comer to the world of Osho. I do not think Christopher is just like any another honest Osho hater but to me
Christopher Calder's behavior is more like a CIA agent because:-
1. He is adopting a systematic middle path of sometime praising Osho and then ultimately creating a fear and negativity in a common man.
2. He is desperately promoting his home page which can be easily seen throughout his article and later posts/comments.
3. He is defending Government and denying any poisoning to Osho.
4. He is trying to mask himself as anti-US and anti-Bush etc. which most of the time is a out of context discussion and
he starts it out of nowhere.

Also it can be easily seen the cunningness in his attitude as below:-

1. He has very easily believed in the theories sex and drugs in Osho from the statements of third persons but at the same
time he does not want to believe anything which Osho said directly without basis of scientific proofs.
2. Different slow poisons have different symptoms and also based on the dosage of poison given, same can work differently.
In Osho's case, His body did far better being Him is in high spirit and in the atmosphere of the love of His people.
But still Osho's hair got all white very early as compared to his father and or normal body behavior. Also the symptoms
were there in other parts of his body including teeth and ears. But this Christopher Calder wants all the Osho hair
to be fallen before he can believe in slow poison as if Christopher himself has tasted thallium and has the perfect experience how it
works.

Wherever there are flowers there are thorns. Wherever there are Christs, there are Judases. Whenever there are Oshos, there are
Christopher-Calders.



Reply
    p.r.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
    Date: Oct 19, 2006, 12:33
    ..
    .. the 'american' "vested interests" ..............

    .. are tolerant of "calder's" ......................... .

    .. the 'american' "vested interests" ..............

    .. are dismissive of "john's" ........................

    Reply
babu: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Oct 17, 2006, 6:55
What about babu...you just want to disregard my questions by saying I am Chris Calder....

nice con game...

I am not Chris Calder and just coz someone has questions about what ex-sannyasins wrote like Ma Satya Bharati..you shouldn't lump them all into a 'Chris Calder Pot'. obvioulsy there were somje questioning sannyasins around way before mr cc....

dont be sheep with blinders and think all you question are ..."THEM"...


think about it at least...

babu

what the hell is wrong with you people?

Osho spoke of freedom you all treat him as if he was Jesus

Reply
John: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: syf_usa@yahoo.com
Date: Oct 17, 2006, 17:48
Babu,The purpose of my writing was to say something about Christopher Calder who is a very organized agent desperately working full time on the internet to spread a psychological friction in the mind of a common person who is new comer to the Osho world.

I am not saying, babu, you are one of Christopher-Calders. May be it is Christopher Calder himself writing again under the new
name of "babu".

I remember to read a statement from somebody on net " Christopher Calder was never a true disciple of Osho.
He was never a sanyassin. He was just an onlooker. He is still a slave of his own little mind and does not know what love is,what Sanyaas is , what a Guru-Disciple relationship is and what no-mindness is. His mind is that of a cunning politician who always thinks in terms of Indian/American,white/bla ck"

Also I do not think we should spend much energy on the mind-oriented people and their cunning strategies and propoganda.
We should remain Guru-oriented and should open our hearts and spread love and name of Guru all over the world. New age is "Osho Age" and it has already appeared on the horizon. All the bogus religions are losing all the appeal on the Earth and Osho is smiling looking upon the earth to see
his blissful people singing and dancing everywhere. Future is all of Osho.


Reply
    p.r.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
    Date: Oct 19, 2006, 12:43
    ..
    .. " the purpose of ......................... .............."

    . . " I am not saying ......................... ........... "

    .. " I remember to ......................... ............. "

    .. " john " ...... tolerant of " calder's " .............


    .. " Also I do not think ......................... ....... "

    .. " We should remain ......................... ....... "

    .. 'john' .. dismissive of the " vested interests "


    .. the " vested interests " yawn on ................


    .. now ............. move ......................... ........


    Reply
    babu: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Date: Oct 24, 2006, 7:23
    stop turning osho into jesus or a deity you can do puja to...

    babu


    Reply
      John: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      Date: Oct 24, 2006, 18:01
      Do not worry Babu. Nobody can make Osho a Jesus. Osho was well aware of it and listening to his discourse on f*ck and
      all his revolutionary talks, nobody can dare to put him in the box like a jesus.

      But at the same time, it does not mean you can misinterpret the historical facts around Osho to befool humanity and create a fear and friction between a common man and Osho. Osho is for every human being on Earth and a great hope for the survival of Earth and humanity. The section of organized religions and fundamentalists is intentionally trying to spread propaganda so that a common man is scared of Osho. The movie �Guru� was a part of this strategy as well. All these people are working very desperately to detach a common man from Osho so that they can continue to dominate masses and keep people in the clutches of their organized religions.
      Osho! Ya-Hoo!!!




      Reply
adhir bodhi: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: adhir_light@yahoo.co.in
Date: Mar 25, 2007, 19:07
hello chris,
i`m reading all the stuff for years apart from this i read millions of scintific reaserch papers in the last 20 years i must tell u this very fact that even enlightenment is a serious psychological problem akind of hallucination where ur frontal lobe functions abnormal this very fact had been proved very scintificaly by allowing 36 healthy people free from any psycological deficits are enjoyed a trip of enlightenment like experienc at jones hopkins university school of medicine baltimor conducted by r.r. griffith ps remember the artical of german herald editorial stating that man can not make any object flying on the eve of right brothers historic first aeroplane flight.

Reply
ANDY: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: shankargaur@yahoo.com
Date: Mar 27, 2007, 22:30
Calder,

Forget Osho, if you were to follow Buddha's teaching, STOP JUDGING and start practicing what u preach.

If you are just like CNN or BBC then I have not complaints as I switch these channels off as I find them nothing more than barking dogs.

Reply
Nirvana Kr: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: purodha@yahoo.com
Date: Apr 5, 2007, 8:47
Very Interesting. After a long time...I could read something with patience and enjoyment.

3 Cheers for getting me involved as a reader in yr attempts.

take care.

Reply
Nirvana Kr.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: purodha@yahoo.com
Date: Apr 5, 2007, 8:56
It appears as some people know FACTS and some are capable of extracting new FACTS/TRUTHS from them.

I wish Car/Rocket was here even Newton did not exist.
I wish JHTENDGTY was not here because 'Thwsg Gthedfvg' did not exist.



Reply
ma prem vineeta: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: sabinegarry@aol.com
Date: Jul 10, 2007, 10:29
after reading all the different posts i understand the story of the blind men who are experts in discribing how an elephant looks like based on the parts they touch with their hands, and than endlessly argue among themselfs about it. some got stuck with the tail end and sitting in the giant pile of elephant poop, like Krishna Christ, describing the Truth of elephant Hahahahha Its very funny.Wake up people and stop throwing shit around claiming it to be the elephant.

Reply
Raghav: e-mail me
Email: sunnysunny@mail.ru
Date: Jul 25, 2007, 14:11
My Namaskaar to all the sanyasins and osho followers. Can someone guide me that from which book or article of Osho could I find the detail meaning of this sentence if it was ever said by Bhagwan. ``What you tell them is true, but what I tell them (the useful lies) is good for them." Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh 1975
If possible kindly please send me the referance book and article , so that I can read Bhagwan personal view point about these words. What I think is that bhagwan is just talking not directly about the Nirwana but about the hints to reach there which are just like the ways to reach the truth , while the ways itself cannot explain the real truth. But still I would like to read the detail view point of Bhagwan on this sentence if it was said by him. Thanks and waiting for response



Reply
Raghav: RE:kindly send me the link
Email: dr_sunny1977@yahoo.co.uk
Date: Jul 25, 2007, 14:37
My Namaskaar to all the sanyasins and osho followers. Can someone guide me that from which book or article of Osho could I find the detail meaning of this sentence if it was ever said by Bhagwan. ``What you tell them is true, but what I tell them (the useful lies) is good for them." Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh 1975
If possible kindly please send me the referance book and article , so that I can read Bhagwan personal view point about these words. What I think is that bhagwan is just talking not directly about the Nirwana but about the hints to reach there which are just like the ways to reach the truth , while the ways itself cannot explain the real truth. But still I would like to read the detail view point of Bhagwan on this sentence if it was said by him. Thanks and waiting for response



Reply
Raghav: hello
Email: dr_sunny1977@yahoo.co.uk
Date: Jul 25, 2007, 14:40
What I was asking was to just tell me the name of the book so that I could find it and may be read the article

Reply
Bob: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Jul 25, 2007, 17:12
Here is a web page here surprisingly you will find same to same just word to word ,, same story about Osho which is published in other web sites by a person called Christopher ,,, here the name of same person is Yen Phuong ,, I think he is just functioning by changing his names.

Reply
Bob: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Jul 25, 2007, 17:13
Here is a web page here surprisingly you will find same to same just word to word ,, same story about Osho which is published in other web sites by a person called Christopher ,,, here the name of same person is Yen Phuong ,, I think he is just functioning by changing his names.

http://community.viet fun.com/archive/index.php /t-307385.html

Reply
    Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: athomson@gmail.com
    Date: Jul 25, 2007, 23:16
    I have been reading Mr calder´s work for some time now. I am a university schollar.I am not , nor have ever been a disciple
    Ib have been doing research on osho / rajneesh´s work for over 22 years. I have interviewed lots of his earlyst disciples as well as forme ones. I visited poona 8 times. I think some of the points with calder´s articles are interesting, but most of them are just fabricatons and suppositions from him. Quoting rajneesh nowadays means nothing. The man spoke for 35 years and you can find a quote for anything, from gardening to parenting to wall papers. Unless you have the whole chapter´s content of a quote it loses any value.
    I personally spoke to the team of doctors who saw rajneesh on his late illeness. They came up with the idea of thalium, due to the fact that his symtoms were classicals of poisoning by a heavy metal ( not nitrous oxide exposure). Thalium is the only one that can not be traced after some times.And the loss of hair is not in the beard… that is simply stupid. The hair loss is always up in the head. Regarding rajneesh´s use of drugs. Most of the information comes from Hugh milne´s book. Milne fabricates several stories that is too long for now to describe. I know this because I personally talked to a lot of people mentioned in his book, including former girlfriends who refute his stories and also add that he was really angry and hurt and was pushed by the editors to exagerate or add some more color to the stories. The facts: Rajneesh used laughing gas as a sedative during his dental sesions. Never alone or in other circumstances. His personbal dentist and as?­stant can be a witness to it. They would have never allowed someone with such a delicate health, we must remember that people were sniffed to come a meter close to him, to inhale nitrus oxide unless it was necesary. The sory of the man drugged all the time is a fabrication...or a supposition of mr: Calder.
    In relation to mr Calder´s theory of the tiredness symdrom as a cause for his health. There is no such a thing as a proven scientific fact. Recently a Georgia´s court in the USA dismissed a case arguing this illness for lacking of scientific truth.
    Mr Calder´s article feels like a resentful lover, like someone deeply hurt or dissapointed... well if I would have got the name KrishnaChist...I would certainly be quite angry.
    One last point. Calder mocks the development of psychotherpeutic groups with a trnspersonal orientation such as they developed around rajneesh. The worls of western humanistic-transpersonal psychotherapy changed for eber due to Rajneesh input and experimentation in this area. this has beed documented in several scientific papers in the field of modern psychotherapy
    Anthony Thompson Ph. D.


    Reply
      Christopher Calder: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      WWW: home.att.net/~meditation
      Email: calderhome@yahoo.com
      Date: Aug 3, 2007, 19:07
      Anthony Thompson Ph.D has piled allot of misinformation and lies into just a few paragraphs. A "Ph D" does not mean much if the person is basically dishonest at his core. Rajneesh's illegal drug use is well documented and was finally admitted to by his dentist. See the links and documentation on my page on Rajneesh-Osho at:

      http://home.att.ne t/~meditation/Osho.html

      People want to believe in saints and superheros, but there are only fallible human animals made from DNA sculptured mud. I once wrote about the mud people, and have pasted those words below.
      ----------------- ---------------------
      Th e mud people of planet earth

      Human beings are literally made of mud, a mixture of earth and water, intricately woven through complex chemistry to create tissue, organs, and bone. All the basic atomic elements in the human body can be found in the mud we come from, and all life forms on earth are made of the same basic materials through the blueprint of DNA.

      Beware the myths of the brain

      The human brain is intelligent enough to realize that as soon as we are born the clock starts ticking on our finite life span. Plants, insects, mammals, and all life forms on earth have finite life spans, because we are all made of a complex mixture of earth and water, not some invincible metal that cannot rot, burn, be crushed, or torn apart. Even our own personal DNA breaks down over time, and the human structure collapses along with the very blueprint that created it.

      To counter the fear of our inevitable death, the brain creates myths of souls, reincarnation, saviors, Gods, and heavens. The myths act as morphine and dull the fear of death, but they also lead to war, mind control, and larceny on a grand scale. The human brain is capable of accepting facts or creating myths to hide the real facts. In the long run, it is better to choose fact over myth, because then at least you know who and where you are.

      If you judge humans using the mythical spiritual model, then we all look like failures, creatures with supernatural souls who just cannot seem to evolve enough to end wars, corruption, and conflict. If, on the other hand, you look at humans as the mud people of planet earth, then you are amazed at how far we actually have come. Mud creatures can enjoy cosmic consciousness, build civilizations and advanced technology, and they transfer their knowledge from one generation of mud people to the next. In that more realistic light, we are not doing so bad, considering we are all just very complicated hunks of animated, living, breathing, very wet soil.

      see: http://home.att.net/~medi tation/soul.html

      Christopher Calder


      Reply
Klaus S: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: klause@bredband.net
Date: Aug 2, 2007, 17:13
Christopher, I think you are a brave and clear-minded man, but I think you get somewhat too "atheistic". There are more things than mere "rumours" aiding the hope of finding a heart and mind in the center of the Universe. Personally I am a hopeful agnostic regarding that. While it's true that UG Krishnamurti debunked most everything, J Krishnamurti did not do that. If you read his conversations with physicist D Bohm, he speaks of metaphysical stuff like the human mind beyond the individual mind, beyond that the Universal mind, the Void and the ground beyond that. "Intelligent? Oh, Yes." he commented upon that. He also said in an interview for a Swedish newspaper in the beginning of the eighties, that scientist would not find the cre of the mind inside the skull, "it goes beyond the brain".
I'm not arguing that these sayings of J Krishnamurti settles things once and for all, you might be right in your beliefs, but it is not truthful to align J.K. with an all-materialistic worldview.
Regarding Osho - I felt bad about that guy already in the seventies, I felt he was a seducer, but I also get the impression from reading the "conversation" here that you are so utterly disappointed and angered that you are at risk of falling in the ditch on the other side of the road. Remeber the words of Martin Luther: "Man is like a drunkard who wiggles from one ditch to the other, often falling into them"

moc.liamtoh at - do you have a mental disorder or are you some kind of a Gollum-figure? Meaningless, repetitive, fragmented echoes from what others said. Really tragic.

With regards

Klaus S

Reply
    p.r.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
    Date: Aug 3, 2007, 17:38

    .klauS S ......................... ......................... ...

    another arrogant calderschnelle priest ...........

    .pompously pontificate ......................... ........

    .ends as he starts ......................... ..............

    .with a paragraph containing .........................

    .meaningless, repetitive, fragmented, echoes .

    .from what others said ......................... .........




    Reply
    Christopher Calder: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    WWW: home.att.net/~meditation
    Email: calderhome@yahoo.com
    Date: Aug 3, 2007, 20:46
    Klaus S.,

    Both Krishnamurtis were products of Hindu Indian culture, and their brains were deeply affected by their surroundings and upbringing. In his early years, J. Krishnamurti talked of “walking with God” and "reincarnation." ; In his later years, following the same pattern as Ramana Maharshi, J. Kishnamurti rejected all of that supernatural stuff and only talked about the brain, the cosmos, consciousness, the things that actually exist in fact, not just in religious fiction. Religious fiction in the East is a mixing up of cosmic consciousness, which is a very real phenomena, with the romantic part of the brain which was created by evolution to make us fall in love so we can procreate and continue the species. The same internal brain wiring that creates sexuality and romantic love, with all its unrealistic fantasies, also creates the Harry Potter style myths of religious superheros, saints, Gods, souls, reincarnation, etc. Romance is great fun, but we all have to grow up some day, and J. Krishnamurti grew up and rejected any idea of God or “soul”, and so did U.G. Krishnamurti and Ramana Maharshi. Even Rajneesh-Osho finally admitted there was no reincarnation, even though reincarnation was the very basis of his life's teaching. Without soul and reincarnation, nothing he said made any sense, and he finally admitted that in essence, his entire life's teaching was false and ridiculous. The drugs he took allowed him to briefly tell the truth, even if that truth would harm his guru business.

    All the great cosmic men we admire so much had phases in their lives and brain development, just like we do. They all made foolish mistakes of judgment in their youth, just like we did. When the raging sexual hormones of youth diminish, and the brain becomes more sober, then the sages can more accurately report that “It’s all in the brain” (quote from U.G., but J.K. said the same thing in different words).

    The average brain weighs only about 3 pounds, and is largely made of hydrocarbon atom strings. The hydrogen and carbon atoms in your brain were created in stars and supernova explosions. Our brains ARE cosmic, and what they become aware of becomes part of the brain itself. When you look at the stars on a clear night in the country, you are overwhelmed. There are billions of visible stars and galaxies that are so far away that their light took centuries to travel the great distances of space to finally land on the retinas of your eyes. Your 3 pound hunk of organic, living brain tissue is connected to all of the stars in the universe, and one cannot really say where the brain ends and the universe, with its infinite numbers of stars, begins. You cannot have a brain alone without all the rest of the universe which created it.

    You interact with humans every day, and you are aware of the 6.7 billion people on earth in a multitude of ways, and those billions of people become part of your brain as well, and all add to the collective unconscious. None of us exist alone, and we are all vast beings with consciousness that extends to the far reaches of the universe. The dividing lines of life are subjective creations of utility. The grand cosmic picture makes us alive, creates us, and when we see the grand cosmic picture, we realize that we are it, not separate. That is what J. Krishnamurti meant when he said that consciousness "goes beyond the brain."

    Christoph er

    Reply
      Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      Date: Aug 6, 2007, 0:06
      Dear
      Mr. Calder
      Dear Mr. Calder. I do not think Osho was super human. I do not judge his behaviour in those terms. I do not have more misinformation than you have: That is second hand knowledge of the facts I was not a wittness to. Such as Rajneesh using drugs. His dentist, Dvageet did not admit to what you say. I personally talked to him, which you did not do. And he said that he used nitrous oxide during dental sessions, which is when he dictated to him the books “glimpses of a golden childhood” and “notes of a mad man”, under the effect of this drug. Rajneesh never used the gas outside this enviroment.And this was confirmed by his doctor,his caretaker and by his dentist. What you said is not right and , again is based only on Milne´s book. A second hand source...
      The rest of your article is just suppositions and personal opinions. You never had any personal contact with rajneesh, except from the time in woodlands, so what you suppose he did in his room is just supposition. I am not a psycho-.neurologist so I can not discusse your opinions on brain functioning, but, sir, I am an expert on rajneesh and I can tell the difference between facts an opinions. Rajneesh was no god… enlightenment I can not judge. I do not even know if this exist. But This man contributed to the field of Transpersonal psychology in a way that can only be compared to Freud in relation to the psychodynamic theory field. You mention that the inclusion of growth groups in his ashram was to get Money. I can not judge his intentions… mine and yours are only opinions. But what I can judge was the impact of this revolutionary experiment in the field of therapy… And it was enormous.
      Again, Rajneesh´s quotes can today only be analysed in the whole context of a chapter …not out of it. The man did something great for the evolution of mankind. This is my opinion after my research. Again, I am not his disciple…. I am nobody´s disciple.
      I can state my opinios but if we talk about “Truths”, either lost or not , we can not mix suppositions with facts. And that is what you do.
      Fact: the man died at an early age of an illness which symtoms seemed like heavy metal poisoning such as thalium. This was said by an internacional team of non sannyasins doctors.
      Fact: His personal dentist an eye witnesses stated he used this drug only during dental sessions… weather he liked it or not… i do not know… I supposse he did.
      He used valium a couple of times as a pain killer. As it was reported to me by his doctor amrito
      Your assumptions: He took laughing gas beyond the normal, he took too much valium… died of its effects.
      Now, if he lied or not…i do not know. Neither do you.
      I am open to disscusse point by point your suppositions on any subject related to rajneesh… just mention a subject.. and here we go…
      Regards
      Anthony Thompson



      Reply
      p.r.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
      Date: Aug 6, 2007, 17:13

      . calderklauSSchnelle ......................... .........

      . in unctuous union ......................... .............

      . excrementally emerging from 'mud' .............

      . spitting sermons of sediment .....................

      . with paragraphs pf platitudes .....................

      . ("meaningless,repeti tive, fragmented echoes

      . of what others said ") ......................... .......

      . baited with hollow hooks of hubris ..............

      . "people 'want' to believe " ......................... ..
      . "human beings are 'literally made' of mud "...
      . "beware the 'myths' of the brain ".................
      . "the human brain is intelligent 'enough' ".......
      . "to counter the 'fear' " ......................... ........
      . "both krishnamurti's were 'products' " ...........
      . "all the 'great' cosmic men 'we' admire " .......
      . "the 'average' brain " ......................... ..........
      . of calder ends by "interacting with 'humans' "

      . aliASS klauSSschnelle ......................... .....

      . that muddily metamorphose into .................

      . "low tusses" of arrogant self-aggrandisement

      . calder .... a self proclaimed mud of a man ....

      Reply
phil: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email:
Date: Aug 6, 2007, 22:58
chris calder,
you say osho `s denist admited that osho took illegal drugs.
the dentist clearly did not say this

why are you lying?
you have many interesting,challenging things to say about osho,mysticism and religion,so why are you lying?

maybe you believe that it is neccesary to lie for people`s own good.

sounds familiar?

you are fond of saying that `all osho peopleare dishonest`

oh dear,mr kris christ.
you should never have taken sannyas should you?you are one of us,then!?

i feel that you could make a breakthrough in your consciousness if you could self-accept your own lying self.

see you in the mud flats of eternity.
all the best,

Reply
sahyo: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Aug 8, 2007, 21:52
chris

you can attempt to prove/disprove osho,
but there wasn't/isn't any'one'



:)


Reply
    Anthont Thompson Ph. D.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Date: Aug 9, 2007, 0:42
    I thought to solve out the nitrous oxide controversy I would reproduce part of a letter that Devageet, osho´s private dentist said about this subject that Mr . Calder is suppose to be quoting:
    "Osho never used nitrous oxide, I used it, as his dentist, during his dental treatment sessions. Osho, as other masters have demonstrated ( see Nikhilananda taking a massive dose of LSD on his first meeting with Guru Ram Dass, and showing no effects whatsoever), showed that the effects of Nitrous Oxide during his dental treatment had no effects of diminishing his clarity and awareness. He repeatedly showed that he could easily use the physiological effects of relaxation for a creative purpose, hence the three books dictated while in the dental chair: Notes of a Madman, Books I have loved, and Glimpses of a Golden Childhood.
    Having said that I can speak about aspects which do not betray that trust. Nitrous Oxide is a valid and valued analgesic and anaesthetic agent, as you know, and it still provides the basis of anaesthetic techniques because of its proven track record of safety and efficacy. It is a fact too that people have used it for leisure purposes. Osho was given nitrous oxide in a purely dental context."
    This is an eyewitness account of the subject. Not second hand information.
    This was taken fromna a letter sent to a forum called Osho beyond bondage.
    I am waiting for mr calder´s reply,
    Anthony Thompson PH.D.


    Reply
      Christopher Calder: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      WWW: home.att.net/~meditation/Osho.html
      Email: calderhome@yahoo.com
      Date: Aug 12, 2007, 4:20
      Devageet is a crazy person. Years ago he denied to me emphatically that Rajneesh used NO2 except for dental surgery, and then a few months later he publicly admitted on a Osho Web forum that he gave Rajneesh N02 for months on end, and that Rajneesh used the drug because it "increased his creativity." No one dictates books while having dental surgery, and no dental surgery lasts for months. Rajneesh took 60 milligrams of Valium every day for years as well.
      Osho's drug use was documented by the FBI.

      See:

      http://www.sannyasnew s.com/Articles/OshoDental Chair.html - Osho in the Dental Chair

      Rajneesh had nitrous oxide spigots installed by his bed at the ranch in Oregon. Did he have dental surgery in bed?

      See:

      http://ho me.att.net/~meditation/We aver.html -Jim Weaver's first hand account of Osho's NO2 spigots at the ranch

      For a Ph.D. you have very poor reading comprehension skills, and you are not an honest human being. On my Web page I never said that Osho died of a Valium overdose, I said that the official cause of his death was listed as heart failure, but there was much speculation he committed suicide. If he did commit suicide, I am sure they used morphine or barbiturates, not Valium, which is not lethal except in massive doses.

      Please, the debate about Osho's drug use is over, except for the most insane followers. Rajneesh was a drug addict, and I have received letters from dozens of sannyasins who were at the ranch and in Poona who confirm this proven fact. I knew Rajneesh in Bombay and in Poona until August of 1975. When I visited the Oregon ranch in the 1980s I could tell he was on drugs just by looking at him. No one even had to tell me. Rajneesh was destroyed by illness and by his own drug use, but what killed his teaching was his dishonesty. No one could rationalize lying and criminal behavior like Rajneesh. His teaching was false, and his guru empire collapsed from the weight of its own corruption. It is a sad story, but those are the facts.

      Christopher Calder
      http://home.att.n et/~meditation/


      Reply
        Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: response to Mr. calder
        Date: Aug 12, 2007, 22:01
        Mr. Calder. If you wish to be so kind to tell me where Devageet says that osho took "N02 for months on end". Because I have not found where he said so. Moreover, what he said in the Osho forum was what I quoted before.
        The FBI information on how much valium Osho took came from an Interview that Sheela gave to the Stern magazine in Germany... that was their source. They also tryed to get this information reseraching on how much valium was the commune bying on a monthly basis. The records they got where the records for a 5000 people community. So it is hard to say who was getting the valium and in what quantity... so they guess it what all for rajneesh. the only two people with access to such information where vivek and devaraj and i doubt anyone of them gave you such information. vivek is dead and devaraj, amrito, told me otherwise.
        The article you quote from the FBI is just a guess on their part based on Milne´s book. How can you tell when you have "spigots installed by his bed at the ranch in Oregon" that these are for NO2 ? How do we know it even had spogots? Just guess work. And if it was the case what the hell was he calling dental sessions for... he could have just relaxed in his bed... or why have "all the teeth removed" to get access to NO2, as you suggest, if he had it by the bed. If he has it in the rach , so in poona two, no?
        I do not think any debate is over, and again I am not a follower just a research investigator.
        You were never close to rajneesh. Visiting poona or the ranch means you only saw him on stage... difficult to know what he did in private. So you could tell he was on drugs? Wow.. perceptive. How? by the way he walked? he spoke? his eyes?... and this from 40 meters far away... I do not think you got from seat at the ranch. And then, after you saw him stoned he was able to drive back to his house in the rach roads completley drugged with valium and N02. if he could do that in those conditions that would simple means he was enlightened for sure... I do not know anyone who can do that. Please sir, just guess work and fantasy on your side.
        what is said in sannyas news is also guess work from Parmartha. I can not confirm what the dozen of sannyasins told you from the ranch. But I can say that the only people who had personal access to rajneesh during that time were sheela, vivek, devageet, devaraj, ashu, hasya, Isabel and aseema. Now you tell me whom of these people told you what they saw.?

        And the last thing... his empire as you call it not only did not collapse it got a boost. osho´s books are sold more than ever... there are over 100 titles in spanish and and millions are sold world wide. His commune in poona is packed with more that 6000 people all the time, most of them are not sannyasins.
        finnaly I would like to reproduce a quote from alal, one of devageet´s assistants:
        Just a few comments on the above story, to put it in to perspective, spetiually in realation to Parmartha article that you quote.

        "It is assumed throughout the article that Osho 'regularly used nitrous oxide' in the dental chair, without any clarification of what 'regularly' means. It could mean once or twice a year. But the assumption, or rather, the implication here is that it was on a daily basis. One does not get nitrous poisoning just by using it a few times a year. And yet there is absolutely no evidence that Osho used laughing gas more than that. Nor that he had nitrous poisoning. We are just asked to accept this as "fact".
        So, first, lets take away that assumption....

        By the end of the fifth paragraph Parmartha is already talking about "Osho's addiction" based on the above assumption. As an indirect support he introduces Gurdjieff's "addiction" to alcohol and food. After all, Masters, they are all the same aren't they?
        By the eigth paragraph we've entered the realm of conspiracy theory, the Inner Circle are attempting a cover up, again, without any evidence to back it up.

        We finally end up in the Conclusion, where it is assumed that the case is proven. Anyone who disagrees is obviously in a state of denial: enlightend and drugs! Shock horror! We hear that Gurdjief quaffed two bottles of Armagnac a day and Jesus liked "more than a glass of wine a day", nudge nudge, know what I mean.

        To me, this whole piece is smoke and mirrors. State something as a fact with no proof and then build upon that "fact", bringing in what,in law is called "circumstantial evidence" to support the theory.

        I'm not saying its wrong, I just want to point out that it has no solid foundation underneath it.

        FWIW, during the Ranch and in Poona 2 I was the dental room technician, responsible for looking after the equipment. Unless Osho was having surreptitious sessions without my knowledge, he wasn't using gas on a daily, or even weekly basis. He did have an annoying tendency to want a session at strange times (6am in the morning?) but that was Devageets problem.
        Love jalal"
        I am waiting for your reply Mr. Calder.
        Anthony Thompson Ph. D.

        Reply
          Christopher Calder: RE:response to Mr. calder
          WWW: home.att.net/~meditation/Osho.html
          Email: calderhome@yahoo.com
          Date: Aug 13, 2007, 2:05
          Anthony, I can tell from your writing that you are crazy person too. You have to be crazy to say the things you say and claim to be a "scholar." Nowhere do I suggest Rajneesh had his teeth removed to obtain access to N20 (nitrous oxide). He could get all he wanted just by asking for it. You cannot even read or think straight and yet you claim to be a Ph.D. Osho went insane, and why he had most of his teeth removed is a mystery. The only reason I suspected was that he thought perhaps his mercury fillings were poisoning him. That was my speculation, which I clearly stated was speculation.

          You are in denial and you are a crazy person. The whole Osho cult is full of neurotic, dishonest people who cannot think clearly and who have no interest in the facts. Many people at Poona saw the nitrous oxide canisters piled up at Rajneesh's bungalow, and they knew what it was for. He was not having dentistry done every day. Osho admitted his N20 use and talked about it openly. The FBI had records of how much N20 was delivered to the ranch. The Valium was smuggled in from Mexico.

          The point is Osho people are a cult that rejects truth in favor of fantasy. It is like trying to tell a Christian fanatic that Jesus was not born by virgin birth and could not walk on water. If you cannot stand the realities of life you retreat into fantasy, and your mind will come up with all kinds of excuses to persevere that fantasy, no matter how ridiculous. You need to grow up, and stop trying to make excuses for corrupt gurus.

          If you say I was never close to Osho, then just ask Ma Yoga Mukta, Ma Yoga Karuna, Swami Yoga Chinmaya, Ravi, or even Ma Yoga Laxmi. All of the early people know better. You can lie all day and make ridiculous statements about things you know nothing about, but at some point you yourself have to realize that you have nothing in your head but neurosis. Cults attract neurotic people and neurotic people read Osho's fictional books. His books are Harry Potter for adults, people who want to escape the real world. Fantasy sells more than fact, and that is why Osho outsold U.G. Krishnamurti. Osho took nitrous oxide to get high, and to "increase his creativity." To tell the truth you do not need to be creative at all, you just have to state the facts. Osho needed creativity to lie, to create fiction to sell to the masses. The naive want to believe the myths, so anyone who tells the truth about their false God is considered an enemy. It is just like L. Ron Hubbard and the Scientology cult. Osho, like Hubbard, proved that people will believe anything. A man (Osho) who stated that he made love to his young female disciples because it would ensure their enlightenment in a future life cannot be trusted. There are no future lives, and there is no "enlightenment" in the sense Osho used the word. Rajneesh/Osho's police record is fact, his "wisdom" is 100% myth.

          Christopher Calder



          Reply
            Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:response to Mr. calder
            Date: Aug 13, 2007, 5:43
            Wow. I did not mean o shake you up like this. We are just chit chatting... an intelectual play. But your passion shows that i touched some soft spot. Also, so much mentioning of my degree seems to reflect some inferiority. It is just a degree,. It does not mean I am higher than you. I am just disagreeing with your arguments. And your anger plays against this game of us. The fact that i do not agree with you does not mean that i am crazy, or the fact I have a different second hand information than you, does not make me a dishonest and neurotic human being. This is just sheer agression on your part. And again, i am not osho´s diciple so please do not reffer to me in those terms. I have nothing against anyone being a disciple, but it is just not may case. I will discuss your arguments in a minute, but first i want to clarify that i do not agree with your statement of Osho´s movement being a cult. Some of the prerequisites to have a cult is to have sistemathic body or set of beliefs. As you know, and have consistently argued, Rajneesh contradicted himself a lot. It is 'practically imposible to create a cult out of his words. the only consistent idea is that of meditation. The rest is simple not sistemathic. Second, you need rituals that people can join to. And nowadays there is nothing like that. Even the celebraton of his death and birthday, and his pictures, or the sannyas giving have been removed as official celebrations in the osho resort. Just go there and see if you see any blid cult. Third, a cult does not admit disent and you and I are writing in a sannyas owned website and the quotes you take from parmarrtha are also discussions in sannyas websites. Fourth, you need someone to believe in and rajnneesh himself advised his disciples not to believe in him unless it was their direct experience.
            Ok , your points. Osho´s teeth fell off during his last year in Poona. Not all of them, of course, but quite some quantity. The spetialist consulted by devageet said that he had only seen such deterioration ina jaw bone in cases of radio exposure. devageet did not take his teeth off... the fell. And this is not speculation.
            Osho said that devageet used N02 gas during dental sessions as you can see in "notes of a mad man". I doi not recall any other instance where he " talked openkly" about it. And the discussion is not wether this gas was used as anasthetic, but rather wether it was used recreationally by the man. Which again, his closest people involved denied.
            If you please can supply the records of the FBI of the mexico smugglinb and the huge amount of gas, or at least give me the address of the page where you got this information. because in all my years of research I have never come accross this.

            In relation to the paragraph where you tell me to grow up I do not see this master as a super human or godlike entity. In fact i think we could discuss points where i do not agree with him. So, your remark is not for me or what I have said.

            I do not doubt that the early disciples you mention knew you in the times of woodlands. I can not ask laxmi... she is dead, mukta is quite old.. and chinmaya I have not seen him for a while. What i say is that the events that we have been discussing ocuur in a time that you were not even hundred meters near the guy. i know that you liked him as the archarya and got desilutioned of bhagwan and Osho, But what i say is that you got second hand information that according to my first hand sources is incorrect.
            what you say he said or did to his famale disciples comes from satya bharti´s last book unless you hold the camera when he was having sex or touching some girl and making the statement you quote, back in woodlands. I do not think he was celibate, but so far i have not get one sigle girl to admit to have had sex with the man... if you have a name would be great.
            regarding police records... Rajneesh was facing the Reagan administration which was as fascist as the present Bush, which you fight: S,o I am sure that you can understand that not all this is trust worthy. However, as far as police records is concerned, he was just accused of imigration fraud, sham marriges and stuff anf of lying on the turist visa application, in the sense that he said he did not intend to stay in the states and later he tryed to. Those are the "terrible" crimes he was sentenced in the plea bargin.
            Finally, all the crimes, the salmonella poisoning, the intent of murder of devaraj, and of the attorney general, the bugging of the commune, including rajneesh´s room commited by sheela and friends were exposed by rajneesh and it was him who invited the FBI to investigate these crimes that ultematley lead to the capture of sheela and friends in germany. If he had kept silent noone would have ever guessed or known about them. Remember that the salmonella poisoning in the dalles was attributed to " unproper food handling" by the authorities. So rajneesh´s criminal records are just imigration frauds... the rest it is sheela´s and he was the one to denouce it. Finally, in your article you said osho lied about not knowing about the wire tappings. I do not think he sent his room to be bugged. Also he did not denouce sheel when he suspected she was stealing, but when she left and ppeople started comming up with the stories of her crimes.
            One last question. If rajneesh was such a horrible caracter, why did you keep on seeing him over and over the time?...did you like the dynamic meditation... and your own version of it?
            best Regards. I wait for your reply
            Anthony... No ph. d. to upset you

            Reply
              Christopher Calder: RE:response to Mr. calder
              WWW: home.att.net/~meditation/wrong-way.html
              Email: calderhome@yahoo.com
              Date: Aug 18, 2007, 19:31
              Anthony,

              Boy, you are a devious character, trying to slip through the cracks of logic and proven fact again and again. All of Rajneesh's drug use was exposed by the FBI, local Oregon law enforcement, and published in newspapers around the country. People clearly saw the nitrous oxide spigots installed by his bedside. When you get to the point that you have nitrous oxide spigots custom installed by your bed, you are a very serious nitrous oxide addict, not just a casual user.

              Devageet stated that he gave Rajneesh nitrous oxide "treatments" for months. Nitrous oxide is not a "treatment". It cures no disease! Its only legitimate use is as an anesthetic. Are you saying that Rajneesh had dental surgery for months? That makes you a crazy person! Are you saying that Rajneesh dictated books while having dental surgery? That makes you a crazy person! Try going to a local dentist where you live and ask him to give you "nitrous oxide treatments" to increase your creativity, and so you can dictate books to your secretary while under the influence. You are a crazy, dishonest person who speaks out of every corner of your mouth. You make insane, illogical, dishonest statements and yet you expect to be taken seriously.

              In e-mail correspondents to me, Devageet admitted that Rajneesh also took large amounts of Valium, but insanely stated that Rajneesh was "not addicted," but that "his body needed it." That is the definition of addiction! Talking out of both sides of your mouth is a common trait of Rajneesh disciples, and trying to wiggle around proven facts to continue your worship of a fraud is insane activity. The Osho cult has degenerated into a cult of liars and the mentally ill. It was not always like that, but the more sane people are long gone and want nothing to do with this cult.

              Rajneesh invited me to live at his apartment in Bombay, and I lived in the room right across the hall from him. Rajneesh had tremendous power, and he used special effort and energy transmissions on disciples he favored. I know what he was capable of, and I know he had a special gift given him by nature and an accident of birth. The problem is, all the rest of it, all the supernatural stuff was made up and borrowed from books and tradition. He talked about souls, talking to ghosts, and remembering past lives, and it was all just a gimmick to get more disciples. The more disciples you get, the more money and power you get. I am not saying Rajneesh was a complete fraud in the sense that he had nothing to offer. I just draw a clear line between what was good about him and where he went wrong, so that others in the future will not make the same tragic mistakes.

              You seem to revel in making the same mistakes over and over, and that is insane behavior. All your screws are not tight! Accepting reality, warts and all, is a part of growing up and becoming an adult. Osho people don't want to do that. They want to be children forever, and that is what they are. Being an adult has its own rewards, and Osho people will never know the satisfaction of surrendering to the facts and trying to make the best of life as it is, without the childish fantasy. That brings a more sober kind of meditation, but it really does feel better than nurturing dishonesty and delusion.

              Christopher Calder


              Reply
                Anthony Thompson: RE:response to Mr. calder
                Date: Aug 20, 2007, 0:17
                Dear Mr. Calder. i do not think I have been insulted so much in a single letter since High school. Again, I would love that you give me access to your FBI reports, because all I have are guessing statements made by FBI agents printed in "the Oregonian". Perhaps you have a better source, because, so far it is just opinions. There´s no such a thing as "nitrous oxide spigots customed made". What there is are spigots... if we trust the report.... what are those for?... guessing, sir guessing. This guess comes from and IRS agent that met Hugh Milne in London in mid 80 s..
                Of course I can not say anything in relation to what devageet told you privately... no way to verify it for me... so I will not comment on that. I can only know what devageet has said on the subject. Which is different from what you say. I am still waiting for your FBI report on the smugling from mexico and the purchase of N02.
                You say "You are a crazy, dishonest person who speaks out of every corner of your mouth. You make insane, illogical, dishonest statements and yet you expect to be taken seriously". Again this is just sheer insult and agression. When you run out of arguments you treat me like this.
                I do not know why are you so upset. because I do not agree with you? because I have different information than you? Who is the insane person here? who reacts childishly?
                You did not answer my question on what were you doing seeing rajneesh over and over the years.
                I am very sorry that you want to put me in a box of an Idea you have about me being whatever suits you idea of some " blind follower". I have found rajneesh´s diciples to be open, free, honest, educated, intelligent...fanatic, uneducated, unintelligent, careless people... as every body. As anywhere when you have a group of people... they are who they are. Ii do not think there is a brand here. All I see is your resentment with different facts and then putting me down in descreditting what I say. Sir, let us have an informed discussion...newpaper´s clips are not proofs... please!
                Regards
                Anthony Thompson... still a bit insecure to add the Ph. D.
                Do not insult me ...argue!



                Reply
                  Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:response to Mr. calder ...adding something more
                  Date: Aug 20, 2007, 17:12
                  Dear. Mr Calder. I would also like to add some more arguments to my last reply.
                  To my reply that the N02 was used in dental sessions only, you replyed �No one dictates books while having dental surgery, and no dental surgery lasts for months.� First, the books were dicteted in �the context� of dental sessions. It does not mean that he was speaking with the drill in his mouth...which is quite difficult indeed. We do not know how long the team of Devaraj, Devageet and their assitance Ashu and nityuamo stayed together listening to Osho. Second, two of the so called Books �Notes of a mad man� and � books I have loved� are actually small panflets. Consisting of 13 sessions the first and 16 sessions the second. Both are samall books, althou they have been printed to look like glossy hardbounds in recent editions, the original ones were paperbacks with colourful pictures in them with a size not exeeding a pocked book. If you read outloud what is said in each session it would not take you more than 8 minutes and in some cases no more than 2. The other book � Glimpses of a golden childhood� is actually a thik lenghthy book that was spoken at the beginning of Osho´s residence in Rajneeshpuram , Oregon. Althou it is considerable bigger than the other two books. If you read any cahpter outloud it will not take you more than 15 minutes. Those are the lengths he spoke for each session. After or before any dental work.
                  Second. You say Rajneesh said he spoke with ghosts, reincarnation and soul. All these ideas have been contradicted by himself in some way or another during the years. He said that ghost were fictions ( From bondage to feedom, 1985), that there is no soul or reicarnation ( reincarbnation a misconception, 1988) and that "enlightenment is just to realize that there is nothing to achieve". (Hammer on the rock, 1976) he never said he was infallible, in fact he repeatedly said the contrary.(Interviews with the press, 1985)
                  a final quote for you:
                  said � You need not agree whith what I say; you can only agree with me directly. There is no need to como through what I say. I say a thousand and one things and I contradict myself everyday. If you start agreeing with me you will go mad! You can´t agree; nobody can´t agree with a fwhat I say . You can anly agree witha few points but those wil not be all that i say. Contradiction is my method. I go on shattering. I go on shocking, offending people; that is may method, to shatter people´s beliefs� (Osho, 1980, The Open Secret).
                  regards. wainting for your reply, not agression please.
                  Anthony Thompson Ph. D

                  Reply
phil: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: phil@yahoo
Date: Aug 13, 2007, 15:21
hi chris,
first you claim that devageet `admitted that osho took illegal drugs`.by way of `evidence`for your `case`
that is clearly a lie.
all these drugs mentioned are legal.
then you say `devageet is a crazy man.`
so why were you using a crazyman`s words as evidence?
who is crazy,then?

i tell you what,chris.
there is a guy in your bathroom,on the other side of the mirror.
ask him something for me...
why is he lying?

Reply
An Osho Fan: Christopher Calder and his article.
Email: indrajit.iit@gmail.com
Date: Aug 25, 2007, 18:01
God!

After reading the debate between tons of people on one side and CC(with his crackpot and one-pointed remarks ( "Osho was a cheat and is frauding you..")) and CS on the other I don't know where to start.

However, I'll try to go point by point about what I have to say.

1) Mr. Calder, I am a big fan of Osho. i.e. I admire greatly what he has to say on different issues and aspects of human life and society. I have been first introduced to Osho ( in this life..I have some post-this-life memories of Osho..which is besides our topic of discussion here) through a book called "new man for the new millenium" ( Penguin books) which I purchased from a book shop at Bangalore, India in 2003 and was greatly impressed by what it had to say because I agreed totally with what Osho has to say in that book about many things. Since then I have read ( here and there, mostly on the net) whatever I could lay my hands upon by Osho and eventually came to admire him a great deal..even to the point of saying I am his follower ( meaning I follow in the direction he points to).

But I have never communicated with a single Osho follower till date ( other than accidentally discovering that a nearby shopkeeper is another big fan of Osho) and have never visited the Poona Center ( neither do I intend to, because of the exorbitant rates that they charge which is not affordable by most middle class Indians). So I would like to know if you ( Mr. Calder) thinks of me a being a part of the Osho "cult" which he and many others like him says as something in existance.

In my understanding, for the existance of a "cult" there are lot of prerequisites, which Mr. Anthony Thompson has successfully pointed out and none of which in my knowledge exists vis-a-vis Osho.

So I hereby demand that either Mr. Calder responds to Mr. Thompson's points about "cult" or he IMMIDIATELY stops saying that the Osho followers/admirers belong to any "cult" or there is any such thing as a cult around Osho.

2. I fully agree with John in his conclusion that Mr. Calder is launching a well planned attack on Osho to make sure that the newcomers are, in a very neatly planned way, turned away from Osho and made to think he(Osho) was a liar of trememdous proportions who'se only aim was to increase his empire and the no's of RRs in his collection.

3. I second Mr. Thompson's claim of proof that Osho ever had sex with ANY of his sannyasins ( or anyone at all for that matter), because the moment I (or anybody for that matter) hear that someone who says his aim is "to take a man to a no-mind state WITHOUT using sexual means", regularly had sex in his own private life, it means to me that the man has not reached in himself what he is preaching and is a fraud, and therefore I loose all respect for him.

So, if Mr. Calder is saying something about Osho that can cause loss of repect for Osho in anyone's mind he must support it with valid proof or let it be established that he has written it only to satisfy his own personal vendatta against Osho and his personal aim of sladering Osho's character baselessly.

[Only good proof can serve as a valid base of what you have said in your article about Osho having sex with hundreds of young women, and without it ( good proof) you will be proven to be a lier of CRIMINAL proportions.]

[I notice that you have not responded to Mr. Thompson's section on this..but I am DOUBLY reminding you to remember this part when ( if at all) you respond to my post]

4. In your article you have claimed that Osho died of AIDS. Other than the fact that (in my knwoledge) Osho did not display any visible signs of being an AIDS patient in his last days, I heard that his body was burnt very soon after his death. So where did you get this information that it was indeed AIDS that has killed Osho, and if it is a mere guess or your personal suspicion then why did you not say so in your article instead of saying at point blank that he died of AIDS.

Without any proof of it, you would once again have done something CRIMINALLY wrong (and I would dearly wish, that any of Osho's foundations in existance today (or someone with enough money and will), sues you in a court of law for willful and mendacious slandering of Osho's character).

5. You keep claiming that Osho was frauding people by saying whatever he has and harming them in some way. If Osho has ever said anything and wanted people to follow it, it was to meditate. I don't know how, if someone is telling me to meditate, and asking nothing in return ( Osho.com publishes his meditations for free on the web), can cheat anything from me, or harm me in any way. [ if someone finds a perticular meditation suggested by Osho harmful to his/her mental/physical health, then he/she can simply stop doing it, isn't it so?].

So I demand you either explain how Osho was cheating people or IMMIDIATELY stop saying such things.

6. If someone is under the worst ( most effective) drug and still continuously says things that make sense and acts normally, it would mean to me, ( via my common sense) that the drug, in that case is acting as a positive factor to his/her health (by keeping the person's medical conditions stable due to whatever reasons) and not a negative factor.

So as long as what Osho says makes sense to me, it does not matter to me if he wrote it under the effect of LSD or potassium cyanide...leave allong NO2 and Valium.

7. I also notice that you have not responded to most of the points where Mr. Anthony Thompson has logically refuted you claims. You have instead held on to the slightest weakness that you found in his posts and called him things for them instead of responding to the point by point challenges posed to you by him.

Either you respond to those points ( if you want, I will at some other time, sit and create another post where I will cut and paste those from Mr. Thompson's post) or else it will be evident that there is no "truth" ( the very thing that you seem to be pursuing) behind what you say, and instead, ou are out on your personal aim of slandering Osho's character as a master(for whatever personal reasons that you have).

8. As a BTW, I notice you keep repeating the word "teaching" on several occasion w.r.t. Osho whereas Osho has repeatedly said that he does not teach anything. His saying things to us is a process of taking us to own inner silence, and that fact has been pointed out to you in many of the posts by various people. Inspite of it, you keep using the word Osho's "teachings".

It can only mean two things. you a) are absolutely inane, or b) are on a planned anti-Osho propaganda.

Another closing request. Please do point out what, amongst all that I have said, is "ridiculous, and does not make any sense to anyone not wearing a straight jacket". Because for all that matters, I consider myself to be one of the "Osho people".

Regards

Indrajit Paul

Reply
An Osho Fan: RE: Christopher Calder and his article
Email: indrajit.iit@gmail.com
Date: Aug 25, 2007, 18:36
I apologise sincerely to the readers of the above article for the innumerable typos, spelling, punctuation and grammatical mistakes in it and I partly owe it to the lack of a "preview" scheme in this site.

Regards
Indraji t

Reply
    Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE: Christopher Calder and his article
    Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
    Date: Aug 26, 2007, 19:12
    Well, given the fact that i have not got any reply from mr calder, I invite those of you who might be interested to review the article I wrote around this discussion at:
    http://www.dynamicbr ain.net/christopher-calde r-krishna-christ-and-his- lying-or-misinformed-lost -truth
    any misspellings need to be forgiven... english is a second languege for me.
    Anthony

    Reply
sahyo: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Aug 28, 2007, 18:40
osho didn't fear which people might think about him:

http://www.youtub e.com/watch?v=otGQqO2TYMI &mode=related&sea rch=#

Reply
sahyo: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Aug 28, 2007, 19:01
you can think-imagine which maybe comforts your fear, chris, but there will always be humans which hear this truth, which osho pointed through the use of words and pauses, this which is beyond the definitions humans use words for in an attempt to define this which cannot be defiined

you apparently weren't-aren't listening


Reply
sahyo: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Aug 28, 2007, 19:22
chris, are you're using the attention you get from people which agree , and the attention and debating with people, which disagree, in a attempt to to avoid feeling as if alone?

Reply
sahyo: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Aug 28, 2007, 19:23
oop

*and the attention and debating with people which disagree

Reply
    Christopher Calder: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    WWW: home.att.net/~meditation
    Email: calderhome@yahoo.com
    Date: Sep 2, 2007, 4:01
    Dear Osho crazies,

    There are so many false statements and ridiculous assumptions in all of your posts that I do not know where to begin. At the ranch in Oregon (Rajneeshpuram), the then "Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh" bragged to the press, saying that "I have had sex with hundreds of women," and that only his poor health kept him from having even more sex. That was printed in newspapers all over the world, so it was hardly a secret. In Bombay, Rajneesh had sex with Ma Yoga Seema (Greek Mukta's 18 year old daughter), with Ma Yoga Prem (his first Western sannyasin who was in her 30s), with the young American girl who he got pregnant (I forget her name), and who complained to the US embassy after having an abortion. He had sex with a very old and wealthy Indian lady from Bombay, presumably just to try to get her to dominate money. That was just at the Woodlands building when he was just starting to get over his Indian hangups about sex. He asked Kabir (an Indian) and Mukta (Greek) to have sex right in front of him so that he could watch, and they both refused. He grabbed the breasts of two of my lady friends, Ma Krishna (teenage blond Brazilian-American girl), and Ma Satya Priya (brunette teenage California girl), and undressed and "felt the chakras" of a third young American lady friend of mine (I have forget her name). I know this directly from the people involved, not from Shivamurti or his book.

    At Poona and at the Oregon ranch, Rajneesh expanded his sexual activity, and I have received e-mail letters from dozens of women who he had sex with. It is ridiculous for me to waste my time debating known and proven facts, which he himself has admitted publicly and is now part of the historical record. The sex in itself is not wrong. What is wrong is all the spiritual BS he used to explain it. Hugh Hefner has had sex with hundreds of women as well, but Hefner never made any claim of being an incarnation of some great guru, or that he was doing it for any other reason than his own personal pleasure. It is also neither noble, wise, or good to have sex with your own students. That is an abuse of the student-teacher relationship. I like Hugh Hefner, and he is a far more honest and less egoistic man than Rajneesh was.

    The only "illegal" drug Rajneesh took was LSD, which he himself admitted to. He did experiments with marijuana laced drinks at Woodlands building before I arrived on the scene, according to Swami Yoga Chinmaya, who has no motive to lie, and who is a very reliable witness. Rajneesh gave marijuana laced drinks (bhang lathis) to a group of his students without their knowledge to see their reaction. I don't object to the experiment itself, I object to the fact that he did not tell those he experimented on before hand and ask their permission. Another guru I use to known, named Dr. Ramamurti Mishra, conducted a similar experiment at Amanda Ashram in Monroe, New York, during the 1970s. Dr. Mishra gave all of his students small doses of LSD mixed into orange juice before meditation, also without their knowledge and permission. I guess neither Rajneesh's or Mishra's experiments had positive results, as they both stopped the practice. Both men were quacks and fools when it came to the quality of their judgment as gurus, yet but both men had tremendous presence. Neither was honest. Dr. Mishra had his own hypocritical sexual escapades as well, as did all of the gurus I knew except for Swami Chidananda (as far as I know).

    Rajneesh told both me and Swami Yoga Chinmaya (Indian Chinmaya) directly that he had sex with his female disciples because it would ensure their enlightenment in a future lifetime. Ask Swami Yoga Chinmaya about this. He told Chinmaya first, then he told me in a face to face meeting when I asked him about it. Rajneesh was a mortal man made of DNA, just like you and me. He had delusions of grandeur, and delusions about past lives, but his stories of the occult never added up. He made fantastic claims about being a Dalai Lama in a previous life, and being able to see all of the past lives of his disciples. He claimed that he figured his last life was 700 years ago because most of his disciples have had 7 incarnations since his last death. He liked telling these fantastic stories about the occult, but the problem is, the occult does not exist. He was making it all up, and getting it from other people's books. He got allot of mileage out of a cheap paperback book I gave him entitled "Psychic Discoveries Behind the Iron Curtain." It was all hogwash, but he took it as his own to formulate his teaching. He got his "occult" information about the secret life of Jesus from an Indian newspaper article written by a quack archeologist. Rajneesh was a salesman, not a truth teller. The occult sells and is money in the bank for phony gurus.

    Anthony has very poor reading comprehension skills, and he has great difficulty in separating facts from his own fantasies. I can see that from his writing. He keeps misinterpreting and misquoting my words. For example, I never said or implied in any of my writings that Rajneesh died from nitrous oxide and Valium use. I clearly wrote that the stated cause of death by the ashram was heart failure, but there was much speculation that he committed suicide. I do not which is the case. I also said that Rajneesh had custom installed nitrous oxide spigots by his bed at the ranch, I never said the spigots themselves were custom made. Former Oregon Congressman Jim Weaver saw these custom installed spigots first hand, as did the Oregon police and the FBI. Weavers article can be seen at: http://home.att.net/~medi tation/Weaver.html

    Ant hony dismisses anyone who criticizes Rajneesh, and acts as if their words and witness have no value. Anthony will only believe what he wants to believe, not matter what I or anyone else says, and no matter what level of proof supplied. Anthony cannot read, comprehend, or make logical conclusions about almost anything. There is no winning a debate with crazy people, because they can always pull another untrue, irrelevant, and/or ridiculous argument out of their hats.

    The big problem with the Osho cult today is that it is mainly only the crazy people who are left behind. The more normal and sane people got out of the cult when it engaged in germ warfare, illegal spying, drug use, financial fraud, etc. Rajneesh allowed Ma Anand Sheela to spy on his disciples. He gave her permission to do so because he wanted total control over his commune. He even demanded that his disciples ask his permission to leave (or escape) the ranch. Obviously, Rajneesh did not want Sheela to spy on himself, just on his disciples. Rajneesh's spying scheme backfired, like almost everything else he did. Lying, hypocritical, and corrupt behavior almost always backfires because eventually the lie and fraud are caught and exposed. Then your bad behavior makes you look like a fool and a crook, and people of sound mind will avoid you. Rajneesh was addicted to lying, and he loved lying. He was literally a pathological liar in the medical-psychiatric sense of that word. He had no respect for truth at all.

    Most of the people left behind in the Osho cult are the very people Rajneesh himself would have hated. The only person he really loved was himself. His disciple mistook his great, energetic presence for "love." His presence was a gift of birth, his brain, his DNA. It was a physical gift, not a spiritual gift earned by the practice of meditation over lifetimes of effort. He won the DNA consciousness lottery, that is all. He was born that way, and he only had to wait for his central nervous system to fully develop to become "enlightened." But consciousness is not intelligence, not wisdom, not truthfulness, not "love." That is why people have a hard time understanding Rajneesh's life and misbehavior. They incorrectly assume that he must know something because he had so much electricity in his presence. That was a mistake of logic that I myself made for years, and that others continue to make. The organic, DNA based theory of consciousness is correct. The spiritual, supernatural theory of consciousness is false.

    Rajneesh misunderstood himself and life. He thought the world was divided into two parts, the material and the spiritual. The "spiritual" only exists in the imagination of the human brain, which is material and organic. There is no spiritual world outside of our own imagination. That is the BIG POINT I am making about all these mystical gurus, not just Rajneesh/Osho. Rajneesh was like so many other hundreds of phony gurus selling myths and lies in order to clean the pockets of their disciples. Those who sell the "spiritual" are either intentionally lying, or self-deluded. That is just as true for Indian mystics as it is for Pat Robertson and other Christian and Moslem gurus as well. Religion is a fraud, and all the great religions of the world are full of misinformation. All contain fragments of truth, and many contain elements of common sense, such as "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you," but their cosmology and assumptions of the supernatural are incorrect.

    Christopher Calder


    Reply
      Christopher Calder: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      WWW: home.att.net/~meditation
      Email: calderhome@yahoo.com
      Date: Sep 2, 2007, 7:24
      On Anthony's web page on Osho and me, Anthony dismisses my claim that I knew Osho was on drugs just by looking at him at the ranch. I state now that I was perhaps 20 feet away from Rajneesh at the ranch, and I could tell he was on drugs. Anthony states "But, again, perhaps I (Anthony) am just not so perceptive." Exactly Anthony! That is about the only honest and reasonable thing you have said on this issue. I knew Rajneesh was on drugs even before then. I went to a party in Woodstock, New York, at the time Rajneesh was in the process of moving from Poona to New Jersey, USA. At the party a tape was played of one of the last, or perhaps even THE last discourse Rajneesh gave before going into semi-silence. Rajneesh never stopped talking completely; he only stopped giving public discourses for a time. The tape was a nightmare! Rajneesh was rambling and disorganized, and his speaking and thinking abilities were clearly impaired. I told my two friends at that party, Moonie and Svargo, that "It sounds like he is on Valium." He was not making any sense at all. Seeing him red faced, and "drunk as a skunk" and "shit-faced" (on drugs, not booze) at the Poona ranch just made Rajneesh's drug use even more clear. He was not just temporarily impaired for one or two lectures, as I had hoped. Rajneesh was a full fledged addict. I have seen videos of him broadcast on television in Seattle where he was slurring his speech, barely able to talk, and wearing sunglasses, and again, not making any sense. His disciples were crazy to broadcast such tapes of an obviously drugged man. As I have said before, Osho people are judgment impaired and lack clear reasoning abilities.

      An alert and awake person can see allot in people faces, and from their voice, and detect a great deal from their vibrations. When I saw Alan Watts give a lecture in San Francisco in 1973, I was sitting several hundred feet away from him, but I could tell from his vibrations alone that he was very ill and without energy. I turned to my friend and said, "I am surprised he is even alive. He has no energy at all." About two month later Alan Watts was dead. Make of that what you will.

      On his web page, Anthony tries to discredit Swami Shivamurti (Hugh Milne) by saying that he was not Rajneesh's personal body guard. He states that "Milne was not Osho´s personal Bodyguard. He was Laxmi´s. (Osho´s secretary at the time). Osho´s bodyguard was Sw. Vimalkirti. Milne was just guarding the Darshan sessions when Osho spoke to his disciples." This is another instance of Anthony talking out of both sides of his mouth. Anthony keeps making childish and insane arguments that do not make a bit of sense. Being Rajneesh's guard at his most vulnerable time of day, during darshan when he met the public, makes Milne his personal guard. Shivamurti was responsible for all of the guards, and he devised the security plan that protected Rajneesh day and night. No one person could be on call to guard Rajneesh 24 hours a day. Milne was the head guard. Even I guarded Rajneesh's bungalow gate in Poona several nights, but that did not make me Rajneesh's top guard. Milne was that person and everyone knew it.

      Anthony cannot think clearly. He has the same foggy minded, dishonest, and devious mind-set that all Osho people have. You have to be dishonest to be a part of the Osho cult. If you were not honest and foggy headed, you would not want anything to do with the cult.

      Anthony and the others need to grow up. There is no such thing as "Tantra" in the sense that Rajneesh used the term. Rajneesh used the idea of Tantra to rationalize dishonest and selfish behavior. He left behind thousands of dazed and confused disciples who now cannot think themselves out of a paper bag. Rajneesh seemed to make reason, logic, honesty, and trustworthiness a villain. Those thing are good and useful and essential for civilized life. Reason is not the enemy of meditation. You can be both a reasonable and honest person and also know how to turn off the measuring and reasoning part of the brain TEMPORARILY at will in order to enjoy the silence of the Void in all its fullness. "Tantra", as Rajneesh used the term, is just a gimmick to make money and to rationalize criminal activity. Rajneesh was directly responsible for massive criminal financial fraud. Sheela was responsible for germ warfare, drugging, and much more. Both were responsible for illegal wiretapping. Rajneesh never apologized to his fraud victims, or to Sheela's germ warfare victims. For Rajneesh, "Tantra" and "love" meant never having to say you are sorry (as in "Love Story"- a joke).

      Christopher Calder


      Reply
        sahyo: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
        Date: Sep 2, 2007, 7:53
        """you can think-imagine which maybe comforts your fear, chris, but there will always be humans which hear this truth, which osho pointed through the use of words and pauses, this which is beyond the definitions humans use words for in an attempt to define this which cannot be defiined

        you apparently weren't-aren't listening""&quo t;



        Reply
        Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: answering Christopher calder
        Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
        Date: Sep 2, 2007, 16:49
        Dear Mr. Calder. Can I call you dear? By this time and energy we should be dear ones. Thank you for answering my points.
        So here we go again. Rajneesh was not celibate, he did not believe in celibacy, neither he preached it, nor he saw any value in what he called � unnatural behaviour� ( Osho 1985, interviews with the press). In fact he was known by the yellow press as� the sex guru� precisely for not advocating the renunciation of sex and inviting his disciples to explore and play with it. So the fact that he had an active sex life is not a problem. He had sex with consenting adults self-responsible for their behaviour... so I do not see a problem in him having sex with the people around him. He was not sexually active at the ranch. Mainly because of diabetes. And he said so.

        Regarding the drug issue, As I am not an eyewittnes such accounts, I can not comment on them, but I can not veryfy them either.

        Regarding Sheel??s crimes, here my friend I have first hand accounts that what you are saying is not true. Rajneesh had no idea of sheela´s schemes. He definately did not want her to spy on his disciples. This was sheela´s attemt to have total control. You can ask english savita about it and chilean Aseema, Sheela´s maid in jesus grove. The purpose was to see who was not trusting her and speaking negatively about her behind her back. And specially who might go to osho with the stories of what she was doing. Like expelling � little siddhartha� from the ranch. Something Osho never knew about and in fact sent him a letter to come back when he found out about it. Osho had nothing to do with this.So this is just a big misinformation or plain lying on your part.

        Whatever you say regarding Osho´s DNA, is just imagination on your part... or did you turn into a genetist, all of a sudden, and also with exclusive access to osho´s DNA!!
        Besides that is not my point of discussion.

        Sir, Tantra is not a myth. It was a sub-school of buddism that florished around 1000 A. C. It dwels out of the advaita and non dualistic buddhist tradition. Its early´s writings inclide Tilopa, Saraha, abhinava and his Tantra-aloka, and the Tantra-sara, and Para-Trimshika-Vivarana etc. In this non dualistic tradition, as opposed to yoga´s ascetism, the body pleasures can be considered as doors to the divine, or higher consciousness if you wish. Rajneesh Brought this approach back to life in his vision and work.

        Finally, one of osho´s main ideas was that there was no division between spirit and matter, between sacred and profane. His non dualistic view, quite tantric indeed, of a human being was Zorba the buddha. To point out that he believed in the division of spirit and matter is so stupid as to say that he believed in discipline and self- sacrifice.

        Now the piece on me. What ever you argue related to Rajneesh �looking like drugged� is your supposition, not a fact, your idea, your imagination. I have seen and heard the same discuorses you mention. �TheGoose is out� is the name of the first lectures you mention, and to me he sounds not only not drugged, but incredibly sharp, witty and profound. In fact they are among my favorits. I have the videos of his las words before going into public silence( he never said he was in complete silence, only public). And the only person who might have ben on drugs were the ones who were listening to the tape. What to say about � Seeing him red faced, and "drunk as a skunk" and "shit-faced". Fropm where did you get this? Please watch the videos!!

        Regarding your sensitivity to see people... just your imagination mr. Calder, just that.
        In Poona II he used sunglasses, not because he was stoned. But becasue of his right eye being damaged by the �whatever� poinson was affecting his health since the deportation from US. I was there back in 88 when you said to have seen him last. And I do not remember the story of his being Angry at the sannyasisn for not demostrating in the streets in his favour and so retreating into silence. The guy was sick, as I remember, very sick. So much so that he could not come to talk for a while and when he resumed he came back with the sun glasses for the lights of the auditorioum. These are sheer lies you tell.
        Shivamurti (hugh Milne) was the boyfriend of Zulma velie (Divya) in the early days, and I am sorry, he was laxmi ´s Bodygard. In fact he came to be so after she was attacked by an Indian. He was the head of the Samurais, the ashram gards, only for two years, then Yoga Meeta was the head guard.

        One last point, please read what I say about your �cult� theory. And answer to me what the hell were you doing all that time hanging around Osho´s world? If he was such a infamous character.?
        Wainting for your reply.
        Best Regards
        Anthony Thompson PH. D.



        Reply
          Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:answering Christopher calder
          Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
          Date: Sep 2, 2007, 16:51

          Plese read full article answering Calder claims:
          http://www.dynam icbrain.net/christopher-c alder-krishna-christ-and- his-lying-or-misinformed- lost-truth

          Reply
            Eunice Wellington: RE:answering Christopher calder
            Date: Sep 2, 2007, 20:34
            This is very interesting.... to read all this. I knew Sw. Krishna Christ, now Chris Calder, in Bombay. My name then was Ma Dhyana Siddhi...and before that, Ma atmananda. I am sure Krishna Christ remembers me. I was also In Woodland Appartments and Also doing Dynamic at the beach in Bombay...forgot the name of the beach.
            The thing is, I never heard the stories that you are telling. I knew Chinmayaji, or Sw. Yoga Chinmaya, Mukta, her doughter..who then was 19, turning 20, not 18 years old. Why was I left out of all this? All these fantastic stories. Bhagwan never tryed to touch me or have sex with me. Why? I feel jealous now! I would have loved to sleep with such a being.
            I think the stories are Krishna Christ wet dreams. Or I was the only one back there who did not know anything.
            Love... and please Krishna Christ... let go!
            Eunice Wellington


            Reply
              Christopher Calder: RE:answering Christopher calder
              WWW: home.att.net/~meditation
              Email: calderhome@yahoo.com
              Date: Sep 2, 2007, 22:06
              Eunice,

              Ask Seema herself. She told me directly all about it during a bus ride to Mount Abu for a meditation camp. Rajneesh did not hit on all the women there. He never touched Mukta either. You must have heard about Prem, because Prem would tell anyone who would listen. Ask Chinmaya. Are you saying that you never met or heard about the young American girl he got pregnant? She was one of the first people I met at Woodlands, along with her boyfriend. You must have really been out of the loop to not know any of this. Can you imagine how hurt she was to have this guru get her pregnant and then deny he even touched her? It is easy to deny, but if you look into it you will find that it is all true. The point is not that he had sex. The point is that he said one thing and did just the opposite. At that time he claimed complete celibacy and that he only knew about sex from "past lives." Years later he admitted that there was no reincarnation at all.

              Rajneesh got away with all of his deceiving because of his great presence. People forgave and forgot allot from his behavior, but what about when you find out that almost everything he said was a lie. There are no past lives to remember. There are no future lives to look forward to. He was not "free" as he claimed, because free people do not need to take drugs to escape and to get high. When Rajneesh died, he died the same death that you and I will experience. The lights will go out and that is all there is to it. All his fairly tale stories about how he was fully conscious for 700 years in a bodiless state between his last death and his new birth were just fiction, designed to impress and to gain new disciples. Disciples are cash in the bank for gurus, because that is where the money and power comes from.

              I do not understand how Osho people can accept drug use, constant lying, illegal spying, germ warfare, hypocritical behavior, public rudeness and public stupidity, and say that it was all good. Rajneesh disgraced himself and he gave meditation a bad name. All of the bad things he did had nothing to do with meditation. They had to do with his own ego, his own desires, and his own loose screws. I am trying to draw a clear line between what was real, worthy, and productive, and what was destructive, dishonest, and just plain stupid. His constant lying was stupid, because in the end the lies will become known. Those who are left behind in the Rajneesh cult have something missing in their brains. They have no conscience, no ethics, no sense of responsibility. I am trying to bring those important issue into focus, and I am saying that they do matter. World history proves that they do matter.

              Christopher Calder



              Reply
                Eunice Wellington: RE:answering Christopher calder
                Date: Sep 3, 2007, 1:02
                Chris. Man, we hang out together! How can you say I was out of the loop. Do you remember Ma Ananda Prema from New York and Ma Yoga Bhakti also from NY. We used to hang out together with Shivamurti, Mukti her daughter and later came Teertha, satya Bharti, back in ´72.
                Chris, honestly, Are you making these things up?
                I am not a Rajneeshee anymore. I have nothing to protect, but this is going too far. Please my friend...do not pretend not to know me.
                Love
                Eunice

                Reply
                  Christopher Calder: RE:answering Christopher calder
                  WWW: home.att.net/~meditation
                  Email: calderhome@yahoo.com
                  Date: Sep 3, 2007, 2:07
                  Eunice,

                  When did I say I did not remember you? Please reread my post. You knew Prem, then you must have known she told everyone who would listen that she had sexual intercourse with Rajneesh at Woodlands Building. They could not shut her up about it. Please be honest please! Can you admit that? Or, is it a memory problem for you? Rajneesh denied it, and I did not believe it myself until Seema told me about her sexual encounter with Rajneesh on the bus to Mount Abu.

                  You were older, I estimate about 50 years old at the time. Is that correct? You had a son who bought a house in Hawaii, correct? That must make you about 86 years old now. Is that about right? You taught hatha yoga in New York City? Is that correct?

                  Ma Satya Priya (pretty gril from California) and Brazilian Ma Krishna did not associate with you, and you would not be a person they would talk to about such events. You must have heard about the girl Rajneesh got pregnant, however. I believe her boyfriend's name was "Mulla," or something close to that. If you were out of the loop and did not hear about these escapades, then that must be because you were of an older generation and you were not talking to the people involved as I did. Both Kabir and Mukta told me separately about Rajneesh asking them to have sex in front of him. If you can find Kabir, he will tell you that and much more. Mukta is not exactly honest about such things in public, and I doubt she would want to comment on it. She wants to cling to the old myths. She still thinks, I am fairly sure, that Rajneesh had sex with all those women for their own good. I can tell you this much. No man has ever gotten an erection with compassion alone!

                  Again, I am not complaining about the sex itself. As I said, I like Hugh Hefner and the Playboy Mansion crowd is OK by me. I am complaining about the lying. Rajneesh lied every day of his life to gain power. Lying is wrong when Hillary Clinton and George Bush do it, and it is even more wrong when your guru does it. Gurus are supposed to lead people to the truth, no matter how hard and cold that truth may be. If your guru lies to gain power over you, and to get you to contribute money to his cult, then you need a new guru. If Rajneesh had simply told the truth from the beginning, then he would probably have had 10% of the number of disciples he ended up with, and have far less money and less power, but he would not have ended his life in disgrace. The majority of the world thinks Osho was an insane con man, and he was in a sense. He will never be accepted by the masses as anything more than another phony guru, because as far as his verbal teaching and behavior goes, he WAS just another phony guru. Those who knew him know he had tremendous power of presence, but that power does not and did not mean what we all initially thought it meant. The past life explanations of enlightenment are wrong and false.

                  see: http://home.att.net/~medi tation/soul.html

                  We were all conned. I did not lose allot of money in the con, because I was too young to have any money to lose. I do feel sorry and ashamed for all those victims of his con that lost their homes and life savings giving money to a cult that was based on lies from the very beginning. Rajneesh's vibrations were wonderful, but his conduct and his teachings were terrible and destructive. That is my point, but Osho people keep missing it. They value the vibes, but they do not seem to value the truth at all.

                  Christopher Calder


                  Reply
                    : RE:answering Christopher calder
                    Date: Sep 3, 2007, 2:21
                    > Osho was an insane con man, and he was in a sense. He will never be accepted by the masses as anything more than another phony guru, because as far as his verbal teaching and behavior goes, he WAS just another phony guru. <

                    you WANTING TO BELIEVE that doesn't mean you're right, chris

                    Reply
                      Christopher Calder: RE:answering Christopher calder
                      WWW: home.att.net/~meditation
                      Email: calderhome@yahoo.com
                      Date: Sep 3, 2007, 3:29
                      "you WANTING TO BELIEVE that doesn't mean you're right, chris"
                      ------------ ------------------------- --------------
                      Boy, are you ever wrong! If it were up to me, all of this would never have happened! Rajneesh would still be alive and have a small following of people who valued the truth. If it were up to me, Rajneesh would have told the truth from day one. He would still have had disciples because of his powerful electric presence. A smaller, honest group would have been far better.

                      It took me years to figure things out and surrender to the facts. I never wanted to believe any of this. The truth was forced on be by undeniable fact. I also never wanted to stop believing in souls and reincarnation, but again the facts overwhelmed me. I tell people my belief in souls and Eastern mysticism crashed just like a poorly constructed auditorium might crash when covered with too much snow. It just happened suddenly, but everything made sense after the crash. I no longer have to scratch my head and wonder why things happened like they did. With the organic explanation of consciousness, it all makes perfect sense.

                      I cannot tolerate dishonesty in myself or in others. That is why I have never been part of the "meditation business." That is also why I have such disdain for those Osho disciples who have contempt for truth. When people say that Osho only used nitrous oxide for dental reasons, but admit he called in his dentist in the middle of the night for nitrous oxide "treatments," that kind of two faced schizophrenic dishonesty just creeps me out. I went to India to improve my meditation practice and find the truth, not to join a sleazy cult of bad liars. You cannot build a decent house on a bad foundation, and if the foundation of your house is dishonest and rotten, the house will crash and burn. That is what happened to Osho/Rajneesh. He had lied so much his entire life, it all finally caught up to him, and he ended up in jail, looking like a fool, and being disrespected by anyone in the world with a brain. He was an embarrassment, and his current disciples continue to be an embarrassment.

                      Most of the old Rajneesh disciples who write to me agree with my web page on him, and now accept the basic fact of his con. It is mainly the new people who have never met him, or just the extreme insane disciples who disagree. When the people who agree with you write like sensible adults, and the people who disagree with you write like 10 year old idiots, then you know you must be doing something a little bit right. That is the reality of the situation, and the hundreds of crazy letters I have gotten from the insane Osho crowd is frightened, from death threats to suggestions that we all practice "spiritual terrorism," and rob banks to finance a new Osho cult.

                      There is no defending Osho's actions and words with logic and reason, and what he did was not "Zen" or "Tantra", it was just dishonesty.

                      Christophe r Calder


                      Reply
                        sahyo: RE:answering Christopher calder
                        Date: Sep 3, 2007, 6:59
                        > When the people who agree with you write like sensible adults, and the people who disagree with you write like 10 year old idiots, <

                        look (watch) thinking (imagining) which labels, as if is proof, which are wanting to believe





                        Reply
                          Eunice Wellington: RE:answering Christopher calder
                          Date: Sep 3, 2007, 16:50
                          I am sorry but your stories Chris simply amout that... stories. Yes I am an old woman now and I was a Yoga teacher in the Shivananda Ashram in New York. What Rajneesh had was something I never saw in another human being.And boy I was around!
                          I am not worried about his having sex. He taught that. Do you remeber " From sex to superconsciousness" in Cross Maiden, bombay?
                          What I worry is that someone like you who was there can not recognize what he was.
                          I am not talking about beliefs. Actually he demolished those. Remember? He told us that it did not matter what he said, but that we moved to meditation, beyond the mind and its belifs. HE was saying not to pay attention to his words. HE was speaking against "the occult", against " phony gurus". Remember?
                          All he wanted was to take us on a journey of self-discovery through opening our hearts to "that which is". So, now you saying that he wanted money, power and inforce a belief system on us... come on! You know he never owned anything. All was givgen to him. Even his ashram was Mukta´s... you know all this.
                          He was the one who laughed at our "spiritual questions". he was the one who destroyed our beliefs in esoteric ideas. HE WAS THE ONE!
                          Chris... why are you so angry? Did you pick up some of what he said as philosophy and then felt cheated? Please Chris... you now better than that. He was an excuse for our growth...The gate, remember? And that is what he was for me and many others. And it worked... not because I am a gulllible old woman with a childish idea of the world, but because I took to be a disciple as what he suggested... a game to wake up.Where I am fully responsible for all my actions. I am inmensely greatful to him for me... yea for finding myself... this peace that comes with meditation, this bliss, this centerdness... all this was awaken by him. Those who clinged to his words would inevitably loose the way. They were not reliable... meditation was his message and life.
                          I do not want to challenge you and what you say. I just want a testimony of somone who was there with you and have a different greatful taste in the back of the mouth.
                          Love to you and hope you are doing well
                          Eunice

                          Reply
                            Christopher Calder: RE:answering Christopher calder
                            WWW: home.att.net/~meditation
                            Email: calderhome@yahoo.com
                            Date: Sep 3, 2007, 18:12
                            Eunice,

                            Some of the things you say are true, some are partially true, and some are completely false. Rajneesh promoted belief in the "occult" like crazy. The occult was his favorite topic, and it brought in big bucks and made him a famous and financially successful guru. Mafia leaders often put all of their assets in their wife's name, or in the name of a phony corporation in order to hide those assets from the police and the IRS. Rajneesh stored his wealth in his car collection, which was in the name of a phony corporation, and it was his way of storing up nuts for the winter. Rajneesh was far more money oriented than you can admit today, and he inherited many business skills from his father, who was a successful and shrewd businessman.

                            You seem to concede the fact that you were not close to the women Rajneesh had sex with in Bombay, except for Prem, and you remain silent on the issue of Perm's loud and relatively public statements that Rajneesh had sex with her. As I have stated, I do not oppose sex at all. I am not a Catholic. I oppose the cover-up and the hypocrisy. Rajneesh admitted to having sex with his own female disciples to me in a face to face meeting, where he repeated his claim previously given to Swami Yoga Chinmaya that he had sex with his female disciples in order to insure their enlightenment in a future lifetime. Again I say, go ask Swami Yoga Chinmaya, and say hello for me while your at it.

                            Rajneesh raked in over a hundred million dollars from his disciples, selling false beliefs in souls and reincarnation. Then, after taking LSD, Rajneesh briefly changed his tune and stated that there was no reincarnation at all. That declaration of truth came only AFTER obtaining huge amounts of money from people under false pretenses. It is like selling someone a house and then later, after the sale is complete, telling the person that the house is defective and will fall down at any minute. Even after the scandals at the Oregon commune, Rajneesh still was so attached to his Rolls Royce automobiles that he wanted to send a few of them back to Poona with him. He wanted to save at least some of his bank account, and he did so in the form of expensive jewel encrusted ladies' watches.

                            Rajneesh's teaching was awful, wrong, and destructive on so many levels, but it was his BEHAVIOR that was truly unforgivable. Rajneesh once said that the worst thing society has produced are tranquilizers that make the human mind dull. So what did he do? He became addicted to high doses of Valium, a powerful tranquilizer that makes any human being act like an idiot in high doses. Rajneesh's "Tantra" was not a "method", it was the product of his own loose screws and hypocrisy. Tantra was used as a device to rationalize selfish, arrogant, and destructive behavior. When Rajneesh was lounging in his heated indoor pool in Oregon, and enjoying the effects of various kinds of drugs, many of his own disciples were freezing in the cold outside doing hard labor for 12 hours a day. What kind of cosmic love and compassion did that represent?

                            Eunice, you were duped, as was I and so many others. Rajneesh developed the perfect egocentric guru philosophy. Isn't it convenient that the best thing anyone could do for their spiritual growth was to give him all your money, follow his orders without question, and let him sleep with your wife and/or daughter. That is very convenient for him, and he did it all the while claiming to be egoless. Rajneesh had a bigger ego than any of his own followers, yet he sold the false concept of egolessness as part of his business Everyone has an ego, and you would die if you did not have an ego. Telling people that ego is the only barrier to enlightenment is false, and it gives the guru the perfect tools to keep disciples in line and subservient to the great "egoless" master. It was all a con!

                            The proof of Rajneesh's "intelligence" is in the pudding. If half of what he said were true, then things would not have gone so horribly wrong. Anyone who saw his ridiculous performance on the ABC news show, NIGHTLINE, could see a phony guru who could not answer a single question honestly. I am not angry at anything Rajneesh did to me, I am angry at all of the things he did to himself. He lied to himself and turned false rationalizations into an art form. He flushed truth down the toilet, and used the myth of Tantra to rationalize a crime syndicate. He extorted millions form his disciples under false pretenses. Yes, he had great presence of being, but the mistake you make is in thinking that changes anything. COSMIC CONSCIOUSNESS CHANGES NOTHING! Those who posses it must behave honestly, just like anyone else, or they are criminals. Superconsciousness must never be used as an excuse for crime, and it does not absolve anyone from the deleterious effects of drug addiction and self-deception.

                            Rajnee sh went back to his old false teaching of souls and reincarnation, after a brief admission of the truth, because the occult sells and gave him power over his disciples. He reverted to his old lies during the last years of his life, and that is unforgivable. He knew the truth, but spoke lies instead for purely selfish reasons. If you love someone, you want to tell them the truth. All adult human beings deserve the truth, and truth is needed to make rational decisions about how to conduct your own life. Rajneesh made himself the enemy of truth, not the great Tantric teacher you claim. He used his disciples for purely selfish reasons, and he did it all while cosmically conscious. As I said, cosmic consciousness changes nothing, because it not related to intelligence, wisdom, or honesty at all. You are confused because you have all those human attributes mixed up as one phenomena, which they are not. I made the same mistake in my own thinking for many years, but I was wrong, just like you are this morning.

                            Christopher Calder




                            Reply
                          Christopher Calder: RE:answering Christopher calder
                          WWW: home.att.net/~meditation
                          Email: calderhome@yahoo.com
                          Date: Sep 3, 2007, 17:07
                          "look (watch) thinking (imagining) which labels, as if is proof, which are wanting to believe"
                          ---------- ---
                          If you really knew something, and had something important to say, you would do more than just post hit and run cryptic comments, and you would sign your name to your posts.

                          My experience with Osho people is that they cannot think, write, or debate, and have no interest in finding the truth, only in covering it up.

                          Example: I posted an article written by former Oregon Congressman, Jim Weaver, where the Congressman states that he toured Rajneesh's Oregon commune and found nitrous oxide spigots custom installed by Rajneesh's bed. Anthony cannot refute this story in any reasonable way, so he just asks, "How did he know they were nitrous oxide spigots." That is not a intelligent debating question, and is like asking how did he know that a TV was a TV, a radio was a radio, or a door was a door. Nitrous oxide equipment does not look like anything else, and Rajneesh was known to be a recreational nitrous oxide user. Rajneesh was not blowing up helium balloons by his bed, or doing ark welding in bed, and the equipment for those gasses is different from nitrous oxide equipment. But Rajneesh people cannot think, are dishonest, and can only throw out irrational, cryptic, or irrelevant comments to obfuscate the obvious. They do not want people to know what really happened.
                          ---
                          "I went through the abandoned city of Rajneeshpuram and saw things that were almost unbelievable. Ma Anand Sheela's headquarters, a group of mobile homes pieced together, was a hive of secret doors and hidden tunnels, her private room a command post with electronic listening gear tapped into every room in the development. The Bhagwan's parquet-paneled quarters had nitrogen oxide spigots by his bedside, and was surrounded by huge bathrooms with multiple showers." - Jim Weaver, former Oregon Congressman
                          ---
                          If people really wanted to find the truth, they would not follow anyone. Rajneesh reminds me of Venezuelan President, Hugo Chavez. I agree with many of the things Chavez says, and he has done some very good deeds as well, but he basically went power mad, and is now trying to turn himself into a dictator for life, just like Fidel Castro did. I appreciate Chavez's opposition to George W. Bush and American wars and imperialism, but I do not like Chavez's self-indulgent and dishonest elevation of himself to the role of God in human form. Dictatorships do not work, be they formed in Cuba, Russia, or in a desert commune in Oregon.

                          As an example, you can probably play golf. Tiger Woods can also play golf. The difference between your golf game and Tiger Wood's golf game is about like the difference between your meditation potential and Rajneesh's meditation potential. There is no comparison. But that does not mean that your views on politics, economics, or life in general are any less valid than Rajneeh's views. The raw consciousness of meditation/enlightenment is NOT intelligence. Intelligence and consciousness are two very different things. Both J. Krishnamurti and Rajneesh were "enlightened" in the Eastern esoteric sense of the word, and they both had great amounts of raw consciousness, which was a genetically derived gift, but their teachings were radically different. If there was one true "enlightened" teaching, then all of the so-called enlightened teachers of the world would tell the same story and use the same methods. That is not the case, because there is no authority, and no "enlightenment" in the sense that Rajneesh falsely claimed to possess. Cosmic consciousness is not wisdom, it is only an energy phenomena in the brain that does not arise from the thinking and reasoning parts of the brain. In fact, those thinking and reasoning areas of the brain are usually subdued and turned off by the experience of great cosmic consciousness.

                          The brain tends to specialize in certain areas of merit and use, because the human brain only weighs about 3 pounds. That is why a person may be a great painter, or a great mathematician, but usually not both, and certainly not a great musician as well. Leonardo da Vinci was a very rare human who could do many things, but he was not good at everything. There is only so much brain mass to go around to cover all the needed functions to perform all tasks. No one person is good at everything, because none of us have the brain power and brain size needed to be good at everything.

                          If you look at the history of the "enlightened", and read their words carefully, you will find they mainly specialized in consciousness, and none were very much good at anything else. None have been good at science, economics, politics, or much of anything except spontaneous meditation. They were mainly below normal in other areas of life, not above normal in their capacities. Their enlightenment came with a reduction, not an expansion, of their abilities in other areas of accomplishment.

                          Rajnee sh could not do math, was horrible at understanding even basic scientific principles, and could not sing well, play an instrument, or design a house. He became fooled by his own energy of consciousness and equated that energy with intelligence, which it is not. Rajneesh once said that "History is irrelevant." That was probably the most stupid and dangerous thing he ever said. If you cannot learn from history, then you will go on repeating the same mistakes, over and over. History tells us that dictatorships and cult followings of "infallible" leaders do not work. None of us are God, because their is no God, and none of us are infallible, because DNA has not evolved to that high state of perfection. The mathematical odds say that human perfection cannot happen.

                          see: http://home.att.net/~medi tation/math.html

                          Chris topher Calder


                          Reply
sahyo: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Sep 2, 2007, 7:56
minus "&quo t"

;)

Reply
    p.r.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
    Date: Sep 3, 2007, 16:30

    . pfuetze .. an amoral 'student' of 'meditations' .......

    . slavishly submitted to a sexual proclivity in 'India' .......

    . that later coagulated into a 'calderous' .......

    . 'private physical' obsession .......

    . with 'mystics' and their 'bodies' .......

    . a 'master' debatory mixture .......

    . that continues to frenetically feed .......

    . his 'guru' lust and envy .......


    . his 'guru' lust and envy .......

    . the root cause of pfuetze 'becoming' calder .......

    . the root of all 'his' guttural gnarled 'guru' gnawings .......

    . calder's 'guru' lust and envy .......

    Reply
      Eunice Wellington: respondig to Chris calder
      Date: Sep 3, 2007, 19:10
      I am sorry Chris but you can not tell me what has been my experience with Rajeneesh. Neither can you tell me I have been coned. I am a well aware intelligent person who has a very different view of the same events. Your argument in relation to my experience is the same that you say other people are doing with you. I do not exect you to agree... but I was there... not in a cloud, not drugged, not asleep. I was there living with a remarcable human being who owned nothing... I am sorry but this is the truth. I do not like your "holier than thou" scientist attitude. Accept my view as "my view" and moreover as my own personal experience.
      I grew more as a human being, being his disciple than anything else I ever lived. Not because I believed in what he said, not because I was foolled by a con man. But because I learned the art of letting go into life and its woders... I learned this from HIM.
      I will be forever greatful.
      Take care...good luck in your Cruzade.
      Eunice

      Reply
        Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:respondig to Chris calder
        Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
        Date: Sep 3, 2007, 21:09
        Well, well, I think we are hitting the celing in this discussion. Evidently, Mr. Calder has his own belifs in genetics, DNA, biologial bases of conscousness...and that´s it. I am not saying his ideas are wrong. I just say I do not know about these things. I do not know if there is a soul, or reincarnation, or karma or enlightenment.
        I remember rajneesh saying " Only that which you live directly is yours. The rest is borrowed knowledge" (Golden Nuggets). So I humbly have to say i do not know. And it does not matter that i don´t. because I have never come accross anyone who does. Even osho himself said he did not know (Rajneesh, "Come and follow me", 1978).
        So, So far MR. Calde has not supplyed one reliable eye wittness to his whole " N02 affair". So that is all. Thank you for the time.
        And as far as your old frend Eunice, well, She should be "a schizophrenic, someone with bipolar depression, or other mental derangement, you keep repeating ridiculous thongs over and over again. Your brain is not functioning correctly" as you called me, for having a different experience or vision than yours. If there is anyone here that sounds like a fanatic cult follower is you Mr. calder who gets offensive and hiperventilated when your"ideas" are refuted. And you think that anyone who differs from you must be wrong, because your are right and sesitive and can "see" things and "tell" when people are drugged. and from far away. Someone who takes a few statements made by osho as an evangelical.
        Any way, I am tyred of being insulted by this Man. enough is enough.
        One last advise. If you really want to be taken seriously. Please put down some refernces in your articles. It takes away the feeling that you are "making all this up" and it adds some scholary fling to your post.
        Anthony Thompson Ph. D.
        read my full response in:
        http://www.dynamicbr ain.net/christopher-calde r-krishna-christ-and-his- lying-or-misinformed-lost -truth

        Reply
          Christopher Calder: RE:respondig to Chris calder
          WWW: home.att.net/~meditation/CommonLies.html
          Email: calkderhome@yahoo.com
          Date: Sep 3, 2007, 22:31
          Anthony,

          My criticisms of you are fair and well founded. You make Bill Clinton's claims that "I never had sex with that woman, Monica Lewinsky" seem honest. Remember the Clinton quote, "That depends on what the definition of 'is' is? That is about your level of debating skills and honesty. It could have been worse, however. You could have threatened my life, or suggested that we rob banks to start a new Osho cult. Believe it or not, there are even worse Osho people than you.

          Christopher Calder


          Reply
        Christopher Calder: RE:respondig to Chris calder
        WWW: home.att.net/~meditation
        Email: calderhome@yahoo.com
        Date: Sep 3, 2007, 22:19
        Eunice,

        You are trying to look at only hand picked parts of the truth, pleasant fragments of the facts, and ignoring what you do not wish to see or remember. You had a wonderful experience at Woodlands Building, as did I. But what about the men, women, and children who were poisoned with salmonella bacteria by Ma Anand Sheela and her sannyasin agents? Sheela was hand picked and personally instructed by Rajneesh, but Rajneesh never apologized for the horrific germ warfare attack on innocent civilians conducted by his own devoted disciples. His motto seemed to be "The buck stops everywhere but with me!" Those Rajneesh disciples who did the germ warfare poisoning had absolute trust and blind faith in Rajneesh, and they never questioned his authority, as you feel I have wrongly done. Was the experience of the 751 people poisoned by the Rajneesh cult as pleasant as your experience at Woodlands Building? Rajneesh did not order or conduct the poisoning himself, but he created the totalitarian, spiritual-fascist atmosphere that allowed such crimes to occur. J. Krishnamurti called Rajneesh a "criminal" and branded Rajneesh's Oregon commune "a concentration camp under the dictatorship of enlightenment." Rajneesh should have known better, but he was too drunk on drugs to act responsibly. I believe you met and respected J. Krishnamurti. Does J. Krishnamurti have a right to criticize Osho's faults and crimes, but I do not? What about the people who lost their homes, jobs, spouses and children to the Osho cult? Was their experience as good as yours? Rajneesh didn't get better with age, he got worse, more corrupt, and more foolish.

        In my essay, "Osho, Bhagwan Rajneesh, and the Lost Truth," I try to tell the whole Rajneesh-Osho story, both the good and the bad. see:

        http://home.att.net/~ meditation/Osho.html

        I n the end, Rajneesh became so crazy that Vivek killed herself. Things went bad, ...very bad. You remember the best of times at Woodlands Building, as do I. Others were with him longer and saw the darker side, the drug induced insanity side, and things were not so good for them.

        I do not believe in the spirit world. It is therefore unfair to say that I claim it be "holier than thou." A critical point in all my essays is that I do not believe in the "holy," the "spiritual," and the "divine." I try to explain what happened in a rational and honest way, so that others will not make the same mistakes in the future. I am trying to correct some of the damage done to the world, and to the meditation community specifically, that Rajneesh himself inflicted out of his own stupidity and arrogance. You do not wish to remember the bad things, so my words made you angry. There is no way I can tell the whole truth about Rajneesh and not make many current and former Rajneesh followers very mad. That is why so many good people who know the truth choose to remain silent on all of these important issues. Understandably, few people want anger, cheap shots, and death threats directed at them.

        Christopher Calder

        Reply
          Eunice Wellington: RE:respondig to Chris calder
          Date: Sep 3, 2007, 23:38
          Chris, dear. I am not a blind old woman. But I am not going to "throw the baby with the bath water". J. Krishnamurti was also betrayed by his personal assistant and this assistant also did things in the name of Krishnamurti that to this day, some of the older friends still think it was him who was behind.
          I am well aware of the whole story. As I think was Rajneesh himself. I still remeber when he said back in 1985 that he was not resposable for the crimes, but he was willing to take responsability for not being more concerned about what Sheela was doing. But even that is not the issue. Everyone is ultimately responsible for him/herself. You, me, Rajneesh, the sannyasins.
          The issue here is that this man touched millions of people toward their own awakening, in a way that noone, even Krishnamurti did. Krishnamurti surrounded himself with intelectuals who belived what he said about no need of a master. See where is krishnamurti´s work today...at the back of a library of the very same intelectuals. See where is Rajneesh´s work today... still liberating and touching thousands of people all over the world. His meditations still help people to be free from repressed emotions. To become quieter and silent. And his understanding of the workings of human beings regarding love, intimacy, creativity, sharing and living my own truth, going in, etc are still golden nuggests. Read any book and you will see.
          The fleet of cars, the preety girls... all that is irrelevant. Whoever felt hurt by being associated with him should take responsability for him/herself and the choices they made... Do you remember what it felt like to be blissed out in silence in his presence. That awoke something in you, me and the hundred of thousands of people who sat at his feet. And that is something that can not be debated. He helped us all to find this space of meditation.
          Regarding your exchange with Mr. Thompson, I think he makes a point. There is no need to be violent Chris. He did not threatened you. He just disagreed and presented what I think are valid arguments. Even I am thinking of one myself: Why did bhagwan called for dental sessions if he had the Nitrous Oxide by the side of his bed? he could not turn the faucet on?
          Chris, I have dear memories of our time together... lighten up boy, life is much more rich than just being stuck in resentement... that after all, the only person hurt by it...is you.
          The way out of emotional tension is through greatfulness. And hear this advice of an old lady. Only greatfulness liberates. Your cruzade is a step egainst your own peace of mind. Let them take responsabilities for them selves. Everyone needs to come to his own terms with life.
          You are fifty something now, I presume. Not much time left... just say thank you to the old man and let the others to come to find their own truth.
          Love
          Eunice

          Reply
sahyo: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Sep 3, 2007, 20:57
was responding p.r.

Reply
HK: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: helen97531@yahoo.com
Date: Sep 3, 2007, 23:11
No one will ever find out who is Osho, because he is a Mystic......His books shows & helps me to taste the mystery of life..And I am very grateful that he existed....

Reply
    phil: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email:
    Date: Sep 4, 2007, 0:52
    come on chris,
    listen to the old bird!
    eunice is right.
    lighten up.
    wasting your life being angry and bitter-for what?
    `i`m not angry at what rajneesh did to me but what he did to himself`
    er.right.
    come on mate,that sounds very silly indeed.

    why do you have to try to show you are right about everything?
    can`t you let others and yourself just be occasionally?
    i don`t know what the chemical formula is for compassion.maybe you could look it up in one of your neurology books?

    no doubt you wish that the rajneesh movement could have remained small,so you could have been a major player.
    krishna christ almighty!
    it has a certain ring to it...
    you could have been a contender!




    Reply
An Osho Fan: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: indrajit.iit@gmail.com
Date: Sep 5, 2007, 19:06
However much Chris Calder is blind in his anger against Osho and in his belief that this life is all there is to any living creature, but nevertheless he is trying to make a somewhat rational argument against things Osho would have said during his lifetimes (which he thinks are intentional lies), his character as an individual (reference to his sexual activities) and the actions of Ma Ananda Sheela (which he believes is a direct consequence of her being a Osho follower).

I said he is "trying" to make and argument and in now way mean that he has succeded in displaying much reason in what he is saying.

All the same, is he thinks thousands ( probably millions) of people are has been and being duped till today by a certain individual, I think he has every right to publish matter trying to expose facts which might stop people from being duped by a con man.

But in this respect, I dearly wish people who believe he is lying or giving misinformation be a bit more objective whatever they say and not try to simply dissuade Chris by saying "give up your anger", "it will hurt only you", "live in love" and such..

Calder is making arguments to establish certain things as facts. If you belive they are not, please do make your own arguments ( just like many that had been made above) from your own knowledge and understanding, nstead of spreading love. Because, I don't think love or hatred is not the point in this long debate that has ensued on this page, but if there is any truth to Calders article on Rajneesh and if yes, how much of it, and if it really means what Calder says it means.

Being a Osho supporter, I simply wish the other supporters were a bit more objective in their remarks.

That's all.

Indrajit

Reply
    Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: athomson@gmail.com
    Date: Sep 5, 2007, 19:18
    The facts I have discussed at length. In fact I have discussed each and single point where I think Calder is wrong or lying
    see
    http://www.dy namicbrain.net/christophe r-calder-krishna-christ-a nd-his-lying-or-misinform ed-lost-truth
    But I do not think that is an unimportant matter the fact that calder refutes his opponnebts with insults and agression.
    I have benn willing to openly discuss, suply proofs... no newpaper clips, but eye witnesses account, but i got so much shit that i got tyred.
    good luck all
    Anthony

    Reply
      Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
      Date: Sep 6, 2007, 6:03
      Indrajit. I will give you a coule of links that might be interesting as well:
      http://www2.db.dk/ pe/twotales.htm
      www.ashe-prem.org/two/d avisson.shtml
      It might give you some ideas of the trip of osho in USA

      anthony


      Reply
Christopher Calder: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
WWW: home.att.net/~meditation
Email: calderhome@yahoo.com
Date: Sep 7, 2007, 0:45
For clarification, yet again, my assertion is that nitrous oxide and Valium use, combined with Rajneesh basic disease, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (known as ME in Europe), caused Rajneesh's dementia, not his actual death. I have never stated or implied that nitrous oxide killed him. If he died of heart disease as stated by the ashram, it was probably mainly due to his type 2 diabetes and his age, with a much lesser negative effect coming from the drugs and CFS. Everything we do has an effect on us, for good and for bad, and excessive drug use and CFS do effect the heart, but the main cause of his heart failure, if that was the real cause, was probably diabetes, age, and lack of exercise. If he did commit suicide, he obviously did not shoot himself, and his doctors would have had to give him morphine or some kind of barbiturates/sedatives, the only two easily lethal class of drugs available in India for them to use. His death was mysterious, and seemed planned by observers. I do not know what is the truth of it, and I would place my bet 50-50, suicide or heart failure, as an even bet.

The drugs and the CFS certainly did deteriorate his mental condition. His brain became so negatively effected that he was having hallucinations and became paranoid, thinking that a group of German disciples had cast an evil spell on him. He saw green flashes of light in his mind, a common symptom of nitrous oxide use. It is also common for people addicted to benzodiazepine drugs (of which Valium is the most famous) to become paranoid and think the CIA or some other evil force is out to get them, or even poison them. Rajneesh must have read about "synthetic heroin" somewhere, which I assume refers to a drug called fentanyl, and its many related chemical compounds, some of which are up to 4,000 times more potent than morphine. Rajneesh then wildly speculated that "synthetic heroin" may have been used to poison him. Fentanyl is not toxic except as a opiate, and therefore as an inhibitor of respiration. The effect of most fentanyl compounds last only a few hours (1 to 8 hours depending on which compound), and if they do not kill you quickly, they will not kill you or harm you at all. Perhaps you might go into a coma that lasts a day, but you will die relatively quickly. After years of prolonged daily use, any opiate can lead to deafness, but that is irrelevant to Rajneesh's wild speculation and claims on the subject. The idea that Rajneesh could be poisoned by giving him fentynil is absurd, and there are no reports of Rajneesh going to sleep and not being able to wake up. In jail he would have been monitored, so we know that he never went into a coma.

There is no evidence that Rajneesh was poisoned by either radiation or thallium. The evidence of his death rules out those two possibilities quite clearly. There is no evidence at all that Rajneesh was poisoned by anything at all other than his own voluntary drug use, nitrous oxide and Valium. Nitrous oxide is psychologically addictive, while Valium is also physically addictive. Valium use leads to slurred speech in high doses, and Rajneesh showed all the symptoms of high dose Valium use in taped lectures that were broadcast on various television stations around the country. As stated, I saw them on cable TV in Seattle. He had no disease that can explain those symptoms, and even his CFS cannot explain that level of grogginess and slurred speech. Only an easily identifiable severe neurological ailment like Myasthenia Gravis could explain Rajneesh's appearance and speech on those tapes. The only logical explanation was his drug use, which has been widely confirmed by many sources. Ma Anand Sheela, Shivanmurti, the FBI, the Oregon police, and his own personal dentist, Devageet, have stated Rajneesh used both Valium and nitrous oxide. Anthony absurdly dismiss anything that Sheela, Shivamurti, and Satya Bharti say, simply because he does not want eyewitness accounts that go against his false utopian vision of Rajneesh. Anthony only values sources that confirm his ideas that this is all a conspiracy against Rajneesh by people with some mysterious ax to grind against him. Anthony has tunnel vision, and he can only see a tiny square inch section of bark, but never the forest.

I was there in Bombay when Rajneesh gave talks about how Hitler was connected to an occult Buddhist group which Rajneesh himself was psychically connected to. Many of Rajneesh's pro-Hitler comments were reported in newspapers around the world, and if Anthony really wants to do research, he can find them. First he can get the back issue of the German Magazine "Stern" and read Rajneesh's very pro-Hitler interview with that magazine. Anthony does not seem to be aware that Rajneesh's books have been highly edited, and much of his insane ranting have been removed over the years. The Osho ashram in Poona is a business, and it is not in their interest to reveal all the dirty laundry about Rajneesh. Anthony relies for his beliefs on highly non-objective sources, people who have great motive to cover up and little motive to tell the truth. As soon as someone tells the truth, Anthony immediately brands them as a disgruntled former disciples and covers his ears and starts to hum. Anthony just does not want to know the truth, and if you do not want to know something, you can shut down your mind whenever an offending truth presents itself. That is exactly what Anthony and many Rajneesh disciples do. They shut down their minds, and that is why they often speak and write like zombies, spurting out cryptic and unintelligible spiritual gibberish, and that is why I have often stated that they say things "that only makes sense to someone wearing a straight jacket." Please do quote me on that line!

Anthony publicly declares that he is a "scholar," yet he writes like a gas station attendant. He has very poor reading comprehension skills, and constantly misquotes and misinterprets my words. I told Anthony that his reasoning abilities were impaired, much in the same way people with bipolar depression and schizophrenia have impaired reasoning abilities. I never gave him a direct diagnosis of either of those two mental illnesses. I am not sure what mental problem Anthony has, but he obviously has one. He cannot evaluate facts and information in a sane and reasonable way, as any normal adult can. I find this defect in most Osho people. It is like trying to talk to the living dead. This is not really surprising, as all of the reasonable people have left the cult years ago. What is left are people with poor mental skills and even worse judgment. They want to believe the old myths and programming that Rajneesh and other phony gurus drilled into their heads. I did say "When people say that Osho only used nitrous oxide for dental reasons, but admit he called in his dentist in the middle of the night for nitrous oxide "treatments," that kind of two faced schizophrenic dishonesty just creeps me out." Obviously, I am using the word "schizophrenic" in the common meaning of *splitting into two parts*, admitting the non-dental use of nitrous oxide in the middle of the night, while retaining the absurd insistence that even non-dental use in the middle of the night was somehow a justified medical procedure.

I am not sure if Anthony ever met Rajneesh personally. He calls himself an "expert" on Rajneesh, yet he discounts Shivamurti, Satya Bharti, myself, and the half dozen or so authors of books written about Rajneesh, exposing his lies and corruption. All of those people actually knew Rajneesh personally. Anthony wants to believe what he believes, and will continue to do so no matter what evidence is presented him.

For the record, and for your web page on me, I am only partially of British decent. My biological father was John Thomas Johansson, who was half Swedish and half English, and my biological mother was mainly French-English, with a hint of Jewish. If my father had not died several weeks before they were to be married, I would have been a Johansson, not adopted by Paul E. Pfuetze, a Vassar College professor.

Best Regards, Christopher Calder

Reply
    Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: athomson@gmail.com
    Date: Sep 7, 2007, 16:20
    Mr. Calder.

    Your derogatory comment that I write like a �gas station attendant� is the result of english being my second language. My first language is spanish and I have no english spell-check in my computer.

    Regarding what you say about N02 and valium. I personally interviewd Devageet, Osho´s dentist and he said to me inprivate and in public that:
    �Osho never used nitrous oxide, I used it, as his dentist, during his dental treatment sessions. Osho, as other masters have demonstrated ( see Nikhilananda taking a massive dose of LSD on his first meeting with Guru Ram Dass, and showing no effects whatsoever), showed that the effects of Nitrous Oxide during his dental treatment had no effects of diminishing his clarity and awareness. He repeatedly showed that he could easily use the physiological effects of relaxation for a creative purpose, hence the three books dictated while in the dental chair: �Notes of a Madman�, �Books I have loved�, and �Glimpses of a Golden Childhood�.Having said that I can speak about aspects which do not betray that trust. Nitrous Oxide is a valid and valued analgesic and anaesthetic agent, as you know, and it still provides the basis of anaesthetic techniques because of its proven track record of safety and efficacy. It is a fact too that people have used it for leisure purposes. Osho was given nitrous oxide in a purely dental context."
    His equipment technician said:
    �during the Ranch and in Poona 2 I was the dental room technician, responsible for looking after the equipment. Unless Osho was having surreptitious sessions without my knowledge, he wasn't using gas on a daily, or even weekly basis. He did have an annoying tendency to want a session at strange times (6am in the morning) but that was Devageets problem�. This is to the claim that Mr. Calder made to me that Devageet had told that Osho used "N02 for months on end"

    Amrito, or Devaraj, Osho´s Doctor said to me that he gave valium a couple of times in poona one, the ranch and poona two. As he gave him medication for diabetes, common flue, muscle pain, aspirin, etc. As any doctor would give any medicine to a patient. He never gave him 60 Ml of valium a day. This idea came from Sheela, the liar. Who was enraged with Osho, after all it was his accusations that threw her into jail. And also it was a way to undermine Amrito´s work. We should not forget that she tryed to kill him at the ranch. And this has been documented.
    Now, a simple reflection would be to try to drive a car each day in the awful ranch roads with 60 miligrams of valium in the body and not to crash into the hunmdred of sannyasins standing by the side of the road. I do not recall any accident.

    Shivamurti was the only one to mention N02 when he attended a dental sesion. Neither Sheela or satya bharti mention anything about that.

    All you say regarding N02, valium, dementia, suicide, allucination, paranoia is just suppositions and imagination on your part, that fit ideas you had from years before about these subjects... nothing more. Do not confuse facts with supositions.

    Thalim and radiation and synthetic heroin are not Osho´s ideas. They are suppositions from his doctors.

    In relation to Osho Looking drugged on cable tv. I have seen those films and to me he looked �out there�, as he always was, not very human, not blinking... enlightenment they call it.
    But witty, clever, inteligent, profound and sharp as always. These are the same discourses that are shown, and you can buy, without any editing every night at the Osho meditation Resort in Poona. So to say that the they edited to get the drugged parts out is just a lie. The drug story your sole imagination.

    I asked Chilean Aseema, who was sheela´s maid in jesus grove and who stayed 6 months after the ranch was emptyed to take care of the property before it was sold, about your �N02 spigots by the side of the bed� and she said that she went to osho´s room many times, in fact she slept there some times and there was nothing like that... no spigots anywhere. She actually asked me from where I got that. Now what do we do with that? She has never even heard the story of the N02 and I asked her to discribe the room in detail without giving her an indication of what i was looking for. And then asked her directly. So this refute your Oregonian article.

    What you say about hitler was recorded in the discourses � I am the gate�. And certainly you appear as one of the editors. No where he said � I loved hitler�. What he says is something that is of public domain, and that is that Hitler had an aliance with Tibetan esoteric groups. In fact the Ttibetans supported the third reich. Where do you think the swastica came from. IT is an old esoteric symbol used both by jains and Tibetants. The Nazies just turened it around.

    Regarding the Stern Magazine interview. Your are confused. The interview was given to Der Spiegel, not Stern. What you mention is not an interview, but an article written by a german female journlaist about her stay in Poona two when Osho greeted her from the stage withe the Nazi salute as a joke. And then afterwards procedded to Speak about the damage that the third reich had done to gernan people and their guilt feelings as a culture.

    The interview in Der Spiegel, I have seen the video ( The last testament, july 19, 1985), and Osho says to both journalists, Erick Widdeman and Reiner Weber, when he is asked about hitler �I love the Man. He was Crazy�, Jokingly to see their reactions To what both german journalist look shocked, later he adds that �he considers the man to be completely immoral and a murderer� and he compares him with mahatma ghandi. Not to speak positive about hitler, but to show how immoral mahatma gandhi was. Now, the article in Der Spiegel, edited of course, show Osho comparing Hitler and Ghandi as saying both were great men. See how things are distored? Now this is why i suggest you use refernces. Otherwise what you write has no value. A quote without a refernce is a lie, sir.

    Finally I am supplying facts, quotes, references, eye-wittnesses, not newspaper clips and books i read. Who has the tunnel vision? Who belives what he wants to believe?
    I have the reports of the people directly involved saying you lie... or imagine things.
    Best regards
    Anthont thompson Ph. D.


    Reply
      : RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      Date: Sep 7, 2007, 19:59
      If I confused the Stern magazine story with the Der Spiegel interview, I apologize. This is stuff I read many years ago, and the quotes were picked up in newspapers all around the world. I was at the Poona lectures when Rajneesh said that Hitler had "no choice" but to try to exterminate the Jews. I heard it first hand, as did hundreds of other people in the hall. You do not deny his comments praising Hitler, you try to pour honey on them and make them sound sweet and innocent. They were insane comments from an insane man. Rajneesh admired dictators, and had good things to say about South American dictators as well. Rajneesh was never a democrat. He was a man who believed that only he knew best, and that his rule was best for everyone. His whole philosophy was that there was such a thing as 'enlightenment' and that only the enlightened few knew what life was all about. Of course, he was the king of the enlightened elite, and the rest were second rate compared to him. It was all just an ego trip for him with no basis in fact. If anything, the phenomena we call "enlightenment" makes you a bit dumber. None of the great enlightened teachers were much good at anything except meditation. Their brains become specialized in meditation to the detriment of reasoning power and other positive attributes. J. Krishnamurti was no genius, and was a very poor student at school. Meher Baba was a tremendously egoistic and delusional teacher who mainly just bragged about how great he was. Enlightenment is not a magical phenomena that puts everything right inside your skull. Those great enlightened men that people worships all had allot of crazy and wrong ideas, and many behaved very badly indeed.

      Rajneesh used the myth of Tantra to rationalize his lies, crimes, and abuses. 'Tantra' can mean many things. It can mean 'method,' so just sitting in meditation or doing breathing exercises can be call "Tantra," and that is legitimate. But Rajneesh's use of the word Tantra (left handed Tantra) was just a scam to rationalize exploiting others and behaving in self-indulgent and dishonest ways. He was misleading people from day one, not leading them to the true facts of life. He said "trust me", I am enlightened and I know better than you. The problem was he didn't know better than anyone. His whole philosophy was wrong and destructive. People should not become mental slaves of anyone else. That is how ants work in colonies, all slaves to the queen. Human beings are more sophisticated than ants, and they deserve a will of their own.

      Your continued ridiculous assertions about Rajneesh's nitrous oxide use and Devageet's statements are getting old. You and Devageet love talking out of both sides of your mouths on this issue, and saying things that contradict your own statements. There is NO legitimate use of nitrous oxide other than very short term use for dental surgery only. Any other use by a dentist or a lay person is considered nitrous oxide drug abuse. Clearly, Rajneesh was a recreational user of nitrous oxide.

      I stated that Rajneesh's books were heavily edited. I never said his video tapes were edited. I have never bought any and would have no opinion on that. Obviously, they did not try to hide his drugged out lectures that I saw on Seattle TV because they were publicly broadcast. It is a fact that his books were heavily edited for content, and much of his insane and ridiculous statements were removed. That is a fact. They want to make him sound more sane, more up-to date, and less of an old fashioned Indian guru, which he was in many ways.

      I never intended to publish a long Web page on Rajneesh at all. I wrote a few short paragraphs on the Rajneesh fall from grace and explained how I thought such a thing could happen. Then the e-mail letters started to come in and people wanted to know more, or tell me of their horror stories about the ranch and all the corruption that existed there. I gradually expanded the essay piece by piece over years because I felt people should know the whole story. Shivamurti's book is difficult to find, and there needed to be some Web resource so that people can learn the facts of the fall of Rajneesh. Rajneesh was a drug addicted and very ill man in his later years. He was an admirer of Hitler and other strong men, and that is how he ran the Oregon commune: total control, wiretapping, and telling people they needed to get his permission even to leave. He used the same dirty tricks of mind control and submission that so many other self-deluded gurus have used, with the exact same disastrous results.

      Those are all facts, and so far you have refuted none of it, only pointed out that I confused the names of two German publications, but that the quotes themselves were accurate. Rajneesh's life cannot be defended in any sane and rational way. You can pretend that it all did not happen, but you will never erase the video tape of Rajneesh on the ABC news show, NIGHTLINE, where he lies through his teeth and embarrass himself and all of his disciples. If you look, you can find the video tape where he brags that he has had "sex with hundreds of women". That quote was published in papers all over the world, but it was also broadcast on television. I have forgotten if it was on one of the 60 MINUTES show or on one of the other TV news stories about him. The fact that you spent so much time and energy trying to deny that Rajneesh had sex with his own female disciples is ridiculous given his own video taped statements on the subject, which backs up Shivamurti's and Satya Bharti's books. Shivamurti knew Rajneesh very intimately, and he was his bodyguard. You deny things that everyone who was there knew, and you obfuscate the facts at every opportunity. You still have not stated whether you have ever even met Rajneesh himself.

      You also do not seem to appreciate that I was with many other Indian gurus, and most had the same general modus operandi. Muktananda was a thug who hit little kids and had sex with his female disciples, some of them well under age. Satchidananda taught celibacy, but has sex with his own female disciples, and tried to force himself sexually on them on many occasions. Dr. Mishra taught the virtues of celibacy but had sex with his female disciples, and intentionally walked into rooms when they were naked, pretending it was just an accident. Indian gurus like white women, and they like the big bucks. It's a business, a big business, and Rajneesh added drug abuse and many other crimes on top of the usual Indian guru abuses.

      All of the gurus I mentioned had powerful vibrations and could propel their students to higher levels of consciousness. The problem is, consciousness is not wisdom, not virtue, not honesty, not intelligence of any kind. It is a brain function similar to light. You can light up a room very brightly, but a insane criminal can live in a well lit room just as easily as a kind and wise genius. People who increase their consciousness level become confused and deluded and think it makes them smarter and better than others, but does not. In that sense "enlightenment" can become just another form of self-delusion. There is no "moksha," no "nirvana", and no escaping death, no reincarnation, no coming back, no freedom from the laws of nature. There is no "perfect state of being," but you can become cosmically conscious, which is normal and natural for humans to experience, even if it has little or no survival value.

      see:

      "Common Lies of the Phony World of Mystics"

      http://h ome.att.net/~meditation/C ommonLies.html

      Christopher Calder


      Reply
      Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      Email: athomson@gmail.com
      Date: Sep 7, 2007, 20:05
      Read my full responseIn:
      http://www.d ynamicbrain.net/christoph er-calder-krishna-christ- and-his-lying-or-misinfor med-lost-truth

      Reply
        Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
        Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
        Date: Sep 7, 2007, 20:30
        Sir, You are misquoting me. I never said osho was celibate. Read my responses or article.Please.!
        Second I am not puring honey on anything. Just stating what i have seen and read. Not interpreting or, specially, quoting someone who is dead without saying where is that quote comming from.
        I can state i Heard osho say whatever i can imagine. but if I can not supply a refernce or a proof to that, it is an irrelevant statement.
        I can get you a dozen qupotes where he stated he loved the jews. In fact 40% of his disciles were jews! I can give you one refernce:Last estament, 1985, page 99 he says "I love them, what to say about liking them."
        So your confusing magazines is not just coincidence. This is the unprofessional and irresponsable way you write: from your own memory, stories you heard, rumors.. and of course, your special ability to " feel" people in television sets or from 40 meters away. Great!
        I dare you to come up with one quote with reference where he is talking positively of a south american dictator, Please!!

        Again, why would people "heavly edit" rajneesh´s books if anyone can buy a video or an audio recording of the same speech. They are sold everywhere anybody c an hear what he said.
        What you call facts are just your assumptions. I am sorry.Again get me the FBI reports you quote, Get me an eyewitnss realiable account of the drug addiction story...

        I will not discuss your theories regarding enlightenment, meditation, brain functioning and cosmic consciossnes, because you are neither a neurologist or a research scientist. Any one can see the film " what the bleep do we know" go to internet and read and quote ( without any refernce) any idea regarding other people´s studies in relation to this and then state it asproven fact. To what laboratory did you go to? in what field reserch have you been involved? Please!!!
        i am waiting
        Anthony Thompson PHD
        http://www.dynamicbr ain.net/christopher-calde r-krishna-christ-and-his- lying-or-misinformed-lost -truth

        Reply
          Christopher Calder: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
          WWW: home.att.net/~meditation
          Email: calderhome@yahoo.com
          Date: Sep 8, 2007, 2:01
          Anthony,

          You are not the first person to call me a liar for telling people what Rajneesh himself said. In discussions with other Osho people, I told about when Rajneesh gave his theory that if you had intercourse for 3 hours with a woman, the baby produced would be a Buddha. I was called a liar until someone looked it up and found out it was true.

          You use to claim that I was never close to Rajneesh. Now you seem to have dropped that false claim. You lied!

          You burnt up allot of calories trying to say that I made up stories about Rajneesh grabbing women's breasts and having sex with them at Woodlands. You even hinted I got those stories from Shivamurti, which is ridiculous, because he was largely at a small farm commune outside of Bombay, not living at Woodlands. How Shivamurti found out about the Woodlands incidents I do not know, but I was physically there and they were all people I knew and talked to. I have never talked to Shivamurti in my entire life. We were around each other, but we traveled in different circles and we never spoke to each other in conversation. Once when I was in the bathroom at Bhagwan's bungalow in Poona at the wrong time, and he banged on the door, asking me to get out, as he had to take a shower so he could GUARD Rajneesh during nightly darshan. He spoke to me through a bathroom door. That is all. I liked Shivamurti and I do trust him, but we were never friends and we did not conspire to slander Rajneesh. I knew Satya Bharti Franklin very well as she visited the upstate New York Rajneesh ashram where I stayed for many months. I knew her at Woodlands and in Poona as well. She has no motive to lie about Rajneesh, and her book is very accurate. Both Shivamurti and Satya Bharti got the details of the life of Rajneesh at Woodland's right, and details about his life at Poona right, so why would both suddenly lose the ability to get the facts straight at the Oregon ranch? I was only at the ranch twice, and it was a very creepy experience. J. Krishnamurti's statements about it being a "concentration camp" were correct.

          Again, I ask, have you ever met Rajneesh even once?

          Rajneesh pumped Jews for money all he could. On occasion he also praised Indian politicians he wanted to sway and gain support from, especially Indera Ghandi. It was his way to manipulate people. He praised people when he wanted something from them, and condemned them when he had no use for them. In a face to face meeting I had with Rajneesh at Woodlands, he told me directly that U.G. Krishnamurti was "realized." When U.G. started criticizing Rajneesh, Rajneesh suddenly changed his story and started to call U.G. a "phony guru." Rajneesh was a chronic liar, and he lied every day as a guru to gain power and money. He lied about reincarnation, he lied about being in a perfect state of enlightenment, he lied about being infallible, he lied about other gurus who criticized him, he lied about not getting a woman pregnant, he lied about not taking drugs, then he at least partially admitted the truth about his love of nitrous oxide. He lied about almost everything.

          If your prime motive is to tell the truth, then you just tell it. You do not lie to people to lead them to the truth, you just tell the truth from the very start. Rajneesh was creating a guru business. Lying was part of his business plan. Even I felt I had to edit out some of his grandiose and obnoxious words out of 'The Silent Explosion," his first hard cover book which I helped edit and which I named. It is common knowledge that all of his books have been edited heavily to remove rants and obnoxious comments. Ask around, you will find sannyasins and former sannyasins who remember the infamous lecture where he ranted against Jews and how Hitler "had no choice" but to try and exterminate them. That lecture was given in Poona, not Bombay, and I would guess around 1974, but I did not keep track of the dates. You do not seem to appreciate that I never carried around a notebook all these years as a reporter in hopes of one day writing about Rajneesh. But my quotes are accurate, and they were burned into my brain when I read them or heard them directly from his own mouth. You are in political terms "stonewalling." In psychological terms, your are in "denial."

          As far as Rajneesh taking LSD, I do not blame him for that. It shows he was open minded, which is good. I just wish he had taken it when he was 18, as I did, and not when he was in his fifties and had major responsibilities. It was Neem Karoli Baba (died in 1973), Ram Dass's guru, who took 500 micrograms of LSD to impress Ram Dass, or so the story goes. That really should not impress that much as thousands, if not millions of ordinary people have taken 500 micrograms of LSD and not gone crazy or jumped out of windows. A talented yogi like Neam Caroli Baba, or even an average psychedelic drug user should have no problem handling that much LSD with ease. Nityananda (died 1963) was Muktananda's guru, and I never heard of him taking drugs.

          I met Ram Dass (Richard Alpert) at Muktananda's ashram in Ganeshpuri, India, in 1970, a few weeks before I met Rajneesh in Bombay. I was there and he came to visit Muktananda.

          Christopher Calder


          Reply
            p.r.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
            Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
            Date: Sep 8, 2007, 9:32

            .calder .... hola .... papal inquisidor ................

            .slow ly slowly ......................... ....................

            . you are becoming more and more laughable ..

            .it may be that humour ......................... ........

            .will expunge the tumour ......................... .....

            .of your ......................... ......................... .....

            .'guru' lusts and envies ......................... ........

            Reply
              Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
              Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
              Date: Sep 8, 2007, 15:33
              Dear calder. I am beginning to like you. I like people who can argue and at the same time are witty and intelligent. I do not have time to answer the things you say right away, but I´ll do it later... mabe tonight.
              However, If you would fill your article with references, including from where you get your neurological-dna stuff. you would be quoted for etenrnity as a Rejaneesh expert. Before you do that, you are just someone nobody remembers from poona one. Which means you were no close to the guy. And someone whose claims can be just refuted as imagination ...
              see you later
              Anthony

              Reply
                Christopher Calder: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
                WWW: home.att.net/~meditation
                Email: calderhome@yahoo.com
                Date: Sep 8, 2007, 19:44
                Anthony,

                You are a hopeless liar and a very unintelligent person. I am sure I am not the first person to tell you that. I ask again, have you ever met Rajneesh, even once?

                Satya Bharti, Shivamurti, and myself were all early close disciples of Rajneesh. I lived at his apartment right across the hall from him, edited his first hard cover book at his request, and helped start his very first ashram in the USA, which was called Samarpan, all at his request. All three of us, Shivamurti, Satya Bharti, and myself had many, many face to face private meetings with Rajneesh over years, and we were all disciples for years. You were not in Bombay and apparently, judging from your silence on the issue, you were not even in Poona when Rajneesh was alive. Ask Tirtha, Swami Yoga Chinmaya, Swami Krishna Saraswati, Mukta, Seema, Neeta, Ravi, Karuna, etc., etc. etc. You have no credibility,...zero.

                I am leaving this forum because there is no point in having a conversation with an insane person, and that is what I have been saying all along. The only people left in the Osho cult are chronic liars and the insane. I wish that were not the case, and I did everything I could to stop things from getting this bad, but that is the way things worked out. When the guru lies all his life, he ends up with disciples who themselves are all liars.

                Signing off,....Cheers, Christopher Calder

                Reply
                  p.r.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
                  Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
                  Date: Sep 8, 2007, 20:40
                  . ......................... ......................... ..............

                  . calder ......................... ......................... .....

                  . never having 'met' himself ......................... .

                  . what to say about anyone else ...................


                  . 'leaves' yet another of his 'tennis games' ....


                  . calder .... the 'man' that never 'met' ....

                  . will again 'lie awake' ..... day and night ............

                  . 'dreaming' of the time ......................... ........

                  . 'calder' plays' tennis' again ......................... .


                  . refusing to see ......................... .................


                  . that the 'one' who 'wins' the point ................

                  . is the one who is not in 'love' .......................

                  .

                  .

                  .


                  Reply
                    Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
                    Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
                    Date: Sep 9, 2007, 0:19
                    Mr. Calder...come on! I have taken your insults all this time and suddenly you get offended... such a sensitive skin! I must have touched some bone there!

                    Now your points.
                    First I have never claimed to have been close to or part of any of rajneesh´s inner circles. I have claimed to be an expert researcher who has devoted 22 years of his life to study this subject. Any claim I have, I have put from where i got it. I have claimed to interview the people directly involved in your allegations who have told me a different story. i said this from the very first post: that i had different second hand information than you and that there was no need to be agressive and insulting because of that.

                    I was in poona back in 88 and i have been 7 times since then.
                    I never questioned your closeness in bombay, I questioned your closeness in poona one and the ranch that it is when the issues I have dicussed happenned. you said many times that from my writing you could tell i was a crazy person, well you could not tell, how could you! that english was not my first language.
                    I never said osho was celibate i just questioned the fact you said that you knew about his sexual encounters. Ok, you knew. i have to trust what you say because I have no way to corroborate it. Your friend Eunice from that time, also doubted your stories, so what to say about me!

                    Any Osho quote that you say you heard and provide no proof is not an argument. I say i heard the man say otherwise. I give you a refernce to look it up... you give me nothing. I can not go into your head!!

                    Shivamurti´s and satya bharti´s books are quite different, but both agree in that their desilution was around Sheela.
                    They both have stories of the rumurs of osho having sex... after all he was the "sex-guru", but none of them seemed to have much problem with that and certaily not shiva who enjoyed that atmosphere back there. I interviwed a close friend of him, from the times he was a resident in kaleidoscope in London, Michael Barnett´s Institute, to the end of his stay in USA. and she told me a lot of stories about him that i will not share here , but put in serious doubts many of the things he says in the book. She also looked like a decent person to me.

                    Reagarding satya Bharti I have nothing to say. She tells her experience and her suppositions about many issues. The only thing that i might question is the fact that she gives to the very same events totally different meanings in her three books, depending on her own conceptual model.

                    Regarding osho and the jews... I am a jew myself. My family escaped 5 minutes before the nazies got to Prague in checkoslovakia... and we are not stupid people. If 40 percent of us make up for his disciples, then we are either strupid for being with an ati-semite or the guy did say something else.

                    I consede that he might have said what you say...he said a lot of things. the same way of the quote I gave you from Der Spiegel, but if you see the whole context the meaning is quite something else. this is the same stupid thing that people quote Osho saying " Only dying liberates" and think he is in favor of suice and then they read the whole idea and it is " only dying liberates, dying to the past, dying to the ego". Because this is what you are doing... and even worst... no references whatsoever.

                    And do not get mad. I interviewed about you people who were very close to osho from 1974 to his death and they did not know you. I did not interview any one from Bombay... my mistake! but the main issues I discusse happned later on.
                    Ok devageet confused baba neem karolie with Nityananda, well you confused Stern with Der Spiegel, but that is not the issue, isn´t it?
                    Finally I am not an eye wittness to anything. I am an investigator: I collect information from eye-witnesses who say you lie... or have been misinformed. What do you want me to do!? You give me no choice but to ask for your references... and the whole context of a chapter. including the neurological stuff.

                    Rajneesh was a master not a philosopher. The things he said, whatever he said, was meant to be heard by the people he was speaking to. So you can get him to say whatever! because he was trying to do something with the people right there. He himself tells the story of buddha being asked if there is a god and he gives three different answers depending on the questioner. You can recall him making anti- women liberation remarks to a question from a radical feminist and then later saying the total opposite to a south americam male chouvinist. Speking of god to an atheist and of the ridiculus idea of a holy father to a catholic. So he spoke agianst the jews, in favor of them, against capitalism, in favor of it. He was trying to tell us not to get hooked in ideas but to drop them... he was destroying our conceptual models, our tendency to assign meaning systems to everything.
                    So it happned that you drop them, great! rejoice! No need to get angry at the man for whatever you heard some time. And it is silly to get now hooked in genetic and neurological research stuff that you are reading as the new answer... we will have you in a couple of years writing angry essays against neurologists for lying to you.
                    Best regards
                    Anthony



                    Reply
                      Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
                      Date: Sep 9, 2007, 0:29
                      http://www.dynamicbrain.n et/christopher-calder-kri shna-christ-and-his-lying -or-misinformed-lost-trut h

                      Reply
                  signing off: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
                  Date: Sep 16, 2007, 11:59
                  christopher calder writes " I am leaving this forum" and then goes on. Just leave - no need even to write "I am leaving this forum"

                  Reply
      An Osho Fan: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      Email: indrajit.iit@gmail.com
      Date: Sep 9, 2007, 10:19
      Anthony,

      as always, thank you for a REALLY objective reply. Your replies are among the few in opposition to Calder that I think are objective enough..though on occassions you too do loose objectivity..

      but this one was dot on the point.

      Regards
      Indraj it

      Reply
An Osho Fan: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email:
Date: Sep 9, 2007, 16:48
For the (now) signed off Christopher Calder i.e.
..and by the way..let's make it two.

As an introduction, I wish to say this.

Mr. Calder, I said earlier that you are "trying" to make an argument to prove that Osho was nothing more than a shrewd businessman who lied left and right to see that people (and exactly the sort he wanted) get attracted to him.

What you have been saying all along in support of your view was some claims from whatever references you have given and almost all of which has been credibly refuted by Mr. Thomson.

In addition to that you have stated to have heard first hand from some Ma Prem that Osho have had sex with her which in my view she could have been easily making up to attract attention and moreover because of some psychological tendency to make up sensational (but untruthful) stories, once again to attract attention. ( after all having sex you Osho definitely made you special)

And as a plus with the above two you have simply (and many times so) vented your opinion that all of Osho followers/people who like whatever Osho said are chronic liers. (Very easy, whom you follow was a chronic lier because he kept contradicting his own statements from time to time, seemingly telling whatever suits the occasion at hand, so you yourself must be a liar. Well maybe you are not a liar, but the way you have visibly interpreted Osho's words makes it clear that you are anything but an intelligent person, someone who looks at the moon when it is pointed to and not at the finger. From how you interpret things, it seems very obvious to me ( someone born in 1976 and who learnt about and started reading Osho since 2003) that you are a person whose entire focus falls on the finger and not the moon. No wonder you have come to the conclusion that Osho was a liar in all respect, because someone who you think claims the finger to be the moon must be a liar.)

And finally, you have, at point blank, thrown your view of "the brain theory of enlightenment" on all the readers of this sharing, without it having any significance to what was being discussed here but just to prove that Osho could very much have been an "enlightened" liar.

To sum up, there are a thousand things that can be said (and very logically and (seemingly from what Mr. Thomson says) credibly so) against all that you say, but since you wish to leave the world of this sharing, "dominated-by-pathol ogical-liars"(what a coincidence! that only pathological liars all over the planet get attracted to the covers/titles of Osho books and start liking what he said ( to speak of people who never visited Puna or has met Osho but only know him thru his videos/tapes or books), you have saved me the trouble to find out meticulously all that I could have said against your claim and the proof you forward in it's support.

But if you still, by any chance come visit this page just to see any additional posts ( as usual, made by some insane and lying Osho follower), here are two things I'd dearly like you to read:

1. Whenever Osho has said to you in person or in some video tape that he "had sex with 100s of women", did he specifically said that he was referring to his present life or that some of the women were his sannyasins..like saying "I've had sex with 100s of my sannyasins"? If he did not, I would think he was referring to the experiences of the innumerable former human births he has taken prior to this birth where he finally attained "moksha" ( the formal definition of liberation or "enlightenment" , the sanskrit word "moksha" means forgiveness or pardon..wherein the soul is pardoned from undergoing the suffering of having to be born as a creature in any level ever again).

2. You repeatedly talk about cosmic conciousness and also repeatedly talk about conciousness being a biological phenomena happenning in the brain. So where does "cosmic" conciousness come into picture then? does the cosmos have a brain? NO. Is any ordinary creature aware/concious of the cosmos that he/she dwells in at all times? YES. So what IS this "cosmic" conciousness that you claim some people can attain, because, you say, their DNA allows it to happen?
My question is, what do you mean by using the term in the first place.

To conlcude, just wanted to point out to you that "enlightenment" is not some fun state of mind to have or a superlatively pleasurable continuous state of being, as seems to be how you interpret it to mean. ( or else, I don't see any plausible reason, as to why, you, being a firm beliver of a single-life-from-birth-to -death theory would continue to have any interest in meditation or eligntement and so forth). An enlightened being has all the problem any ordinary being has. He grows old and dies like everybody else. Only an enlighted being does not suffer from any "diseases" (chronic allergy to something is not a disease or ailment as the Gautam Buddha puts it), or in short an enlightened being is free of all the seven "dukkhas" or sufferings the Gautama Buddha has listed out ( read 'em on the web if you don't know about them).

"Enlightenment&q uot; rather means "moksha" ( a term first known to be used by Gautam Budhha to mean liebration or enlightenment) which I have defined above for you to mean freedom from all suffering, and hence, from the continuous cycle of birth and death (birth and death being the first two sufferings of the seven).

So now, either you will change your belief about reincarnation, rebirth etc., or will change your interests from meditation, attaining enlightenment etc. ( because there is no possible gain for you therein given the definition and the surmise of the description of "enlightenment" or an "enlightened" state of being from a spiritual perspective, you being a believer of the single-life... theory), or will, with very definite malintentions of spreading confusion amidst masses, keep talking about your stupid brain theories and your interest in meditation at the same time.

- A truth lover ( and of course, an Osho fan)
Indrajit

Reply
An Osho Fan: RE:one for Christopher Calder
Email: indrajit.iit@gmail.com
Date: Sep 9, 2007, 16:56

1. my last post was called, "One for Christopher Calder" and don't know why it does not appear on the page.

2. my e-mail id (which also does not appear) is indrajit.iit@gmail.com , in case it disappears from this post too...

3. I forgot to meantion in my last post: Mr. Calder, in addition to the four things in general which I said you have said successfully, all your posts combined, you have evaded answering to a zillion points made by Mr. Thompson and myself and only answered those to which you could have.

-Thanks
Indraji t

Reply
: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Sep 9, 2007, 20:31
For me, there is nothing to say on Mr. Calder’s story about Osho since I had no chance to know Osho personally. Plus Osho is Osho, let him be himself, he did not harm any one except himself if Mr. Calder’s story is true.

However I do not agree with Mr. Calder’s remark on � people who increase their consciousness level become confused and deluded and think it makes them smarter and better than others, but does not. In that sense "enlightenment" can become just another form of self-delusion�???????

I think Mr. Calder meant to say �people who increase their UNconsciousness level become confused and deluded and think it makes them smarter and better than others, but does not. In that sense "enlightenment" can become just another form of self-delusion � This way it sounds more scientific…

Mr. Calder. please experiment with yourself first to have a little consciousness, and then let us know if you become confused and deluded and think it makes you smarter and better than others..

Reply
sahyo: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Sep 9, 2007, 21:14
as long as chirs wants to believe which is imagined, there won't be listening to which is posted which reveals otherwise

Reply
    Jayen: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email:
    Date: Sep 12, 2007, 2:04
    This has been a quite interesting discussion, thanks to Christopher and Anthony, and Indrajit.

    I would like to add a few more things:

    1. Hitler

    Just the other day I read an article by an anti-cult activist who claimed Osho had said that he (Osho) was like Hitler, but without his mistakes, that Hitler and what he had really wanted had been good, and that Hitler �was as moral as Mahatma Gandhi�, �more of a Hindu than Mahatma Gandhi himself�, �a saint.� – all based on this Spiegel interview. Now, this is the relevant section of the actual Hitler interview, as can be verified by viewing the tape:

    Q: HOW WOULD YOU JUDGE HITLER MORALLY AND POLITICALLY?

    A: Morally, he was as moral as Mahatma Gandhi.

    Q: AS MAHATMA GANDHI?

    A: Yes, because I consider both absolutely immoral. In fact, he was more a Hindu than Mahatma Gandhi himself...

    Q: IN WHAT RESPECT?

    A: In his life. In his way of living...

    Q: BECAUSE HE WAS A VEGETARIAN...?

    A: He was a vegetarian...

    Q: BUT HE WAS NOT NONVIOLENT, AS MAHATMA GANDHI WAS.

    A: Mahatma Gandhi was also not nonviolent. Just wait a bit; let me finish with Adolf Hitler. He was a vegetarian. He was an early riser in the morning, going early back to sleep. He remained a bachelor almost his whole life -- only three hours before he died, he married. He was not a drunkard, he was not a smoker. He was a puritan in every possible way, and he lived a life of discipline, just as a saint lives in a monastery.

    You ask me if Gandhi was nonviolent. That was a political strategy -- but he was not nonviolent. He had declared that after India became independent, armies would be dissolved. But when India became independent and he was asked about armies being dissolved, he remained silent. He was really a cunning man. His secretary said that it was his day of silence. (19 July 1985, Spiegel interview)

    To put this into context, here two earlier quotes:

    Just think: if Adolf Hitler had been a cripple or had amoebas or was continuously getting hepatitis, the world would have been saved. In fact, Adolf Hitler was against smoking, against alcohol. He was a pure vegetarian like Mahatma Gandhi. In fact, both men have many things in common. Both believed in going early to bed and both believed in getting up early in the morning. Both believed that vegetarian food is great. Both believed that smoking is bad, alcohol is bad. Both were great saints. The only difference was that Mahatma Gandhi had the Jaina characteristic very much developed in him -- he was only ten percent Hindu, ninety percent Jaina -- so he tortured himself. Adolf Hitler had the Mohammedan characteristic developed in him: he tortured others, he didn't torture himself. But both tortured. Whom they tortured is not of that much significance. They both were enjoying torture. ... (1980, Zen: Zest, Zip, Zap and Zing)

    To torture oneself or to torture others, both are diseases -- the very idea to torture. Somebody is an Adolf Hitler, he tortures others; somebody is a Mahatma Gandhi, he tortures himself. Both are in the same boat -- maybe standing back to back, but standing in the same boat. Adolf Hitler's joy is in torturing others, Mahatma Gandhi's joy is in torturing himself, but both are violent. The logic is the same -- their joy depends on torture. Their direction is different, but the direction is not the question, their mind has the same attitude: torture. You respect a person who tortures himself because you don't understand the logic of it. Adolf Hitler is condemned all over the world and Gandhi is worshipped all over the world, and I am simply puzzled. How is it possible? -- because the logic is the same. (1977, Tao: The Pathless Path)

    In addition, there are of course innumerable times where Osho describes Hitler as a pygmy, as occupying the lowest rank a human being can sink to, etc.

    Misquoting Osho, or quoting him out of context, is one of the favourite and most despicable pastimes of the anti-cultists.

    2. Weaver article: The spigots

    This Weaver text that Christopher keeps referring to and which is available at http://home.att.net/~medi tation/Weaver.html is obviously not reliable. Just one paragraph above the famous spigots, Weaver writes, with seemingly remarkable clarity of memory:

    �Two days later, the Bhagwan and Ma Anand Sheela absconded from the Big Muddy, attempting to flee the country, and leaving their acolytes high and dry. On the same day, the two Prineville BLM chiefs announced their resignations.�

    There is just a little problem … nothing like this happened. Sheela left on her own for Germany, Osho stayed in Oregon and denounced her to the press. Now I am supposed to believe this kind of witness?

    That’s before we come to telling apart, say, an oxygen spigot for a known asthma sufferer from a nitrous oxide spigot … if indeed there were any spigots at all.

    3. Sex with sannyasins

    Indrajit was asking if there was any reference where Osho says he has had sex with 100s of his woman sannyasins. In fact, there is; it is in The Last Testament, Vol. 1, 22 July 1985 pm in Jesus Grove, and goes like this:

    Q: HAVE YOU EVER BEEN CELIBATE?

    A: Right now I am celibate, but if my health gets better I am not going to be celibate. I have never been celibate. I do not do anything against nature. Right now I am celibate not because celibacy has any value, but just because I am sick. I don't have any energy to make love to a woman and do all the gymnastics, no. I have enough energy to talk to my people, to talk to you. If I get healthy again, I promise you, I will not be celibate.

    Q: DON'T PROMISE ME, PROMISE THEM. ALL THESE LADIES ABOUT THE PLACE TELL ME THAT YOU'RE A GREAT LOVER.

    A: I am!

    Q: HOW DO THEY KNOW THAT?

    A: Many of them must have loved me. I must have loved them.

    Q: DOES THAT MEAN YOU'VE HAD SEX WITH THEM?

    A: Certainly. How do you love if you don't have sex with them?

    Q: HOW DO YOU CHOOSE YOUR SEXUAL PARTNERS?

    A: No question, because I don't have any contract, any relationship, anything similar to marriage. No, just for the moment, in the moment.
    Traveling in a train I meet a stranger... I don't ask even the name of the woman, because we may never meet again. What is the point? But if she is willing.... And I am really the Blessed One: I don't know why, but women are always willing. I have never come across a woman who was not willing. If I was not willing, that is another matter -- but if I was willing, then I have never come across a woman in my life who was not willing.
    And there was no question of any promise that, "I will love you forever, forever." There is no problem. It is just a momentous, momentary affair. We share this moment, we enjoy this moment. And perhaps at the next station I will be gone, or she will be gone and we may never see each other again. I have not seen again many women with whom I had a beautiful moment of love.

    But there are many women here in my commune, and that proves a very fundamental thing: that although I have loved so many women they are not jealous of each other.

    I have seen this video on the net somewhere, but it is not on youtube (not yet, I have hopes ...) – however, for a fun video, you could do worse than watch this one:

    http://www.youtube.co m/watch?v=0v3OeszyaxE

    Love, J.


    Reply
      Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: abut calder stuff
      Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
      Date: Sep 12, 2007, 17:37
      Thank you. jayen for your quotes. i have integrated them to my article on Mr. calder. sorry he is not here anymore to answer this discussion.
      regards
      Any hony
      see full article:
      http://www.dyna micbrain.net/christopher- calder-krishna-christ-and -his-lying-or-misinformed -lost-truth

      Reply
        p.r.: RE:abut calder stuff
        Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
        Date: Sep 16, 2007, 12:13

        . will christopher calder christoph schnelle and aliASSES ....

        . petulant priests of arrogance .......................

        . now continue to look for other pulpits ...........

        . to spit their SermonS from ......................... .

        . now that thompson indrajit jayen sahyo and more and more ....

        , are there to ......................... .......................

        Reply
          Eunice wellington: RE:abut calder stuff
          Date: Sep 17, 2007, 19:39

          I would very much like to close this forum debate with a re-writing ofo my last mail to Chris, which was not answered:
          Chris, dear. I am not a blind old woman. But I am not going to "throw the baby with the bath water". J. Krishnamurti was also betrayed by his personal assistant and this assistant also did things in the name of Krishnamurti that to this day, some of the older friends still think it was him who was behind.
          I am well aware of the whole story. As I think was Rajneesh himself. I still remeber when he said back in 1985 that he was not resposable for the crimes, but he was willing to take responsability for not being more concerned about what Sheela was doing. But even that is not the issue. Everyone is ultimately responsible for him/herself. You, me, Rajneesh, the sannyasins.
          The issue here is that this man touched millions of people toward their own awakening, in a way that noone, even Krishnamurti did. Krishnamurti surrounded himself with intelectuals who belived what he said about no need of a master. See where is krishnamurti´s work today...at the back of a library of the very same intelectuals. See where is Rajneesh´s work today... still liberating and touching thousands of people all over the world. His meditations still help people to be free from repressed emotions. To become quieter and silent. And his understanding of the workings of human beings regarding love, intimacy, creativity, sharing and living my own truth, going in, etc are still golden nuggests. Read any book and you will see.
          The fleet of cars, the preety girls... all that is irrelevant. Whoever felt hurt by being associated with him should take responsability for him/herself and the choices they made... Do you remember what it felt like to be blissed out in silence in his presence. That awoke something in you, me and the hundred of thousands of people who sat at his feet. And that is something that can not be debated. He helped us all to find this space of meditation.
          Regarding your exchange with Mr. Thompson, I think he makes a point. There is no need to be violent Chris. He did not threatened you. He just disagreed and presented what I think are valid arguments. Even I am thinking of one myself: Why did bhagwan called for dental sessions if he had the Nitrous Oxide by the side of his bed? he could not turn the faucet on?
          Chris, I have dear memories of our time together... lighten up boy, life is much more rich than just being stuck in resentement... that after all, the only person hurt by it...is you.
          The way out of emotional tension is through greatfulness. And hear this advice of an old lady. Only greatfulness liberates. Your cruzade is a step egainst your own peace of mind. Let them take responsabilities for them selves. Everyone needs to come to his own terms with life.
          You are fifty something now, I presume. Not much time left... just say thank you to the old man and let the others to come to find their own truth.
          Love
          Eunice


          Reply
An Osho Fan: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: indrajit.iit@gmail.com
Date: Sep 23, 2007, 18:38
Sorry about my delay in response to Jayen's post.

First of all thank you Jayen for putting up quotes from Osho which points to the possible fact that he had sex with his sannyasis ( unless he was lying thru his teeth as we all know something Osho was very much capable of).

But what really worries me about the quotes is Osho saying, "Of course (I had sex with them), how else does someone love..."

after all that he has said about love.

( I love my mother, my grandmother (maternal and paternal), my maternal and paternal aunts..doesn't mean I had sex with them..and after all that he has said about love and kinds of love...)

makes me think he went senile during the Last Testament.

But that's defnitely still not proof of Osho's actually having sex with 100s of his sannyasins. Nothing else would be other than 100s of them telling so. But it definitely is a direct quote from Osho about which I had doubts.

Jayen, thanks once again.

Regards
Indraj it
Regards
LoL

Reply
: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Sep 23, 2007, 19:05
Osho said " When one is totally free, then everything is a happening, a leela". It seems to me Osho lived his life as a free man, afraid of nobody's opinion at least. The more I read his books, the more I love him!!!!

Reply
    Anthony Thompson: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: athomson@gmail.com
    Date: Sep 24, 2007, 2:07
    Indrajit. what does it matter weather he had sex with two, ten or a hundre women? What does it matter that he had sex? Does that mean he was not enlightened? He said that to trascend sex does not mean not to have sex, but to go beyond the mechanic, biological impulse. To go beyond the " need" to. I do not "need" to eat ice cream... but I certainly enjoy it when i don it.
    In relation to love and sex. he was speaking to a journalist, tring to provoke a response from him. he saqid anuthing in those interviews to shock these guys. I do not think he had sex with hundred women. Perhaps 40 at the most... then he had diabetes... as you know you can not get it up with this illness.
    love anthony

    Reply
sahyo: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Sep 25, 2007, 4:13
yes osho didn't fear

Reply
Indrajit Paul: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: indrajit.iit@gmail.com
Date: Oct 5, 2007, 13:27
Mr. Thompson,

Sorry once again for my delay in response. I was busy with lots of interviews and their preparations.

It's good that you ask me how it matters if Osho had sex.

Well, to answer to you, being born an Indian I know of several enlightened people (not that people get enlightened in India only ( though I think the no. of them has been predominantly more here), but in India they definitely gain a lot of popularity unlike other places) in India starting from Gautama Buddha (and many others who have been considered as enlightened men in India for ages), and in my knowledge none of them had sex.

The reason for that, in my mind is that having sex is an act of passion ( which is a very bad word to use for what I am trying to communicate)..it Indian terms, sex is dominated by Rajah-guna ( the "activity" mode of nature. nature has three modes as specified in the Bhagwad Gita, the Hindu holy text (which is the sermon on human life and creation by the Lord Krishna to his friend-converted-to-disci ple Arjuna) , satwa, the liberation mode or the "truth" mode, rajas, the binding mode or the activity mode, and tamas, the destroying mode or the heavyness/dullness mode) and in my knowledge the enlightened people participate in only satwik ( dominated by satwa) activity because they have been released from the cycle of karma and they do not participate in activity that generates any karma ( or a spiritual debt arising out of imperfect and thereby incomplete action). And sex being dominated by Rajas generates karma. ( although, it might be possible that you can have sex and still not generate any karma, but I have never heard of it in my 20 years of research on karma and enlightenment or release from it ).

The long and short of it is that all the people I know of who has attained enlightenment has abstained from sex thereafter.

That's why, it matters ( at least to me personally) if Osho had sex or not after his enlightenment ( which he claims to have attained).

However, in my mind, I am sure of the fact that Osho was no exception and believe he was lying about his not being celibate just to provoke a reaction as you said.

Moreover, in Osho's own words, all creatures have sex for the allure of the moment of "oneness" (with divinity..or whatever..creation is one, therefore absolute oneness is one where there is no seperation between the individual and the divine or anything). One who is enlightened is established in that "oneness". A mere act (or for that matter, any action or any kind) does not produce a difference in them. That's why enlightened ones had been known to be established in perfect inaction ( and omni-action (if there is a word like that), meaning they do absolutely nothing and thereby do absolutely everything ( a concept one comes across if he/she is into spiritualism), because that's the nature of creation, consisting of numerous activities, and yet perfectly still ( i understand very difficult ot express or grasp in everyday, "real" world (or material)terminology).

In short, an enlightened person is already enjoying the "enjoyment" part of having sex, all the time.

Going by this, if it can be really proved that Osho was having sex, after having attained his enlightenment, then, to me, with my present knowledge, it would mean he was not enlightened at all.

I am sorry if it hurts the feeling of other people who appreciate Osho's works and words..but this is what I know and what my knowledge means.

Regards
Indraj it


Reply
An Osho Fan: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: indrajit.iit@gmail.com
Date: Oct 5, 2007, 13:40
and one more thing. No one physically "need"s to have sex. You won't die or suffer ill health if you do not have sex( at most you will have nightfalls) .

So essentially the need is of the feeling of bliss, "ananda", or oneness that sex provides.

And as I said, a enlightened person is getting that feeling all the time.

So if he is still doing it, he would be doing it only because he likes the act. But as has been said in the Gita and by the buddha: enlgihtenment is to go beyond all attractions and repulsions, beyond all likes and dislikes.

Given all these things, I simply don't see any reason why an enlightened one would be having sex.

bye
Indrajit

Reply
    Anthony Thompson: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
    Date: Oct 5, 2007, 18:40
    Indrajit. There are several levels to this. The people whom by tradition we think are enlightened, are people who have become more myths than real human beings. So we can not know for sure what they actually did. Actually we do not even know really if enlightenement exist... unless we are enlightened. So for me all the stories, about buddha, raman maharshi, ramakrishna, meher baba, etc, are stories built on myth many times. Like jesus being born out of a virgin mother.
    So, I can not even judge osho enlightenment.

    Sex is a biological need. A need that actually cannot be repressed. Even if you do, it will come out in dreams, as was the case of Gandhi. In the west we have the problem with the celibate priests and sexual abuse, precisely because of this idea that sex is not a need. there is enough scientific research that proves that is just second to eating.
    My understanding of bramacharya is a trascendence from the biological pull, but not a trascendence necesarily from human nature.
    And yes, I think Osho had sex.

    greetings
    Anthon y

    Reply
      Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
      Date: Oct 5, 2007, 18:42
      Indrajit. Regarding your last question, I think an enlightened person would enjoy sex , as much as he would enjoy a sun set, a flower, or a good meal, like raman maharshi
      anthony

      Reply
        Pushpam: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
        Email: Kumar.pushpam23@gmail.com
        Date: Sep 13, 2012, 17:48
        Ha ha ha......anthony sir,is this guy christopher cadler was crazy or idiot or nonsense or baasturd.please tell me what is the source of his cosmic consciousness concept.i have never heard or read about this.is this his self made ideology.osho teaches through his entire life the only technic,how to become wittnessed.but the person cadler only moving around a issue osho is drug addicted or osho had sex affairs with his female disciples.so what, sex is natural phenomenon,become its master not become his slave.thats what the osho teaches us.osho deceives his disciples,how the cadler conclude this.osho is as genius as einestein.basically only two genius born in this era one is einestein and the other is osho.rest all are mediocre.mr cadler if certain genetic code is responsible for enlightment then why buddha,mahavira,kabir, nanak all indian mystics spoke for his whole life.was they deceives people.mr cadler u cannot understand the eastern sprituality.your whole theory of COSMIC CONCIOUSNESS,DNA CODE are absurd.in fact u deceives your self from these baseles theories...mr cadler u r a stupid..u understand just one thing correctly.....the crazy osho lovers...yes we r crazy bcoz love itself crazy.but u cannot understand this because u have said that there is no soul only mind exists

        Reply
An Osho Fan: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: indrajit.iit@gmail.com
Date: Oct 6, 2007, 16:20
Hi Anthony,

Thank you for your response.

Though my views about enjoyment remains different from your's (that is I don't think enlightened people, hoping there really is something like enlightenment, would be enjoying things in the same terms as un-enlightened ones would), but I do agree with most part of your first mail.

And from what I have read about Osho's life ( the part that he used to confine himself in a room most of the time and would eat the exact same meal everyday and do nothing but just sit there(other than giving darshans and discourses) ), it makes me personally feel he was celibate for most part of his life.

Though I would agree that both your's and my view are our own personal speculation, and therefore it is because I would like to verify my own theory of enlightenment that I am so interested in finding out if Osho really had sex as Calder insists.

My Regards
Indrajit

Reply
An Osho Fan: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: indrajit.iit@gmail.com
Date: Oct 6, 2007, 16:24
Hi,

Sorry about missing out on several commas in the last para of my last mail.

And I wanted to say this also, that please do let me know in case you come across any first hand testimony to the topic of our current discussion in your research activity.

:)

Regards
Indraj it

Reply
    Anthony Thompson: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: athomson@gmail.com
    Date: Oct 6, 2007, 22:42
    Indrajit. I can share the information i have and I have collected as far as his sexual activity:
    Greek Seema was his mistress while he was living in bombay. Then came vivek who stayed with him and apparently had sex with him untill 1977. By that time she started moving with other men and having lovers, so probably whatever she had with osho was over. I have no reports from realiable wittnesses appart from that. So how much sex he had ai can not say.
    He did stayed in his room doing nothing most of the time and I do not think he ever had an actual romantic relationship the way we understand it. So, if he did have sex with Vivek was in a differet context from what we think is a boyfriend-girfriend relationship.
    Again, for me having or not sex is not an issue.I understand that as far as Indian conditioning is concerned the views are different. the reason why is not an issue is the same with wealth or money in relation to enlightenment: Poverty is not a sign of spirituallity, neither is celibacy. I can enjoy wealth and that does not mean that i depend on it. So for me the issue is dependence not sex or money.
    regards
    Anthony


    Reply
An Osho Fan: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: indrajit.iit@gmail.com
Date: Oct 9, 2007, 8:20
Hi Anthony,

our differences aside, I WOULD agree to this that the issue is dependence.

:)

Also , Thank you for the info.

Regards
Indraji t


Reply
    Vinay Kumar: RE
    Date: Oct 10, 2007, 19:13
    Hi All
    Find your own way.Trust your self.Guru has his own way.He can show you path,but u can not go his way.Every one has his own individuality,so you have to
    find your own way.Osho never said follow me.He was against any follow system.Every one is unique,that was his teaching.

    Reply
      Vinay Kumar: RE
      Date: Oct 10, 2007, 19:24
      Hi
      Stop discussing osho,why do you interested in osho sexual activities.First of all create interest in your self.
      Why are you investigating so much about it.You got your own consciousness,bet on that.Your all conversation seems silly to me.

      Reply
        Anthony Thompson: RE:RE
        Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
        Date: Oct 10, 2007, 23:25
        I investigate " so much" because when people like Christopher calder come with his allegations i have the information to show that he is lying or wrong.
        As far as sexual activity is concerned... just gossiping nothing else, and proving that osho was not declaring himself celibate.
        The discussion is silly... just entertaining.
        Anthony
        http://www.dynam icbrain.net/christopher-c alder-krishna-christ-and- his-lying-or-misinformed- lost-truth

        Reply
Alok Singk: Alok From Mumbai
Email: alok.singh@lehman.com
Date: Oct 12, 2007, 9:04
Mr. Calder,

I asked you few question to you without contribute any argument in the on going grate debate in the forum.

In your article The Lost Truth you mention that

That days you have with him in Bombay are the heaven days he was giving you all inner experience as free and I think this is the greatest thing because you could finds millions in the crowd who can talk restless about all atman and GOD but not even one from this crowd have this ability to give the experience and this what exactly called the shakti path in INDIA.

My question to you that do you have that ability to give that experience to any buddy else? If yes then in my opinion you have some right to comment on OSHO because you are on the same level where he was if not then forget all his comment because even people become noble prize winner but show some poor behavior in normal life and this is what we call life.

Next one is about that pregnant lady could you please tell me when exactly that happen and had she launched any FIR against him if yes then could you please mention me the police station I would like to investigate in it personally I am in Bombay and have so many contacts to do it.

Regards
Alok


Reply
Daniel: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Oct 14, 2007, 22:07
Osho Rajneesh explained clearly what he meant by meditation: witnessing. Try it. If it helps you on your way, good. Use it. If it doesn't help you, then okay. Forget about it and forget about Osho Rajneesh. But why waste precious time debating over the facts of his life?

Reply
    Anthony Thompson: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
    Date: Oct 16, 2007, 22:08
    For those interested in the updated verion of my article as a response to calder visit
    http://www.dynamic brain.net/christopher-cal der-man-who-lies-about-os ho

    anthony

    Reply
      : RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      Date: Oct 28, 2007, 17:08
      why do you keep pursuing, anthony? :)

      Reply
        Anthony Thompson: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
        Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
        Date: Oct 30, 2007, 17:28
        I keep persuing because I admire Osho and his work. And I do not like to see someone i apreciate and like being treated in a derogatory way. If a lie is repeated long enough it becomes a shared truth. and this is what has happneed with Mr. Calder article. When I first read it about 8 years ago I thought these stories are twisted...but then I did nothing abouit that. Today there are hundreds of webpages quoting calder´s article as an "expert" on Rajneesh. most sannyasins have no information about the subject and issues he writes about. I have devoted a lot of time and energy to my research and I know the facts and the stories.
        >That is why.
        regards
        anthony

        Reply
pooja bhutani: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: diana_crab@yahoo.com
Date: Nov 1, 2007, 20:26
An ode to the master........
chk dis link for his biography........
http:/ /www.otoons.com/osho/inde x.html

Reply
sw. Gagan: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Nov 16, 2007, 13:35
Dear Anthony,

first of all, thanks for your precious article. There was need of such an informative reply to CC's phantasies that, as you say, are often reported as a source of truth.

As far as Osho's sexual activity is concerned, it seems to me that Vivek told at least to two people, Satya Barthi Franklin and Devageet, that Osho never had sex with anybody in his life. And he also asked Satya Barthi (this can be read in her last book on Osho) to spread rumours that, on the contrary, she was having sex with Osho.

Love
Gagan

Reply
    Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
    Date: Nov 18, 2007, 14:48
    Gagan.I want to state that I have no direct knowledge of osho´s sexual activity. All I have is second hand reports. So I have no idea about his sexual life. Those who claim that he had sex with "hundred of women" are misinformed. All I could find are two accounts. Seema and Vivek. The first account is from an early disciple ( from 74),Bhadra, who was a friend of Seema who reported to have had sex with Osho. Now with Vivek there was some other accounts of their being " sort of like girlfriend boyfriend" untill 1977.
    Of course I do not know any of this first hand. So, I do not know. It seems unlikely to me that he was celibate.
    More over, I do not care, it is not an issue to me wther he has sex or not.
    Regards
    Anthony

    Reply
venkatesh: classic case of yoga bhrasta
Email: venkateswar25@rediffmail.com
Date: Dec 11, 2007, 9:18
the kundalini reached ajna. but could not reach the sahasra. he thought he reached the final nirvana. but he was fooled by prakriti. and the kundalini energy was misfired from there right down to the bottom muladhara
he lost it all. he lost all punyam. he has to start it again like viswamitra. he has to start sadhana in next birth again. the difference between kp or sathy sai or mahesh yogi. and rajneesh is that rajneesh lost all power. but others have kept it static and are standing at that level and have not fallen. they are near nirvana. it depends on them. swami sivananda, ramana maharshi shirdi sai, vivekananda came to world after reaching nirvana, they never said that they are enlightened. an enlightened person loses his ego. how can he say that he is enlightened. it is up the people around him to recognise him. kaupeena vanta khalu bhagyavanta.


Reply
    Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:classic case of yoga bhrasta
    Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
    Date: Dec 13, 2007, 1:07
    Babe. you have read way too much Indian literature. I am sure you have no idea what you are talking about... just ald yoguic ideas repeated century after century. belief systems beyond your actual direct experience. i am preety sure you did not meet the people you mention.
    Anthony

    Reply
      Sw. Deva Nedko: RE:classic case of yoga bhrasta
      Date: Dec 13, 2007, 12:53
      anthony,

      2 things:

      1. thank you for you replying so carefully to these idiocies by Mr. Pfuetze (Walter).

      2. about sex & enlightnement:

      a) as far as I have read, Gurdjeff had sex with women; he also did eat meat. Still he's enlightened enough for me ... (meant as "british understatement")

      b) And Osho & sex:
      to me this looks like this question:

      Will a grown man still like to sit in the sandbox and drive about with toy cars in his hands, making car noises and pretending they are real ones?

      Regarding that - I'm a grown man (Sannyasin since '79, and then no child anymore), and for me that would not really a choice - though I guess it could be fun, once, for about 10 seconds ...
      I prefer to drive a real car (or two -- not a the same time, though ...)

      Back to the analogy and Osho, everyone is free (as always) to draw his own conclusions, of course.

      Afterthought:
      You mentioned sex as biological need - that's true, of course; still one has to be careful with this fact, as in man biology and psychology are so intimately intertwined. And especially in our case, living in a state of near chaos - our so-called "normal" state, where everything is topsy-turvy - it is not advisable to draw conclusions too early. Regarding these matters, if I want to know where to look for truth, I trust Osho's insight most, as he has no hidden private agenda and is able to report on what he sees.
      (I'd like to point out that as a longtime Sannyasin I do not believe - and never did - a single word he says - but his words are the most trustful pointers* to the truth I could find.)
      - -
      * Hope that's the right expression, English is not my language, either.



      Reply
        Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:classic case of yoga bhrasta
        Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
        Date: Dec 14, 2007, 1:13
        Nedko.
        For me, being a westerner is not an issue or a proof of anything spiritual if people have sex or not. For me it is as meaningless in spiritual terms as to discuss wether you shave or not.
        I have no direct experience of osho sexual life... he never did any pass on me! so i do not know. he said he had sex... i do not know wether it is true , he was bragging or whatever. I have some testimonies of people who said had sex with him. is it true? I do not know... I was not there. and I do not care.
        All my insistence is that having sex or not, as well as shaving is absolutely unimportant as far as spiritual qualities is concerned.
        My full discussion is on:
        http://www.fillmash. com/christopher-calder-ma n-who-lies-about-osho
        re gards
        anthony

        Reply
          Sw. Deva Nedko: RE:classic case of yoga bhrasta
          Date: Dec 14, 2007, 2:04
          Anthony,

          thanks for your reply.

          And while you bring it up:

          Gurdjeff did shave, while Osho did not!
          I's about time the discussion starts on the spiritual significance of that until now sadly overlooked fact - the connection between shaving and enlightenment!

          And there are myriads of other equally spiritually significant factors - like brushing your teeth, combing your hair - or not, if there is no hair - oh yes, now that's extremely important:

          Baldness and Enlightenment!!

          Can bald men advance spiritually at all? Or is it just a pretension to compensate for the loss of their hair?
          Or - is baldness on the contrary a prerequisite for enlightenment - look at Gurdjeff's _and_ Osho's head?!?
          Endless possibilities open up...!

          Well, I'll do something useful now and go meditate, love to you.




          Reply
            Anthony Thompson: RE:classic case of yoga bhrasta
            Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
            Date: Dec 14, 2007, 18:16
            Nedko. Thank you for bringing up these important issues to my notice... the only thing that i am sure is that an enlightened master can not have a mustache... unless he is bald like gurdjieff... then it is ok. Otherwise you end up looking like a seventies porn actor... if you do not believe me... just look at Andrew cohen!!
            Love to you too
            Anthony

            Reply
              Sw. Deva Nedko: RE:classic case of yoga bhrasta
              Date: Dec 15, 2007, 2:08
              Sorry for replying once more, but you're completely right about Mr. Cohen.
              It's not his fault, of course; as of course now it's too late for him to be a seventies porn actor (and he surely would have been excellent at it), what other career options has he left? Used car salesman - but there's a real competition there, he wouldn't stand a chance; so the guru business is an obvious choice, with no direct contenders per definitionem.
              - Enough of that. Bye, Anthony, and good luck in your life, also spiritually (though that almost sounds like a dirty word these days) ...




              Reply
                Anandakala: RE:classic case of yoga bhrasta
                Email: velvet_face@hotmail.com
                Date: Dec 18, 2007, 5:45
                Anthony Thompson, Indrajit, Eunice - thank you all for your well-considered and intelligent (and loving!) contributions to the above long discussion. Christopher Calder clearly is consumed with anger, resentment and bitterness, and he continually resorts to personally insulting anyone who disagrees with his dubious conclusions, suppositions and ill-referenced "facts".

                Reply
                  Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:classic case of yoga bhrasta
                  Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
                  Date: Dec 18, 2007, 19:17
                  Anandakala.
                  My aim is to put my knowledge and research in the service of truth. If anyone disagrees with osho´s vision and techniques it is absolutely ok with me. But if out of my feeling threatened by that vision I invent or mis-quote him in order to make him appear as an evil character... then I have to stand up and fight back what I consider an agression to someone who Just shared his truth and vision for the well being of humanity.
                  regards
                  Antho ny

                  Reply
Bernhard Smith: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email:
Date: Dec 22, 2007, 19:59
Mr. Thompson,

you talk about truth, but you create nothing but lies. You are a manic liar, as most Osho disciples. You cannot stand any truth because it hurts your childish spiritual egos. Osho used people just for the sake of his own megalomanic and narcistic games.

J. Krishnamurt said the following about Osho in 1985:

"I have received thousands of letters from all over the world asking why I do not speak out in public against this man. But I will not, as it is not my way. The man is a criminal. You have to understand this very clearly. What he is doing to people in the name of spirituality is criminal. One must never give to another human being - and he is a simple human being - your ultimate manifestation of consciousness, which is your ability to make decisions for yourself. You have made a great mistake in giving him that power for twelfe years, but understand this: No man has power exept the power his followers give him. That is why he needs people around him all the time, and the more the better."

Reply
    Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
    Date: Dec 22, 2007, 22:06
    Mr. Smith. I always appreciate a good debate. So, would you please tell me where have I lied? and please supply your proofs otherwise.
    You seem to be associated with Mr. Calder. similar style of just insulting without providing any proof of what you say.
    Krishnamurti never met Osho, just heard from desilusioned disciples. Unless he was omnisient he had no first hand information. Moreover he is intitled to have his opinion... unless you think he was infallible.
    So, I am waiting for what you have to say... and plese include bibliographical references. In case you do not know... it means mentioning from where you got the information.
    regards
    anthony

    Reply
      Bernhard Smith: The decline of Osho and his movement
      Date: Dec 24, 2007, 15:30
      Mr. Thompson,

      you pretend to be scientific (stressing your Ph.D.), but you do not even accept simple facts. That is completely unscientific and it shows that you are not motivated by a search for truth. I do not agree with all and everything which Mr. Calder says, but Mr. Calder has given many facts. Additionally many people have written books, full of facts.

      I will not give my identity, because I do not want to be harassed and get death threats like others who started to tell facts. But I have been in Ponna 1 for long, I was in Oregeon up to the day when Osho left back for India and I visited Ponna 2 after Oshos death. I have enough authentic experience of my own. It would fill books, if I wrote it down. When I went to Poona for the first time, the energy was spontaneous, colourful, playful and ecstatic. The Ashram was an energetic place and the whole thing seemed to be an adventure: A place where love, laughter and liveliness blended with meditation, a place in which narrow-minded nationalism, ideologies and religions dissolved. A hope for humanity. I „took sannyas� and for the years to come, I lived from a suitcase. I lived in various communes and stayed in Poona as long as I was able to manage. Some years later I found myself in Orgeon, USA, in a strange situation which was contradictory to all which was acceptable for me: attempted murder, biological attacks with salmonella, bugging devices installed throughout the commune... I needed many years to understand what had happened. Many of the responsibles disappeared, changed their names or even underwent plastic surgery to hide their identities. During the years to come I spoke with many sannyasins about the strange events that had happend. But most of them either completely rejected any discussion or came up with absurd and even violent arguments. Hiding and covering become a habit in the movement. Obvioulsy there is no interest for truth any more.

      I experienced a great deal of abuse and lies in Poona as well as in Oregon. Abuse of all kind, material, physical and psychological. A long list. I have met Osho as well as J. Krishnamurti. But neither meeting them or a meeting between the two is a required per-condition to be able to ctiticize criminal behaviour. It just needs a simple ethical understanding. Meanwhile many books have been published by sannyasins, scientists, journalists etc. And there are many articles available on the internet for free, covering a wide range of subject related to Osho. The basic content of most publications is the search for an understanding. The search for truth and for what has really happened and for what is happening with the Osho movement today. Naturally most of the publications are subjective, but a great deal of the speculations is created by the fact that there is so much covered. However, it is not a good idea to silence and cover up the things. We do not need new myths. Myth will create great demage and destroy everthing in the long run. In times of the internet this will not work any more. Statements and writings are comparable immediately on the internet today and therefore facts easily can be distinguished from lies. In fact lies never work. Many of the publications come from sannyasins who had direct contact with Osho for a long time. Sannyasins who also knew the realities behind the stage. But still there is so much covered as many of those who were involved seem to fear prosecution. Therefore I think it is important, that those, who were not involved in the „high-ranks�, begin to step forward and talk about their experience. Including those who were raised in sannyas environments and are grown ups by now. This is a well known historical process. And this process has just begun. You Mr. Thompson will get into more and more troubles, in the course of time. Supressing facts never helps.

      Osho often spoke against believes of all kind, however, in practice he massively propagated believe in himself. Surrender is nothing but a form of believe. People, who surrender their lives to another human being, resign themselves to any nonsense. Surrender is completely different from love. Surrender means to give up ones own will and responsibility. Why should a person do that? Because he hopes for something! Surrender means that a person gives control about his life to another person to get something in exchange! It is a kind of business: Desire for a life without problems, for sexual fulfilment, for enlightenment, the status as a teacher, for prosperity, power etc... From such longings dependeny originates. Surrender just creates a completely unreal situation: The "disciple" is dominated and to the "master" the world manifests as an effect of his own "spiritual power ". At the end, on both sides, a complete loss of reality takes place, a mutual illusion. A symbiotic behaviour which, at the most, may create a temporary relieve from responsibility on the side of the disciple. However, the ego does not disappear this way. In fact it cannot, because it is a vital part of our brain and our ability to survive in an ever changing world.

      Osho always was trying to build a myth around him. The events which happend on the ranch in Orgeon, did not happen by accident. They had deep roots. These roots reach back to the very beginning of Oshos appearance in public and they are a integral part of Oshos personality. Some of those who became sannyasins in the early years, when Osho still was know as Acharya Rajneesh, have given detailed reports about the early years. I just would like to recall one story from Poona 1 exemplarily:

      When Swami Vimalkirti by chance received a lethal blow in a karate training and fell into a coma, Osho visited him in the hospital. Quite obviously for publicity reasons because Kirti was a "Prince of Hannover", a relative of the royal family of Great Britain. At the end of his visit he gave instruction that the life-preserving devices should be switched off the next morning around 8:00. In the next morning discourse he was signalled by Vikek that Kirti had died and then spoke in detail about Kirti. He claimed that he just had allowed Kirti to "leave his body� and spoke in lenght about Kirti and the state of consciousness in which Kirti had died. Two doctors who were present when Osho ordered to turn off the life-preserving devices understood this manipulative behaviour and expressed their outrage in public. The doctors were roundly slated by the Ashrams publicity machine immediately.

      This story is symtomatic in many ways. Osho used every opportunity to get attention. It sometimes happened, that celebrities like Diana Ross would visit the ashram. On these occasions Osho focused his whole attention to this people to win them for himself. If these people did not stay or were not convinced, he told all kinds of negative things about the same people whom he had praised the day before. When these people spoke out in public against Osho he came up exactly with the same argument again and again, that these people were just hurt, because he would not give attention to them. Osho often stated that giving no attention to others would be the greatest hit for their egos. But the reality was exactly the other way round. Osho was the one who tried to catch public attention with any possible means. If it did not work, he claimed that the people not being interested in him were idiots. This behaviour is a classic narcistic defense behaviour. Actually it was Osho, to whom attention was extremely important and he used these arguments to repress any critical statement.

      The whole history of mankind and also our history as sannyasins shows that unquestioned obedience does not lead to free man.

      "I am giving you something irrationally, precisely to test whether you are ready to go with me". Osho.

      With such a statement everything can be justified. Anybody who says such a thing, must sign responsible. But Osho never took responsibility.

      Claimi ng enlightenment, Osho always presented himself as an absolute authority and silenced many intelligent people with his demand for surrender. Doubt is important and usefull. Doubt has a vital meaning to our lives as individuals and it is a necessity to be able to distinguish right from wrong. The demand for surrender simply is violent. In Oshos case, it was even more than just the usual master-disciple relationship. It was a spiritual form of totalitarianism. Osho again and again stressed, that to be total was a necessary requirement for a sannyasin and for spiritual growth. In the short term this created and concentrated lots of energy. But in the long run it is a massive exploitation of individuals and their lifes resources. It has happend many times before in history and it is not a new insight. Down the history of mankind, man was exploitable, because of his hope for a better live. The whole history of mankind shows that unquestioned obedience is destructive. Even if the reasons are altruistic. It is nothing but the exploitation of mans longing for another life. In particular the conglomerate of politics with religion / spirituality is a dangerous belnd. Power is abysmal and nobody is immune to its effects.

      Osho several times denied the famous saying of Lord Acton "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely". Why? Because he himself extensively played with power! However, experience tells, that Lord Actons insight is absolutely right. When I came back from Orgeon, I was happy to live in a constitutional state again. In social systems where power is under the rule of law, the megalomania of individuals is controlled. This control mechanisms have evolved in time through centuries of bloody experience. However, in subcultural groups this often is ignored. The control mechanisms are not taken care of or eliminated even willingly. In subcultural groups the use of power often is justified morally while at the same time the destrucutive forces of power are not taken in consideration at all. At a social level unquestioned obedience leads to fascism and the loss of the civil rights. Missing separation of political and religious power, leads to violations of basic human rights. It is always the same disaster. A clan gains absolute power and uses it.

      Osho was an elaborate reader. But to many sannyasins, the sources which Osho used for his discourses, seem to be a mystery. It is obvious that Osho took a lot from others, without mentioning where he took it from. A blend of religion, philosophy, literature and politics which he interpreted and altered freely, explaining all the insights as they were from his own origin. Osho simply used everything which was of any use to him. Osho helped himseft from history like from a supermarket. In a way, - at least after the death of an author -, all knowledge belongs to the memory of mankind and not to anybody personally. "Sampling" has become part of our modern internet culture. Everbody does it, some way or the other, because this it how our mind works. However, to take from others and put a trade mark on it, is unethical. And that’s exactly what is happening in Poona today.

      Osho rejected philosophy ("10,000 years of philosophy and no result"), but nevertheless, he exactly studied his enemies and their minds. And he experimented with everything which seemed promissing to him. And he did not flinch at all even from fascistic methods and ideas.

      Some examples:

      � Sterilisations: approx. 40% of the sannyasins were sterilised in the end of the 70s, also some girls who were just 14 years old.

      � The „New Man�: an idea which originated in the 19th century and massively influenced the 20th century with catastrophic results. Form Nietzsche to Hitler and Stalin, Mao and Phol Pot.

      � Oshos ideas about bioengineering, biological breeding and selection.

      � Oshos concept of "Objective Art ". Of course there is no "objective art�. Such a concept merely implies that somebody would like to make his own subjective views an abolute criterion.

      � Oshos politics of confrontation. It made no difference to him what the press would write about him. His central issue was to be in the public and in the minds of people.

      � Osho as a central figure and his demand for surrender.

      � Oshos view and use of power.

      � Oshos strange and esoteric interpretations about the role of Hitler in history.

      Doesn’t all that sound familiar to you?

      In "Glimpses of a Golden Childhood" (dictated under laughing gas influence) he describes in detail, how he fooled people with all kind of esoteric nonsense. Once a boy even drowned and died, when Osho seduced him to jump into the whirlpool of a river. Later he continued the same game, but in bigger proportions.

      Many sannyasins may remember all the esoteric and manipulative prophecies of Osho: Two thirds of mankind would die of AIDS. During a nuclear war the whole world would be destroyed, only sannyasins would survive. Earthquakes would destroy California etc. On some occasion he declared 21 sanyassins "enlightened", a political manoeuvre to stop Sheelas influence. Nobody of Sheelas gang was on the list. However, Shiva, whom he had insulted shortly before, because he had left the ranch, was on the „list� of the elightened ones. It was all such a nonsense: Nobody can declare somebody else "enlightened".

      Osho often spoke about esoteric things, basically to control situations, to commit people to himself, to entertain them or to experiment with them. I don’t have the time to list all that nonsense in detail, but it is obvious, that behind all this stories there is a behaviour which completely ignores all ethical values. Osho simply used the faith and the love of his disciples to control them.

      During an interview, shortly before the end of the ranch, Osho condemned Nostradamus and stated, that people who would believe in such nonsens would be silly. I agree. But how to name Oshos prophecies then? Esoteric politics? Whenever he wanted to keep or bind people, he extensively used esoterics. However, to himself he thought that most of these things were ridiculous. Esoterics was just a subtle means of control to him. Not at all better, than the nonsense which is tought to believers in the traditional religions.

      Deeksha who lived in hiding for years, told Satya Bharti that Osho sat in his room, swallowed huge amounts of Valium (according to Sheela daily 60 mg. 10 mg is a normal dose) and other drugs and then talked about how the world would be at his feet soon. The ranch in Oregon was not about meditation, therapy and all the other "nice" things which were important in Poona. Those who did not understand this, were pushed aside directly and on instruction by Osho. Osho even required that sannyasins had to get permission to leave the ranch. He asked Sheela to spy out on his own disciples because he wanted control of the community. Of course he did not want Sheela to spy on him too. But why did Sheela do that? Sheela has given good reason to Satya Bharti: She wanted to protect herself because she noticed that all criminal acts would fall back on her if something came to light. There are many recordings of the daily meetings of Sheela with Oshos. If theses tapes will be released someday, I suppose a kind of mutual manipulation will become visible.

      Osho was very conscious about the people and the methods he choose. Sheela was an instrument to him and a victim in the end. Even today Sheela can not see what happened to her and what happened to others through her. Her interviews on YouTube show that things are dawning to her, however, she still is split, a complete negation of her own responsibility on the one side and a absurd dependency on Osho on the other side. She is not able to free herself from the bondage. Even today she is not able to simply and honestly tell the truth, because it is very very hard for her to see and accept the consequences of what she has done. To herself and to others.

      It is unbelievable how man is able to hide facts, even to himself, if he does not want to see the truth (it all reminds me somehow of the behaviour of Nazis in the Nuernberg trial). You Mr. Thompson are doing the same thing. You are not honest to yourself and in this way you are misguiding others.

      Bernhard




      Reply
        anthony Thompson PH. D.: RE:The decline of Osho and his movement
        Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
        Date: Dec 24, 2007, 17:53
        Dear Mr... Bernhard, whatever. Thank you for your long answer. I appreciate that.
        Now your points.
        First I assume your are not threatening me when you say i will �get more and more into trouble� for what I have written.
        You spoke of ethics in relation to Osho, when he himself said that his behaviour was not ruled by any kind of ethics, but whatever he felt like doing, moment to moment. �Ritght or wrong I have lived my way� (The rajneesh bible). He considered ethics and values simply a way to hide behind some stablished, socially agreed, way of doing things, instead of realizing that everybody is responsible for his/her choices.

        Kirti did not die by �a lethal blow in a karate training�, but in the warm up exercises previous to the samurai morning training. If you were there you should have known this. Wether osho went to see him because he was the prince of hannover, is your opinion. The rest is just supossition on your part.



        You say �Osho used every opportunity to get attention. It sometimes happened, that celebrities like Diana Ross would visit the ashram. On these occasions Osho focused his whole attention to this people to win them for himself.� This is just imnagination on your part. Please read the darshan diary with the interview. She was with Werner Erhard. Osho hardly payed any attention to her. Just asked her if she had sometyhing to say and she said no, and that was it. If this you call �whole attention�, I do not know what it would be not to pay attention. The rest of the paragraph is just your opinion.

        Osho said he was not teaching anyone to depend on him. He insistently said that everyone was responsible for himself. If people wanted to go with him in an irrational way it was their choice. No one was forced to do anything.

        He stressed surrender in poona one and then doubt in the rach period. Remember? You were there. Please read the discourses of that time.

        Osho read extensivly. This is no secret. He himsef said many times that he had read perhaps more than anybody else. He said to the first westeners like John bell or paul Lowe: I have read your authors , now I understand your minds. Now I am ready to work with you� ( Teertha, sannyas magazine, 1976)
        He also said.� What I am saying is not new. I keep on reading day after day to find new ways to convey the same thing� ( Osho, sannyas magazine , 1978)

        Regarding your next paragraph. Osho recommended sterelization to many women. But it was up to them to do it. Osho told swiss bhadra, aunt of litte siddhartha, to get sterilized when she was around 18, and she said no I will not do that, and osho said Ok. Now she is a mother of two kids. So, he shared his understanding what people did was their sole rewsponsability and choice. He said something that is no secret to anyone: kids area tremendus responsability and they dem,and attentin and care.It is not easy to be a spiritual seeker and a mother. Ask any mother about that.
        In the rest of the paragraph you metion different things that you regard as fascist. The concept of new man is bassically marxist. Objective art is an idea of gurdjieff.
        Osho said he loved to shock people and get attention. �Bad publicity is better that no publicity� ( the rajneesh bible). You are not discovering the wheel here, all this he was upfront and honest about.
        In relation to the enlightebment story, he himself said it was all a joke, No one can declare anbody enlightened were his exact words. You were there, you do not remember? The rest is your own opinion and interpretation.
        The rest is your supposition. Sheela sent the commune to be bugged because she did not trust what the sannyasins were saying about her, she bugged the room of osho to see what he was speaking with his personal stuff. Whatever sheela recorded was of no use whatsoever to incriminate Osho in anything, These tapes were in possetion of the FBI and they could not find anything. Other wise he will still be serving time in USA. And Sheela would have used these tapes to prove her point. None of these happenned. In relation to Deeksha. The quote you gave me from krishnamurti came from her. It was what he told her. Deeksha scaped because of her problems with Sheela, not Osho, then she was persecutted by Sheela´s people not , not Osho´s.

        Your last opinion about Sheela, I agree, except on the part that she was a victim. She did what She thought was the best to protect Osho, without consulting him about that. And that was her crime, she went criminal hurting people whom Osho loved dearly.

        Finally MR. Bernstein, I have no idea who you are, and from where you got the information you say you have: Anyone can say � I was there�. All you have said is available in books and internet. I doubt you were in all the places you mention: Osho´s room, sheela´s mind, vimalkirti´s death bed, etc.
        In fact, I have no proof that you are not MR. Calder.
        But overall, you have not proved where have I lied. You have just showed where you disagree with Osho´s vision and way and certainly that is your prerrogative. But a different matter altogether is to say I lie or misguide people. Iam just a researcher who interviews people... a lot of people. Who have a different opinion, people who were very close to Osho, people who had direct access to the same stories you have got somewhere.
        Cheers

        Ant hony Thompson Ph. D. Sorry to use it, but I have earned the right to pout it behind my name.
        Regards








        Reply
          Anthony Thompson: RE:The decline of Osho and his movement
          Date: Dec 24, 2007, 22:50
          Sorry for all the spelling mistakes. I should get and english spell check for my computer soon
          regards
          anthony
          http://www.fillm ash.com/christopher-calde r-man-who-lies-about-osho

          Reply
            Bernhard Smith: RE:The decline of Osho and his movement
            Date: Dec 25, 2007, 15:43
            Mr. Thompson,

            First of all: Please be ensured that my statement about you getting "more and more into trouble" certainly (!) was not in any way meant violently. It was due to our discussion and your logic. I will not have the time to responde to all of your arguments. But I am shure, that anyone who reads this with a unconditioned mind will see that there are so many strange things underlying your arguments that they will start questioning.

            Also be ensured that I am not Mr. Calder. Mr. Calder will just laugh about this idea. I did not even grow up in an english spoken country, that's also why I hope you may forgive my poor english grammer. It seems that you cannot imagine, that others also have come to clues similar to those of Christopher Calder.

            Ethics: Ethics is not such a small thing as you or Osho put it. And surrender is the oposite of being "responsible for his/her choices". Oshos definition or downplaying of ethics is exactly the point we discuss here. This is what makes our discussion so arduous. You and many others seem to have lost even the most basic feeling for human understanding, justifying even criminal acts.

            "Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law."

            Kant.

            Ka nts categorical imperative is the general ethical basic norm of all western, secular societies. Every modern legal framework is based upon it. Up to the human rights. And Kants insight is valid for to all reason-gifted beings (therefore also to Osho, you and me).

            I will try to explain this by giving some examples:

            Those who participated in the commune in Oregon between 1981 and 1985 will remember well that Sheela one day began to collect homeless from the streets of Oregon and the neighbouring states. Sheela promised a better life and a warm winter to them. After some weeks some thousand homeless were on the ranch, among them many blacks. For some time there were twice as many homeless on the ranch than sannyasins. Alcohol, fights and theft suddenly were on the daily agenda. To the outside world the whole undertaking was sold by Sheela as social action under the nice name "Share a Home". But in fact, something completely different was happening. It was about getting a political majority in the local elections in Wasco county. It was about to win political influence.

            During the coming weeks Sheela tried to convince the newcomers in many public meetings to vote for "us". It was completely crazy. Certainly the plans did not work, because the authorities would not issue polling cards to to the "immigrants" for the local elections. As a result Sheela and her assistants put strong tranquilizers into the drinks of the homeless and send them out by bus to the streets again (only later I found out that the homeless were fed separately from the rest of us, because they were sedated with drugs all the time).

            Now, at the begining of winter, the streets of Portland suddenly were filed with homeless who did not know where to go or where to sleep. After Sheela had left the ranch, Arup (Garimo), who is well know my many sannyasins, tearfully told in a public meeting that during this evacuation she was asked by one of the homeless for warm clothes because he froze. She refused it to him and put him out on the streets with the others in the cold prewinter's days. I have to mention here that I admire Arups public statement very much, because it shows the insight and guts I would like from you and others.

            Missing empathy is a unequivocal sign for the fact that something goes wrong. Cruel behaviour like this originates easily when one is in control of existential situations. Many authors and scientists have written about this subject and I will not go into details. But I well remember a sentence by J. Fest, a well known german historian, who has written many books about the Nazi characters: "The Nazis were not condemned in the Nuernberg trial because they were stupid, but because of missing compassion". An obvious symptom is a narzistic self-confidence, in which the feeling for human strength and human values is lost and a "special" ego is formed.

            The time between the escape of Sheela and Oshos takeoff from the USA was an important lesson to me! I had rationalised many things to myself (like you Mr. Thompson). Because of my love for Osho, because of surrender and because I simply could not cope with the fact that around Osho, who had spoken so much of freedom and individuality, suddenly a religion called "Rajneeshismus" originated, "worship" in "temples" took place, paramilitary groups with colts and machine guns walked around. During the "Share a Home" program massive doubts came to me for the first time. Obviously not only to me: around this time, many well known disciples left in conflict and contradiction: Teertha, Somendra, Rajen, Amithab, Satja Bharti, Poonam, Shiva, Deeksha, Laxmi just to name a few.

            The "Share a Home" program was completely unethical and cynical. From this time on I started reading the Oregonian, additionally to the propaganda news of the "Rajneesh Times". It was not an easy thing to find a real perspective in this closed world. Why had Bhagwan equipped somebody like Sheela, a power-mad housewife, with absolute power? Because he knew her from childhood? Because she was easy to control? Because she was practical and power minded?

            After Sheela had left the ranch, a "revolution" broke out. At times there was even no or very poor food because nobody appeared for work. For weeks, groups sat together everywhere, discussing. Osho had problems to keep the commune going. The whole truth came up. Everybody had his own story to tell. All the lies, the dirty tricks, the chicaneries, the whole sadism, all the Yes-Saying in the name of "surrender". Who, where, when, with whom and why had violated whom and had spied on whom etc. Tears. Anger. The stories I have heard then, would fill a book alone. People were mobbed extremely. There were so-called "shit lists� of people and "hit lists" and strategies to silence people who were supposed, they could leave the ranch and talk. In the course of time, more and more came up: biological attacks with salmonella, underground escape routes and bunkers in which CIA manuals about guerrilla warfare tactics, instructions were found for the construction of bombs, poison murder and brainwashing; bugging devices installed throughout the commune, 300 firearms, material for bombs, a lab with viruses and mice, AIDS contaminated blood... murder attempts on sannyasins and outsiders, weird lies of all kind. Swimming in the Patanjali lake prohibited, because the fish of the lake died. Somebody had unloaded poison in huge quantities... When in a meeting, after Osho had left the USA, it was explained, that there were gold mines on the ranch (to keep the folks on the ranch), I left. This was all but a ridiculous farce.

            It is obvious that these events are a wound for many sannyasins. One sannyasin, confronted with Calders article, even claimed, that Calder would not even exist at all and it was all made up by him because he was rejected by the great enlightened ones of the 20th century. Similar to you claiming I was Mr. Calder or steadily questioning my experience.

            During the developement of Rajneeshpuram in Orgeon I lived in the „Rajneeshstadt� commune for about a year. The „Rajneeshstadt� at that time was the biggest living group of sannyasins in Germany, sited in a huge castle. Like Rajneeshpuram, it was a bottomless pit financially. As in Orgeon, the leader (Siddhartha, a mini guru of his own) was hardly to be questioned and the methods of building up and keeping such a place were quite dubious and dilettante. Siddharta was an ex-artist who was one of the early German disciples of Osho. His „inner circle� of followers were mostly women, who were jealously around him and some handymen who were mostly uneducated. Additonally there was a constant battle between Siddharta, and his wife and his children, who could not cope with the whole setting. There were long working shifts, six or seven days a week. Members of the commune were put under psychological pressure if they became exhausted or if they had other problems with the strange regime. To become ill, was interpreted as "negativity". One was not surrendered enough. Actually most of those who were put into the bedroom for the ill, were just exhausted of too much work. When Siddharta and his company started to open private letters to control members of the commune, I left, together with my girl friend. Not because I had something to hide, but as a matter of principle. I explained myself in a final meeting and was put under heavy pressure when 6 men harshly argued against our decission. But we left, sad and exhausted. Later I found out that letters were also censored in other communes and centers and of course also on the ranch in Rajneeshpuram. Today Siddharta presents himself as a victim of Sheela, but in fact he had played the same game. What I criticize today is not only what happend many years ago. What I criticize is the dishonest and fraudulent misrepresentation of the things that happened. This is completely wrong, it is manipulative and misguiding and it implies the complete decline of the Osho movement. This basically is the reason why I take the time to write this down. The future should not be based on lies. It is criminal to lead people on tracks, which can destroy their lifes. Telling the truth inevitably means to loose friends who do not like to be disturbed in their dreams. But I rather live with the truth, than with the lies of those who I love.

            In Oshos "caravan" extremely dubious things have happened, up to attempted murder. There are dozens of court judgments from which the facts can be derived clearly by anybody who wants to take notice of them. Sannyasins have to come up to the fact that the „New Man� was quite an barrel burst (as always in history). It is a sign of maturity to recognise one’s own ignorance and to admit it. And of course the question of responsibility is relevant! Particularily in an environment, where surrender or unconditional following is demanded. Osho pretended to not have known about all these events. But this is a lie which can be prooved a hundred times! Sheela spent every day approx. 3 hours with Osho in conversation. Osho instructed Sheela in detail. This is prooven by many sannyasins, also by Sheela. It also were extremely unlikely that Osho, who had looked after all activities in Poona and was probably better informed like no other about religion and its "side effects", knew nothing. And if he had not known, he had choosen absolutely wrong people for his "work". However, this was definitely not the case! Osho has choosen Sheela very consciously and has instructed her in detail. There is lots of evidence. Even public statements of Osho himself proove this fact.

            A few more examples: When Osho had to swear an oath at the local authorities because of immigration problems, he swor on the "Rajneesh-Bible" ;. He described Rajneeshism as a religion and himself as the leader of that religion. The "Rajneesh-Bible" ; was printed and distributed shortly before that event and everybody should own a copy of the book! The whole thing certainly was a fake to get the status as religious leader for Osho and therefore granted immigration. Later he said, that all of this had just been an invention of Sheela. The "Rajneesh-Bible" ; was burnt publicly in a big fire (a fascistic ritual). In fact he did not only dictate the contents of the book, he even had an influence on the graphic design of the book and the clothes Sheela wore as pontifex.

            Another example: Osho regularly went on excursions by car. On this excursions he regularly passed by Antelope, the next little village, inhabited mostly by poor retired people. Osho exactly new what happened there. This little village had become a major argument in public and in the press, because the „Rajneeshes� were trying to get the political majority of the community for legal reasons. While driving through Antelope Osho even instructed Sheela which houses should be bought and how she should manage to make the people sell their houses. The pensioners, some of them living on social benefits, were given a hard time by harassing them 24 hours with cameras and with party noise until they gave up and sold their houses. In the course of events Antelope was even named to „Rajneesh� and new road signs were errected. Later, when Sheela had left the ranch, Osho stated, that all of this was just Sheelas idea and ordered to rename the village back to "Antelope".

            Certainly Osho was also well informed about the "Share a Home" programm and the many homeless standing on the side of the street during daily "Drive By".

            It is absolutely naive, to think that Osho would not have been the head of all of this. This were his directives and disagreement was not an option. Those who did not co-operate were exchanged immediately by him or by Sheela.

            After Osho had left the ranch it was revealed that the ranch had accumulated high debt and massively had not paid open bills. An old pattern, which repeated since the early days in India. However, these debts were not, as Osho claimed because of money Sheela had stolen when she fled the ranch. These debts mainly existed because Osho wanted new cars and watches constantly. When Sheela tried to explain the financial situation to him, he repeatedly announced „to leave his body� if she could not manage (a strategy of Gandhi). By the way: The watches were not made of glass, as Osho claimed later. The US authorities confiscated watches with a value of more than one million dollars when the Lear Jet, with Osho on board was intercepted, on it’s flight to the Bahamas, trying to flee the country (the Bahamas are next beyond USA borders. However, they underestimated the American radar which had observed the flight). These watches were extremely expensive unique pieces, among them, Cartier, 150.000$ per piece. When after his arrest Osho was asked during an interview in "90 Minutes" (a USA-wide tv broadcast) about his flight, he lied so drastically, that it was simply absurd. He said he wanted to go on holidays and did not know where the trip went etc... complete nonsens! Osho was a "spiritual mafioso" who presented himself as "Good-Guy" but lied like a trooper to protect himself. All of this is not the imagination of some disillusioned disciples. There are hundreds of documents and absolutely authentic statements which are consitent and correspond exactly with the events. Those who negate all of this are just liers protecting their „spiritual egos� or their involvement in criminal acts. They are jointly responsible.

            Now having commented on ethics I will try to repond to some of your statments:

            Thompson: "Kirti did not die by �a lethal blow in a karate training�, but in the warm up exercises previous to the samurai morning training. If you were there you should have known this. Wether osho went to see him because he was the prince of hannover, is your opinion. The rest is just supossition on your part."

            The point here was not the difference between the formulation "karate training" or "samurai morning training", but a completely unethical and symptomatic behaviour of Osho which was discussed even in the indian public.

            -

            Thompson: "Osho said he was not teaching anyone to depend on him. He insistently said that everyone was responsible for himself. If people wanted to go with him in an irrational way it was their choice. No one was forced to do anything."

            Osho said one thing, but did the other. Constantly. Osho has used more methods to make people depend on him than any other guru in history. A genius in his way. That's also why you and so many others have lost any good reason as it seems.

            -

            Thompson: "He stressed surrender in poona one and then doubt in the rach period. Remember? You were there. Please read the discourses of that time."

            Osho did stress surrender in Oregon! Only AFTER Sheela had left he ranch, he changed that and even dropped red and the mala. But he never took any responsibility. By the way: Were YOU there?.

            -

            Mr. Thompson you are trying to avoid again and again the central implications of what I am saying. For example the idea of the "New Man" is a philosophical idea from the 19th century, used by various dictators like Hitler, Stalin or Phol Pot. Fascism and communism have lots in common due to their methods and their reasoning. My point was that Osho used all kinds of concepts even highly dangerous or unethical ones to get attention and power. But the goal never justifies the methods!


            Bernhard Smith


            Reply
              moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com: RE:The decline of Osho and his movement
              Date: Dec 25, 2007, 18:02

              .'bernard smith' ....

              .says that that he is not 'calder'

              .schnelle perhaps ....

              .none of you were 'there'

              .you are certainly 'here'

              .another pontificating priest .....

              .laughable ....

              .lost ....

              .

              Reply
                Anthony Thompson: RE:The decline of Osho and his movement
                Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
                Date: Dec 25, 2007, 23:11

                Mr. Berenstein
                After reading your answer I have to say the same thing I said before: prove where I have lied. You have not delivered a single proof of what you say. The information you have is not yours. Admit it!. The information I have is not mine either. I am ajust an interviwer.
                You say you lived at the ranch and then you say you lived in siddhartha´s german commune. What is the thing?
                Your supossitions are opinions of a lot of people. Which is basically: Osho must have known all that Sheela did: he talked to her every day, she must have done what he told her. I have interviwed people who slept next door to him in his house at the ranch and they have a very different story.
                The fact is you yourself do not know that... do you? You assume that is what happenned. That is YOUR understanding of the story. That is all. And that is ok... it is your right to see things that way. My point is if you say I lie you need to produce a reliable eye witness to what you say. Otherwise is just another guy developing his own theory of what happened.
                Now the points:
                I agree on your vision about the share a home project. But you try to put as f it was Osho´s idea.

                The disciples you mention left at different times and for different reazons. And this for you might be a minor problem, but the fact is that it proves that you gather information without bothering to check wether it is true or not.
                Somendra left in 82 way before the share a home project. He left, as he told me directly, because he felt he wanted to do his thing and refused to put Osho´s picture on the cover of the Alchemy center newsletter.
                Teertha left at the end of 86 because of his wanting to do his thing and did not want to be ordered how to do groups or where to do them, and certainly not have to give the money to the neo-sannyas foundation. Deeksha left earlier in 82 because of a dispute with Sheela. Shiva left... well I do not have to tell you the story... you read the book. Amitabh left at the same time as teertha. Bharti left... well you also read the book. Laxmi actually never left. Just stopped being his secretary. She was a sannyasin to the moment of her death.

                All the crimes commited by Sheela were exposed by Osho publicly.
                You seem to assume that Osho was behind Sheela´s crimes and again this is just your opinion, there is no proof of that whatsoever. He exposed her, If he had not spoken and called the FBI, none of this would have been known.


                Moreover, if the FBI, or any agency of the state department would have had a single proof against Osho they would have nailed him with pleasure.
                So, either the biggest federal intellingence investigation agency in the world was fooled by this Indian guru... or they just had nothing to incriminate him.
                You say you read the Oregonian. Then you must have read the series of articles they wrote about the whole thing. In those articles you can see hundreds of lies and misinterpretations of facts and stories... but that is ok with you.
                There are several books of the time which do not represent your understanding of the story. Did you read them?... were they written by blind fanatics?... or simply by people who have a different understanding of the same thing.

                Again, mr Bernstein, I do not have anything against your aopinions... but just say that it is what they are... and please do not call me a liar if you do not supply any new idea to the game.

                Regards
                Anthony


                Reply
Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
Date: Dec 26, 2007, 0:09
Well, to add some last point to Mr. Bernstein. I respect your right to see events, Osho, the movement as you like... I have my own vision too. Not because I am misinformed or in denial. All the stories you tell I have heard, but because about the FACTS I have a very different information.
Finally, The man was himself, as himself as anyone can dare to be.
People were attracted to Osho precisely because he was an iconoclast. Anyone who wanted to study with a more straight-laced by-the-book Hindu guru was free to do so. And still is.

If you go to a freak show and sit in the front row you shouldn't complain when the geek spits blood on you after biting the head off a chicken. That's what you paid to see.
In the same way, when you travel with someone on the edge of the sword, defiying tradition, morality, belief systems and religios institutions... you can not expect that trouble will not arise around it. Power games, jelousy, money problems, will arise as they will in any institution. Even around Krishnamusrti... remeber the stoty of his assistant.
But to say that Osho wanted to get his way without considering anyone, even his own people, is just an idea in your head. there is no evidence anywhere for that. Except for those who want to see things that way.
regards
Anthony


Reply
    Bernhard Smith: The decline of Osho and his movement
    Date: Dec 26, 2007, 10:59
    Dear Mr. Thompson,

    you are an intelligent man. But you defend something which is not defendable, except by somebody who lives with a life-long illusion, similar to fanatics or fundametalists. You are not naiv. Therefore I call it a lie. You have a big blind spot. This blind spot is your image of Osho / Bhagwan / Acharya Rajneesh. You can not accept even one scratch on the image of Osho, because it means that the man was not a perfect super human being or a master of masters and so on... you rationalize, but you can not admit the most obvious fact and therefore you have to build lies upon lies. This it tragical. Your own individual tragic, but also the tragic of Osho and the whole movment. An incredible waste of intelligence and energy. Everybody who has a simple feeling for truth can read between the lines. Lies always have a motiv, a direction, a certain impetus. Everybody who hears about Osho today finds out sooner or later that Osho is Bhagwan. I have experienced this irritation several times with people who discovered Osho, and all the questions followed unavoidably... it is absolutely destructive in the long run to hide the facts. Yes, the picture is complex. I often defended Osho like you. But to whitewash the man is a great mistake. It destroys all and everything. I agree with you, that many who met Osho did so also because he was an iconoclast. Me to. But Osho ended up in a net of lies, similar to those he was attacking and criticizing. What I am trying to discribe here is this process of corruption. And it is not even something very new in the history of mankind. It has happend before, again and again. But even today disciples of Osho think themselfs beyond all history, the chosen few... Osho transmitted his super narcism to many and created a bunch of narcistic crackpots. That's one of the many sad facts. Many sannyasins have aged, but not grown up at all. Just read comments on this web site and on other webs sites. One wonders how some of these people are able to make a living? Osho has spoken so much about freedom, consciousness, love, compassion... however, the reality was completely different. What he said and what has really happened is a contradiction. Someone who criticizes others as harshly as Osho did, must stand the criteria which he applies to others. Why did Osho change his name a second time? A name change always signifies a discontinuation with the past. But a name change is not enough to get rid of the past. If Osho (like Krishnamurti) had ended the game and told the whole truth, he realy might have become one the greatest mediums of truth. But the sad fact is, that Osho was a drug addict in the end who spoiled all his gifts for his own pleasures and his narcism. He tried to hide and cover everything. Even calling the FBI and accusing Sheela was just a intelligent way to protect himself. Sheela was a doer AND a victim (remember Osho often mentioned Dostojewski. There you find the scripts for this movie). Oshos intelligence is far beyond Sheelas. Osho could not admit the truth because only the image of a perfect master may justify "surrender" and all the rest. Enlightenment is a myth, which Osho used extensively. The image of enlightenment may help people to get on the way, to open from old patterns and situation. However to use enlightenment as a justification of behaviour which otherwise nobody would accept, is only destructive. Some people have special talents, for example, special artistic, intellectual or also psychological abilities. These talents are presents of nature. In rare cases these talents fall on fertile ground because the conditions or the time is ripe. Then a Mozart, a Leonardi There Vinci, a Buddha or even a Hitler appears. In Oshos case it was an unusual ability of visionary speech and hypnotic guidance. But such a phenomenon does not mean that somebody is in any way supernatural. The essence is not Oshos words, but his actions, his real life.

    Mr. Thompson, I admit that you take your time and discuss. But I have to say that it seems your stile of argument is influenced by Osho. You use every little linguistic incompleteness to discredit my experience and call it a supposition. For example I have not said that I was living on the ranch. As you may have figured out, I am not American. For legal and immigration reasons I was partaking in the tree month work programms or staying for regular events. I did so for a couple of times (spending a lot of money) and I lived in various places during this time, as well as in Siddhartas commune. This was a usual setting for many sannyasins at that time. You ask me for proofs and facts constantly, while you put yourself in the role of an "journalist" interviewing people, not giving personal details about yourself. It seems you have only read or heard from others. Have you ever been in Poona or in Oregeon? Or do you deny your involvement to protect yourself from prosecution? You seem to be involved somehow, at least emotinally. I was involved to a degree which many many were. I was not in the high-ranks. I was just a simple sannyasin. But I have come to a new understanding of the phenonema during the years. Certainly I have read books like you. I read books to understand the strange events which I had experienced myself. There are so many things covered and covered again. Untill today. The "Club Med" in Poona today, the edited discourses of Osho, the web sites, its financial and legal behaviour etc. covering covering and covering, until today. But this will not work in the long run. That's why I say it is tragic and destructive. I started reading, to get an impression from as many perspectives as possible: „My Diamond Day with Osho� by Ma Prem Shunyo, the books by Juliet Forman (Maneesha) as well as „Bhagwan, the God that Failed� by Hugh Milne (Sw. Shivamurt, Oshos bodyguard for many years) and „The Promise of Paradise� by Satya Bharti Franklin, (a writer and editor of many books of Osho), Sam’s „The Life of Osho� and many other publications. Unfortunately the books by Hugh Milne and Satya Bharti Franklin are out of print, but they are available second hand via the internet. Sam’s „The Life of Osho� is availabe freely on PDF. Subsequently I also started reading scientific books, written by outsiders covering the subject. Certainly I may have forgotten details or mix up things. I do not claim to be perfect. In addition nobody of us was present at all of the event that happened. Therefore I agree there is no absolute truth. It is more like in Kurosawas "Rashomon". You take three sannyasins and you have three views. But after all, there is a common feeling for humaneness and for truth. And in the context of what Osho was telling all the lies and cruel and criminal behaviours are nothing but the bankruptcy of truth. Osho, as many before him, tried to form reality according to his vison. But vision which is not rooted in truthfulness and in reality is doomed to fail. History shows this again and again. Many of Oshos ideas show a complete loss of reality. For example when Osho praised Stalin and declared communism as the harbinger of the next spiritual revolution (" Communism and Zen Fire "). Apart from the fact that these ideas are a simple derision of the victims of one of the biggest mass murderer of the 20-th century, the idea would fail for the same reasons why Rajneeshpuram failed. The kind of society which Osho painted there, would be a nightmare in reality. In the context with the 9/11 attacks I recently heard a rather good definition of terrorism: "Terrorism is a raid on consciousness". I think, this fits quite well to Osho, who called himself a "spiritual terrorist". Osho tried with every means to get into the conscious of people and he thought himself to be great. Greater than all the masters he spoke about. But the result was and is a desaster. Not only on the physical, material and social level. But also because people have become conditioned by Osho, up to such a degree that they can not see reality anymore. Many disciples of Osho have a hard time today and the remains of the movement are decaying inexorably. Osho did not care very much for his disciples. I remeber Viveks (Nirvanos) death very well. Vivek was one of Oshos first disciples and had a long and extremely dedicated and devoted relationship with Osho. She has spent a great part of her life on his side. In "Notes of a madman" you can read how Osho (under laughing gas) goofes on Vivek (there under her new name Nirvano). Osho the untouchable master and Vivek without chance. What happened to Osho when Vivek committed suicide one day before his last birthday in 1989 in Bombay with an overdose of drugs? Vivek was burnt immediately and secretly at night in ghats. Oshos only statement was that she was depressive. And the commune leaders spread that Osho declines suicide. But this was not the reason why he downplayed her suicide. He of course immediately recognised that her suicide could damage his image. You again will tell me that this is supposition. Yes, I have no proof, only various statements by sannyasins who knew Vivek well, Oshos statement, public statements. But even without any proof this tells a lot about Osho. Osho was talking about compassion, but reality was different, his main focus was his own image and his reputation as the master of masters.

    Regards
    Bern hard Smith


    Reply
      Anthony Thompson: RE:The decline of Osho and his movement
      Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
      Date: Dec 26, 2007, 18:37
      Mr. Bernstein.
      Finally we touch the ceiling in this discussion. You basically have the same standing point as Calder: which is " this is the truth. You do not want to see it... you are a liar, because you know the facts. " You even have the same way of wording your sentenbces as Mr. Calder.
      My friend, I do not neet to regard Osho as super human or infallible to admire or like the man.
      However I have my own opinions and points of view with things I do not agree... but that is not the issue.
      You confuse opinions and interpretations with facts and here is where my point is different from yours.
      You do not approach me and tell me " you know what: I have this theory how it all happnned because of what I heard or read , plus my own experience in the commune in Europe". No, you come and call me a liar because My opinion is different from yours.
      If you would have done what I said before I will be willing to dicuss enlightenment, the share a home programme, life under a master, master-disciple relationship, the perils of seeking etc.
      YOU SIMPLY DO NOT HAVE THE FACTS!
      you have your theory... that is all.
      YOU THINK OSHO HAD TO BE BEHIND SHEELA.
      My theory is different, because of the people I have interviewed. Because they tell a different story. And my theory is that osho was not behind sheela s crimes. Because of who he was... but more importantly because there is no proof whatsoever in that direction.NONE. NOT EVEN FROM SHEELA HERSELF.
      I interviwed a lot of p?©ople who lived in the european communes under sheela regime and they tell me the same story as yours. But they interpretation is that it was sheela´s stuff no Osho´s. In fact when Osho took power again,things inmediatly changed.
      Little siddhartha told me he was expelled from the ranch and Osho himself send him a letter to come back when sheela left. Siddatha thought that Osho had expelled him. The same with Amitabh and other people. Vismaya in Europe told me she was offered to re-run medina with Poonam after Sheela left and many cases like that. Letters of apologies were sent all over Europe to commune leader and people who were treated unfearly under Sheel{as regime..
      Prove of that is none of this happenned in Puna I, except minor power games, but while Sheela was in power.
      I know too well how Satya bharti´s and Shiv??s books were written and published.
      Do you know that the first draft of satya´s book was rejected for being "too positive" and that she had to re-write parts of it specially the ones related to sex to please the publishers?
      Shiv??s book is ful of inacuracies or misunderstandings from Poona I. You know why is this? The publisher wanted something more "juicy" with conspiracies and ramping sexuality in it , so ity would sell.
      Kate Strelly´s book even suggest that Vimalkirti was purpusedly killed in Poona one and that Osho´s attempted murder was a show. The guy who did it, tulsi, was around evfen at the beggining of poona II creating problems and threatening the ashram. Just the agreement with the local police kept him away from the gates. Did you know that?
      Maneesha told me tons of stories contradicting shiva´s book. They knew each other from the time of Kaleidoscope Growth center in London and they were good friends all througout their disciplehood.
      She could not belive the things He wrote.

      Well, I think this is it. No new facts, just your own understanding against mine and my interviews. If you are interested in a detailed descrption of my sources you can writre to my email...but I will not discuss here your theories... just refute ideas and suppositions that you take for facts.
      Regards anthony

      Reply
        Bernhard Smith: RE:The decline of Osho and his movement
        Date: Dec 27, 2007, 15:18
        Mr. Thompson,

        the facts are known and published. I append a small book list at the end. I also have given you facts. You just ignore them or try to discredit them. Satya Bharti herself mentioned in her book that the publisher thought the draft being "too positive" because she did the same thing you do. She describes her inner process in detail. In the begining she, like you, rationalized, because she could not manage the discrepancy between her love to Osho and the many many obvious facts and events she had experienced and subsequently described in her book. Her book is subjective certainly, as any book on such a subject must be, but it is absolutely honest and contains many many facts. There is not much about sex and if so it is very intimate and sensitive. Not at all sensational. And her story is the story of many of us, no matter which role they played. She tells it like it was, giving many details and facts. The details are not only plausible, they are true. I did not find even one story in the book which did not correspond with my own experience. You deny all of this and discredit the people. Shiva is so fed up with all the lies and denial that he does not even want to discuss the whole thing any more. Maneesha is a nice women. I like her books, but that's only half the story. If she published the missing parts too, she might be one of the most profound witnesses and immensly helpful to make people understand the drama. She knows the dark side very well, but does not tell. And if she thinks Shivas story is inappropriate or wrong, she can tell publicly, she is a well educated writer. I agree with you upon the cited statements of Kate Strelly´s. They are nonsens. There were many many crackpots and drug addicts around Osho. Certainly there is a lot of nonsens in the pipe too. But the descriptions of Sathya Bharti are correct. The real events are downplayed still after all this years because of Oshos involvement in fakes and criminal acts. And you do exactly what people do, who are involved in a sect. You deny. Only after the hypnosis is broken, the members of sects come up with their emotional, mental and factual realities. The phenomenon of denial and prevention of criticism always arises in systems and ideologies which have no base in reality. In the traditional religions as well as in their esoteric substitutes. Unfortunately, there seems to be an archaic need for salvation messages, leaders and super heroes. Most people long for a paradise, for God, for enlightenment, for a state of liberation. But in the end, we always have to confront ourselves with reality.

        The events happend exactly because of who Osho was! We will not find an agreement here. Osho had drastic problems with the factual reality and he absolutely misinterpreted the effects and the results of the use of power. No wonder this phenomena are also found in many of his disciples. Osho manipulated and experimented with people throughout his life. He did not care much, if people suffered from this. Many of his disciples and even their children have to deal with the results. Osho consumed large amounts of drugs, valium, methaqualon and laughing gas given to him by irresponsible disciples who were not able to understand the destructive implications for Osho and the movement as a whole. O tone Osho (under laughing gas): "I am so relieved that I do not have to pretend to be enlightened any more. Krishnamurti, the poor guy, he has still to pretend he's enlightened.". The reality was vice versa. Osho was the fake, not Krishnamurti, who for most of his life rejected all that master-disciple nonsense, surrender and so on.

        Mr. Thompson. We will not find common grounds. If it is true what you write, you just have listened to others and decided to believe in certain people. My insight is not only based on knowledge. But even without any knowledge it is easy for outsiders to feel and understand that there is something very strange about Osho. I have no resentment about Osho. Osho is dead. But all the lies that are still in the air can destroy lives and mislead people.

        I think it's fine for the both of us to end it here. I just like to recommend to others, read the books of Satya Bharti and of Shiva for yourself. Or read Sams "Life of Osho". It's free on the internet as PDF. Or read other books or articles of your joice and see for yourself if is compatible with your own experience or not. But my experience is, that most sannyasins will not to read and inform themselfs, because they think themselfs above all that. They again and again have been told by Osho to ignore. And that's why the Osho movement has no more relevance in the world today. If there are some left who think themselfs enlightened or the last and only disciples of Osho, I don't object. It's their live. There are so many things happening in the world today which are of more importance, and there are many intelligent people out there. Why waste time? So it's fine to me to end our discussion here.

        Regards

        Bernh ard Smith

        ---------------- ----------

        Some books on the subject:


        Brecher, Max.
        „A Passage to America�, Book Quest, Bombay, 1993.

        Carter, Lewis F. 1990.
        „Charisma and Control in Rajneeshpuram�, Cambridge University Press.

        Christopher Caler 1998
        „Osho, Bhagwan Rajneesh, and the Lost Truth�

        Fitzgerald, Frances. 1986.
        "A Reporter at Large; Rajneeshpuram - I." The New Yorker.

        Frizgerald, Frances. 1987.
        „ Cities on a Hill�, Simon and Schuster, New York.

        Franklin, Satya Bharti 1992
        „The Promise of Paradise�, Station Hill New York.

        Gordon, James S. 1987.
        „The Golden Guru�, The Stephen Greene Press.

        Hamilton, Rosemary 1998.
        „Hellbent For Enlightenment: Unmasking Sex, Power, and Death with a Notorious Master.�, White Cloud Press.

        Hugh Milne 1986
        „Bhagwan, the God that Failed�, St. Martin’s Press New York

        Jenkins, Philip 2001
        „Mystics & Messiahs: Cults and New Religions in American History.
        Oxford University.

        Joshi, Vasant 1982.
        „The Awakened One: The Life and Work of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh.
        Harper & Row: New York

        Palmer, Susan J. and Charlotte E. Hardman (eds). 1999,
        „Children in New Religions�. Piscataway, NJ: Rutgers University Press.

        The Oregonian. 1984.
        "For Love and Money: The Rajneeshees From India to Oregon."
        20-part series appearing in The Oregonian (June 30-July 19 1984)

        The Oregonian. 1985.
        "On the Road Again: Rajneesh and Company Pull Up Stakes from Oregon As Guru's Vision in Desert Becomes a Mirage." (December 30)

        Tim Guest 2005.
        "My Life In Orange" The child of an Osho disciple recounts his crazy life growing up under the "Rajneesh.�

        Shu nyo, Prem. 1993.
        „My Diamond Days With Osho�.

        Juliet Forman 1989
        Bhagwan: Twelve day That Shoock The World
        Bhagwan: One Man Against the Whole Ugly Past of Humanity

        ------------- -------------

        Reply
          Anthony Thompson: RE:The decline of Osho and his movement
          Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
          Date: Dec 28, 2007, 8:36
          Mr. Bernstein.
          I am not a sannyasin;. I am nobody's follower. I am a schoeller. I dedicated 22 years of my life to study Osho and his disciples. I read all the books you mention. and some others which are not in the list. I have read a single piece of writing that came out in english language and spanish about the man and the movement. I have interviwed current and former disciples. I talked personally to each person who lived in osho's house since 1977.
          Sir, here is where you are wrong. You think I must be misinformed to state what I state... or at least a cultist to do so.
          I am not. I am a researcher, not a follower. I do not claim to be objective...there is no such thing. I admire the man and I think his contributioin to the field of transperonal psychology has no parallel in the world of mystics.
          I just have a different version of the same story... that is all. And this version did not come out of my mind, but out of the very people involved in the stories.I am sorry you got hurt out of your adventure with him, but what you call facts are just interpretations.
          I liked Satya's book. I think she is sincere, but again she makes the same mistake: she confuses interpretations with truths. and also think sheel'as crimes are related to osho... or at least he was morally responsable... and here we go again with supositions.
          regards
          an thony

          Reply
            Bernhard Smith: RE:The decline of Osho and his movement
            Date: Dec 28, 2007, 14:45
            Mr. Thomposon you are not objective. Not at all. This is complete nonsens. You were even close to Osho´s family. You did 22 years on research on Osho but besides your little private crusade against Mr. Calder I did not find any scientific publication by you on Osho, neither in the internet nor in bookstores. It is obvious. You must be obsessed with Osho for reasons I do not know. Every little child can see the massive evidence of malfeasance. Why did you research for 22 years, if you don't publish? If you read all the books and do not see the implications, you must be someone who has a completely religiously or spiritually conditioned mind. You remind me of "scientists" who spent their lifes to serve the Vatican to prove that Darwin was wrong (creationism), just to avoid the simple fact that the bible is just a fabricated collection of brutal fairytales. The books about Osho are full of details which prove criminal acts of all kinds. And I have lots of direct experience on my own. You are part of the conspiracy. You know the facts and you hide, obscure, excuse, justify and mock others with all the typical arguments which are used by crazy people like you. For example, me being hurt or not is not relevant here. This is just the usual trick to turn things in a way as if it was my individual problem and my subjective perceptions. I realy wonder where you have got your Ph.D. from. You may have a Ph.D. but you have not even learned a minimum of ethical understanding and honesty in your live.

            Bernhard Smith

            Reply
              Anthony thompson: RE:The decline of Osho and his movement
              Date: Dec 29, 2007, 3:07
              My sir. my publishing is in spanish. do you read spanish?
              You have no personal experience of the claims that you call me a liar. neither Mr. calder was able to provide any proof of the claimes that I debated. just paper clippings and things he heard or read.
              my profile can be found
              in:
              http://www.zo ominfo.com/people/THompso n_Anthony_-373474.aspx


              I do not pretend to be objective. Do not tell me stories provide eyewittnesses account that YOU know of the points you call me a liar.
              I do not care about discussing osho's philosophy... but to clarify the lies and misunderstandings.
              There is no proof appart from what Hugh milne said that osho was addicted or used regulary NO2, outside dental sessions,...red my article and tell me exactly where I lie. I dont care about your experience unless it related directly to the points we dicuss.
              anthony

              Reply
                Bernhard Smith: RE:The decline of Osho and his movement
                Date: Dec 29, 2007, 10:23
                Yes, I read Spanish. Please give me some titles or publishers. At least prove you are a scientist. The link you gave does not work.

                NO2: No one dictates 3 books under laughing gas (NO2) during dental sessions. That's just ridiculous.

                Bernhard Smith

                Reply
                  Anthony Thompson: RE:The decline of Osho and his movement
                  Date: Dec 29, 2007, 10:43
                  Mr. Bernsteir, this is getting rediculus. the link I gave you does work, but not as a direct link... you need to retype it again without the spaces that this poage produces.
                  Sir I wrote a whole article replying to calder I will not go through the same thing with you. so, please read the article and tell me where I lie... and please provide proofs , please
                  the article is:
                  http://www.fillmash. com/christopher-calder-kr ishna-christ-and-his-lyin g-or-misinformed-lost-tru th
                  remeber to retype it without the spaces

                  Regarding my spanish publications refeer to: Revista Uno mismo, Edici'on septiembre 2002, enero 1998, diciembre 2000, y ediciones junio, julio y agosto 2001
                  buena suerte en tu busqueda.
                  By the way who are you? I mean your real name to check you up... that you are not Calder, because I am having dejavu all over again with you.
                  Anthony

                  Reply
p.r.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
Date: Jan 1, 2008, 10:55
.and then calder, having 'declared' on September 8, 2007, 19.44

.I am 'signing off',

.signs on again, on December 22, 2007, 19.59,

.as 'bernhard smith' another ASS of aliASSES

.'who' then spews a paragraph

.reeking of calder,

.upon the 'quote' of a man who

."will not speak out"

.and who then "speaks"

.an d then on December 24, 2007, 15.30

.'caldersmith' brays again

.and pompously pontificates "I will not give 'my' identity"

.and piously pursues the resurr'wreck'tion of 'calder'

.and then on December 25, 2007, 15.43

.caldersmith brays again

.a patronising apology

.in calders contrived aliASS spellings

.and then regurgitates his Xmas dinner

.in a cathartic 'sin'tax of self righteous vitriol

.and then on December 26, 2007, 10.59

.caldersmith brays again

.and in the midst of swishing their 'tales' expose

.the tip of their 'guru' lusts and envies

.in their 'prison' sentence

."I did so for a couple of times (spending a lot of money)

.and then on December 27, 2007, 15.18

.caldersmith brays again

.in a calderous cacophony of hee haws

.from a herd of ASSES braying

.at they know not what, at they know not who, at they know not where,

.as caldersmith again 'declares'

."so its fine to me to end 'our' discussion here"

.before retreating into their pit of malignant misanthropy

.to chew their cancerous calder cud

.until ......................... ......................... .........


.on December 28, 2007, 14.45

.caldersmith with predictable pomposity and asinine arrogance

.emerge from their pit

.to cast stones .... at each other

.in a diatribe that describes their duplicity

.and then on December, 29, 2007, 10.23

.caldersmith 'brays' again

.a couple of para'coughs'

.in an apt appendix to the dictates of their 'book'

.NO 2 'U' .... with a cover picture of a

.herd of braying ASSES,

.teeth bared and eyes piously popping

.ridiculous .... of course .... laughable YES

Reply
randomfaction: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: random616@hotmail.com
Date: Jan 12, 2008, 3:00
Yeah, you guys are so clueless, anyone with a bit of street smarts can see it for what it is, a con. Some savvy Indian dude mixes up a cauldron of containing Eastern musings on life the universe and everything and throws in some Reichian concepts for good measure. He had you pegged, he saw you white, middle-class, hetrosexual, hippies, and various truth seeking wannabes, for what you were, a bunch of gullible and neurotic Westerners
looking for the spiritual equivalent of Mc Donald's, and you are still falling for it. The guy was one smart cookie, but that's about it. Take a look on Youtube, how many gurus are there on there claiming to be an avatar of one description or another, clowns like this have been duping Indians for centuries, and now a bunch of hopeless Westerners are lapping it up in the wake of failed Judaeo Christian theology and a world consuming itself with capitalistic fervor. Time is running out and there are no miracle workers or wise men who can undo the damage man is doing to his mother.
You people should put your energies towards real change, the changing self to change society dictum
is all out of time. Act for f*** sake, while you still have time; oh, but hang on, haven't governments the world over managed to change laws (under the guise of anti-terrorism legislation) to stop you acting now that you really need to? ooops looks like while you were meditating the One World Government took control. Oh yeah, and just to really irk some of you wasters, found this great video of Sheela: yeah Osho told her what to do, and don't ever forget it!

Reply
randomfaction: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
WWW: video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=4401304488678
Email: random616@hotmail.com
Date: Jan 12, 2008, 3:04
oh yeah, here's the video link:

http://video.goo gle.com/googleplayer.swf? docId=4401304488678688454 &hl=en-GB

or simply go to google video and type Sheela becasue these fuckards have disabled html

Reply
    anthony thompson: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Date: Jan 12, 2008, 5:09
    randomfaction. what is a smart, aware, socially conscious man like you doing writing in sannyas owned websites, instead of figthing against the world goverment?
    Just another computer geek...
    You better type sex in the google search instead of Osho... or perhaps "world goverment"
    good luck in your search.
    Anthony

    Reply
Pankaj Mohan: Controversies Made Osho Rajneesh More Colorful
WWW: proaudience.com
Email: dhyan69@rediffmail.com
Date: Jan 13, 2008, 15:19
This debate between the Osho followers and his critics will go on for ever. My own take on this matter has been posted on the following link (hope it is allowed):

http://proau dience.com/2008/01/contro versies-made-osho-rajnees h-more-colorful/

Kind Regards,
Pankaj Mohan

Reply
Nemo: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: nemomen2003@yahoo.it
Date: Jan 31, 2008, 14:38
Hi,

I read with interest your debates, expecially the topics about the reincarnation - it seems that Osho "in the end" said that there is no reincarnation, while before he talked about past lives.

But "reincarnation" is a "belief", and Osho always said that he didn't want to feed any belief - so ...

Was Osho a liar? I think that ... yes, he was a very intelligent liar.

All what he said induces to meditate, so that we could see *alone* the truth.

As he said the Truth must enter by the front door (our eyes), not by the words of another.

Ciao

(I'm Italian, my English may not be perfect - hope u understand anyway).



Reply
    Nemo: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: nemomen2003@yahoo.it
    Date: Jan 31, 2008, 14:58
    PS: beside, I think it's quite stupid to say that he was not enlightened just because of the valium or for the NO2 ... it's absolutely silly.

    It's typical of the mediocre people to use the gossip when they do not find better weapons.

    Reply
Devkant Gandhi: Anthony vs. Calder aka bernhard smith
Email: askfordev@yahoo.com
Date: Feb 7, 2008, 21:00

Been following this thread for quite a while.I am an osho admirer myself, however am trying to read this debate objectively. I keep wondering though, why is Mr. Calder so bent upon criticizing and proving Osho as a cheat. I wonder if Calder, deep down is still in awe of Osho himself. And just to prove that he is not, to himself, he speaks against him. If he has nothing to do with Osho any more, why care so much?! Just go your own merry way?! Osho's desciples are in no way harming the society (if that is one of his concerns). So why can't he just forget about it all? If anything osho teaches nothing but meditation, which can't really harm anybody.
I have gone through the TES hypothesis etc. by Calder. It seems to me, even for Mr. calder to come up with the TES hypothesis he must have had a lot of help from Osho's preaching and philosophy. Something he can't get rid of, even if he wanted to. Lot of Osho's teachings opens your mind to what is true and once you have known truth you can't unknow it, if you know what I mean.

Reply
    Anonymously Enlightened: RE:Anthony vs. Calder aka bernhard smith
    Date: Feb 8, 2008, 18:53
    Dear Devkant Gandhi,

    You wrote, "I keep wondering though, why is Mr. Calder so bent upon criticizing and proving Osho as a cheat. I wonder if Calder, deep down is still in awe of Osho himself. And just to prove that he is not, to himself, he speaks against him. If he has nothing to do with Osho any more, why care so much?! Just go your own merry way?! Osho's desciples are in no way harming the society (if that is one of his concerns). So why can't he just forget about it all?"

    Bernhard Smith said, "It is obvious that these events are a wound for many sannyasins."

    Cald er is suffering. I do not think there is any question about that. The question is, "What is he suffering from?"

    I was joking when I said he had Generalized Anxiety Disorder. He is most likely suffering from Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.

    Osho took his sannyasins through a lot of stress. Many of the things that happened do not make sense to those who followed his actions. Calder does make some good points. There are many things that happened that Calder cannot come to terms with.

    A lot of hopes were projected onto Osho by all of us. Osho fostered the hope that we all could become enlightened. I assume that Osho believed others could become enlightened through meditation. I do not believe Osho realized that others could not become enlightened.

    My own personal experience with enlightenment is that people with higher levels of consciousness are more meditative by nature. That is, consciousness makes one meditative, rather than meditation making one more conscious.

    The problem became apparent late in Osho's life. When after all of his efforts, he had no enlightened disciples.

    His goal was to create 200 enlightened people. He thought that number was sufficient to transform the world. When none of his disciples became enlightened, he started declaring some of his disciples enlightened, who were not.

    One famous incident, that Osho used to project the image that people could become enlightened through his effort, was that of Vimalkirti.

    http://osh oworld.com/biography/inne rcontent.asp?FileName=bio graphy7/07-71-vimalkirti. txt

    I do not think that there is any question that Calder, and many other sannyasins, were wounded by what happened.

    I was also wounded.

    My experience with sannyasins - was that they did not care whether I was enlightened or not. In fact, it meant to them, that I was a competitor. Now, we all know what that means. I was the enemy. I did not receive love from sannyasins. I received their hatred.

    I think Osho experienced the same thing. No one cared about his enlightenment for 35 years. How can another care? When another cannot conceive what that experience is.

    I also believed, like Osho. That others could become enlightened. That is what every other enlightened person had been saying up to that point in history. It is not Osho's fault. It is a myth that has been handed down from other enlightened people. Who also believed.

    I would like to make a few points very clear.

    1. Osho did what he did, because he thought he could help others achieve enlightenment.

    2. I no longer believe, from experience and trial and error, that I can help others become enlightened.

    3. I wish I could help others become enlightened, but that is a false hope I no longer carry.

    I cannot tell you how painful this realization has been for me. My wife is not enlightened. I do not believe she will ever become enlightened. I have worked with many people, and tried many experiments with meditation. I have watched with great interest what happened with Osho and the results of his efforts.

    The wound Calder is carrying, and that of many other sannyasins, is that they thought they could become enlightened. Everything revolves around this one issue. Can you become enlightened or not.

    Forgiven
    by
    Ala nis Morissette

    You know how us Catholic girls can be.
    We make up for so much time a little too late.
    I never forgot it, confusing as it was.
    No fun with no guilt feelings.
    The sinners, the saviors, the loverless priests.
    I'll see you next Sunday.

    Chorus:
    We all had our reasons to be there.
    We all had a thing or two to learn.
    We all needed something to cling to.
    So we did.

    I sang Alleluia in the choir.
    I confessed my darkest deeds to an envious man.
    My brothers they never went blind for what they did.
    But I may as well have.
    In the name of the Father, the Skeptic and the Son,
    I had one more stupid question.

    Chorus:
    We all had our reasons to be there.
    We all had a thing or two to learn.
    We all needed something to cling to.
    So we did.

    What I learned I rejected, but I believe again.
    I will suffer the consequence of this inquisition.
    If I jump in this fountain, will I be forgiven?

    Chorus:
    We all had our reasons to be there.
    We all had a thing or two to learn.
    We all needed something to cling to.
    So we did.

    We all had delusions in our head.
    We all had our minds made up for us.
    We had to believe in something.
    So we did.

    It is a jagged little pill to swallow. Isn't it?

    Anonymously Enlightened

    Reply
      p.r.: RE:Anthony vs. Calder aka bernhard smith
      Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
      Date: Feb 10, 2008, 9:49

      .it was between Jan 23, 2008, 14.55 and Feb 2, 2008, 19.17 ....

      .that .... anonymouse .... the self proclaimed puppet ....

      .became en"tightened" by his strings in the strands of this 'web'zine ....

      .and then slept in a slumped surrender ....


      .and then on Feb 8, 2008, 18.53 ....

      .6 days after his anonymouse en"tightenment" ....

      .he woke and .... wounded, wishing and whining ....

      .drooled a dismal, dislogistic diatribe ....

      .stinking of calderSchnelleSmith ....

      .before popping a "pill" in a plea to be ....

      .an anonymousely "forgiven" .....

      .puppet

      Reply
        pooja: RE:Anthony vs. Calder aka bernhard smith
        Date: Feb 11, 2008, 2:54
        listen to ur hr8 nd u'll kno the truth
        my hr8 completely falls with osho ....i hv herd saints nd priests shouting on the roof top to supress anger, to supress sex...bt actually they are the most corrupted ppl...they are the ones acting a 2 faced life bt i like the approach of this man (osho) for being upfront about things and when a master goes ppl only look for wordz nd wordz nd wordz nd the stupid mind goes on misinterpretting the wordz ....the mind is on an ego trip, there is no sense in saying dont use the mind bt the sense is only in saying juss use the damn mind otherwise it'll use u.
        i read so many articles on anger either ppl had to say dont b angry or used to suggest anger management but truly speaking i use my mind completely nd with due logics i found dat how m i gonna manage on something that already exists by supressing it? then the article struck me by the name of osho nd here is wot he had to say....
        in short i'll tell u in my wordz bt dont go on the wordz b intelligent enough to understand the message ..if ur intelligent enough to use ur mind u would.......rest can mumble the wordz nd get ass shit out of it.........
        anger has to b expressed the man said nd how? chk his thought...
        Anger - Express or Not

        A visitor asks: "Osho; have you suggested that now is the time for me to live out my negative emotions, because in the past I never allowed myself to show them in public? I remember a group experience, years ago, in which one of the exercises was to express, in your own way, any emotion suggested, and i was unable to express anything except anger. Maybe I really didn't even know what such emotions felt like, in a conscious way; I didn't even allow myself to admit that these emotions were there. I am trying to put together the pieces in this puzzle. Am I on the track?"
        "First remember not to misunderstand me. I have said, "Express your negative emotions;" I have not said, "Publicly." That's how things become distorted.
        Now if you are feeling angry with someone and you start expressing your anger, the other person is not going to be a Gautam Buddha and sit silently. He is not a marble statue; he will also do something. You will express anger, he will express anger.
        It will create more anger in you - and anger or violence create, from the other side, the same, and with a vengeance. And then you will feel like being more into it, because you have been told to express.
        Yes, I have told you to express - but I don't mean publicly.
        If you are feeling angry, go to your room, close off the room, beat the pillow, stand before a mirror, shout at your own image, say things that you have never said to anybody and always wanted to say. But it has to be a private phenomenon, otherwise there is no end. Things go on moving in a circle, and we want to end them.
        So the moment you feel any negative emotion about anybody, that other person is not the question. The question is that you have a certain energy of anger. Now, that energy has to be diffused into the universe. You are not to repress it within yourself.
        So whenever I say, "Express," I always mean privately, in your aloneness. It is a meditation, it is not a fight. If you are feeling sad, sit in your room and feel as much sad as you can - it can't harm. Be really sad and see how long it stays. Nothing stays forever; soon it will be passing away. If you feel like crying, cry - but in your privacy.
        These things have nothing to do with others. Everything is your problem; why make it public? And that way, it is not going to be helped but on the contrary, it will be increased.
        So every day, before going to sleep, for one hour at night, sit on your bed and do all kinds of crazy things that you wanted to do, that people do when they are angry, violent, destructive. And it does not mean that you have to be destructive to very valuable things; just tearing papers into small bits and throwing them all over - and you know the story. And that will do.
        Destroy anything, it can be valueless - but everything has to be done in your privacy, so when you come out, you come fresh.
        If you want to do something in public, do what I was telling you about those primitives. You can go to the person you were angry with and tell him, "I have been, in private, angry with you. I shouted at you, I abused you, I said ugly things to you; please forgive me. But it was all done in privacy, because it was my problem; it has nothing to do with you. But in a certain way it was directed at you, and you are not aware of it; hence an, apology is needed.
        This has to be done in public. That will help people to help each other. And that person will not be angry; he will say, "There is no need for an apology. You have not done anything to me. And if you are feeling clean, it was a good exercise.
        But in public don't bring your negativities, your ugliness; otherwise, you are creating bigger problems in trying to solve small problems. Be really very careful. Everything negative has to be in private, in your aloneness. And if you want to make any public statement about it - because somebody may have been in your mind with whom you were hateful, whom you killed while you were tearing the paper - go to him and humbly ask for his forgiveness".
        Osho
        where on earth cud nebody give such a profound thought........is the intelligence so falling short that no meaning is found from such a profound man?


        4give me 4 the spellings




        Reply
        Devkant Gandhi: RE:Anthony vs. Calder aka bernhard smith
        Email: askfordev@yahoo.com
        Date: Feb 11, 2008, 5:57
        As much as I think your (moc.liamtohat) style of writing is unsual, it's very funny and entertaining. If Mr. Calder is what Mr. Thompson thinks of him as, then Calder deserves the interesting critic style of yours :)

        Reply
          Anonymously Enlightened: RE:Anthony vs. Calder aka bernhard smith
          Date: Feb 11, 2008, 15:56
          Dear Devkant Gandhi,

          Let me explain to you who Mockman is (a.k.a. moc.liamtohat). Mockman has been monitoring this thread since Oct 17, 2005. That is, he has been participating for 2 years and 4 months. He entered into this debate only after Calder started posting messages.

          Mockman obviously monitors this bulletin board daily. I posted my first message on Jan 23, 2008. Mockman posted a reply on Jan 24, 2008. I was not even aware of this message board until a few days before my first post. It is actually quite buried, and hard to find.

          Before I say who Mockman is. Let us take a look at Mockman's strategy.

          A definition of mocking is:

          1. derisive
          2. abusing vocally
          3. expressing contempt or ridicule

          A definition of mock is:

          1. treat with contempt
          2. imitate with mockery and derision
          3. constituting a copy or imitation of someone.

          A definition of mockery is:

          1. jeer
          2. showing your contempt by derision parody
          3. a composition that imitates somebody's style
          4. mimicry.

          Mockery is an old political strategy used to discredit another during a political campaign. In my opinion, this is not personal. It is political. Following logic, who has the most to gain, politically? Why, it is the "Osho Resort" in Poona. In my opinion, Mockman is associated with the Osho Poona Resort, and most likely works there.

          Mockman is a politician. Mockman, copied this political strategy from someone else. The method of mockery that he uses is as old as the Internet itself. If you have been around forums long enough, you will see that many people have used this strategy of harassment.

          Why is Mockman anonymous? because he does not want you to know that he is associated with the Osho Resort in Poona, of course!

          Now, I consider this their welcome message to me.

          This is nothing new.

          Politics is hate. Hate is politics.

          The people at the Osho Resort are politicians, not enlightened beings. They have a business to protect. No big deal. They are just doing what George Bush and Dick Cheney are doing. Bush and Cheney are protecting their oil interests in the Middle East. It is all about money and protecting it.

          Did you know that a Website recently published, in a database, that the Bush administration lied 930 times in the lead up to the Iraq War?

          I called Mockman a puppet. Then he tried to turn it around to make it sound like I called myself a puppet. Nice lie! but it did not work.

          I think it is sad, really, that they have stooped so low.

          Dear Devkant Gandhi, I can be who ever you want me to be. I can be Calder, if you want to believe. You can be Mockman, I will be Calder. I don't care.

          Hate is hate.

          Let me switch that around.

          Hate is hate.

          Why, it sounds the same no matter which way it is said or written.

          My reply to the people at the Osho Resort, for sending me Mockman is:

          Fuck you! you pieces of shit!

          My apologies to Pooja.

          Now, you have gone and made an enemy out of me!

          It was not necessary, but what is done is done.

          You should not have done that. Actually, I am quite famous. You will regret it.

          Anonymously Enlightened

          Reply
Devkant Gandhi: Life of Osho by Sam
Date: Feb 11, 2008, 6:01
Anybody ever read book "Life of Osho" by an author called Sam?

Reply
: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Feb 11, 2008, 23:00
muck liam - schnell

his pontificating priestly vomit

stains his white robe at his desk in the white house........`resort`.... `ashram`

high up in his ivory tower
or `en-lie-tenement`

bray ing against the filthy foul schmelling enemy......he must be
`dehumanised`

ALL calder and nothing but the calder

cunning politician

failed cunning linguist

sticks out his tongue licks the brown pants of his `co-ordinator`

`well done little muckliam ....you are doing HIS work spitting from the `comfort` of your flush toilet`
























Reply
phil: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: gargantua1082004@yahoo.co.uk
Date: Feb 11, 2008, 23:14
hi enlightenmentaholics anonymous.
i guess you are at the 13th step of EA?

Generalised Ontological Disease?
no known cure.....








Reply
    muckliamcaldersmith: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Date: Feb 12, 2008, 21:03
    muck sliam caldersmith

    appears again on feb 12

    `reeking of calder`

    he is clearly rolling in it

    can`t get it off his shoes or back out of it

    they are both drowning in someone else`s sea

    spewed venomously out of each other`s

    arrogant braying aliASSHOLES

    pontificat ingly pointing their putrid poison pens up each others ASSinine aliASSES

    in the name of `truth`



    l



    Reply
      p.r.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
      Date: Feb 13, 2008, 5:00
      p.r. stands for "Poona Resort"

      Don't you get it?

      Reply
        -: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
        Date: Feb 13, 2008, 7:32

        -




        -

        Reply
          Anonymously Enlightened: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
          Date: Feb 13, 2008, 14:51
          You stopped using your pseudonym, p.r. and moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com .

          Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

          It was a mistake to use p.r. a.k.a. "Poona Resort" as your name. You cannot change it now.

          You got caught, didn't you!

          Your mocking political strategy did not work. In fact, you made enlightenment an enemy.

          Not wise.

          More like stupid.

          So, the people at the Osho Poona Resort, a.k.a. p.r., a.k.a. moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com , monitor sannyasin Websites, and attempt to silence their critics.

          Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

          Fools!

          Assholes !

          Not a single success in your attempt to use lies to discredit me.

          Now everyone will know your main concern in life is propaganda, not the happiness of those you profess to care about, i.e. sannyasins.

          I walked away from the Osho movement when Osho died, because these are the same people, with the same attitudes, using the same tactics. After 18 years nothing has changed.

          My guess is that you hope after all the sannyasins are dead, who were actually there, that you can establish a myth around Osho that will guarantee your profits. In other words, you will become a religion and give people something to believe in.

          That is, Osho can show you the way to enlightenment.

          Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

          Come forward all yea enlightened heros ordained by Osho!

          Come forward and prove Osho created enlightened people!

          That is the one thing you people miscalculated. That an enlightened person would see through your lies, and expose you.

          Let me give you some advice. To keep the myth going, you must find someone, anyone, among you to be the enlightened one - to prove what Osho did worked. The more people, actors, the better. Why? because real enlightened people will call you on your shit.

          Anonymously Enlightened

          Reply
            Anonymously Enlightened: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
            Date: Feb 13, 2008, 20:38
            YES I AM CADLER
            I ACCEPT
            I KEEP CHANGING MY NAMES FROM TIME TO TIME

            Reply
              Anonymously Enlightened: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
              Date: Feb 13, 2008, 20:42
              OH I FORGOT TO MENTION MY FUCKING
              UN ENLIGHTENED NAME CRRECTLY SPELLS LIKE '
              CALDER

              Reply
                Anonymously Enlightened: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
                Date: Feb 13, 2008, 21:28
                Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

                I told you. I can be anyone you want me to be. I can be Calder. Just believe. I like him a hell of a lot better than you.

                Bring it on. You Fucking Asshole!

                This is fun!

                Anonymously Enlightened

                Reply
                  Anonymously Enlightened: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
                  Date: Feb 14, 2008, 4:23
                  Dear Mockman,

                  You assume that I am Calder. An assumption is a guess. You really don't know. You really cannot know. More importantly, you really do not want to know.

                  Any idiot can see my writing style is not the same as Calder's. Calder and I do not write about the same topics.

                  I had no current animosity for the Poonites.

                  You were foolish. You attacked the wrong person.

                  Now, just to save face, I must be Calder, because the other possibility would be unthinkable, that you disrespected a Buddha.

                  I love questions. Let us have some fun with questions.

                  What questions would be intelligent for you to ask yourself at this time?

                  1. What if he is not Calder?
                  2. What if he is enlightened?
                  3. What if he really is famous...like he had said?
                  4. What if he owns a famous Website that millions of visitors visit each year?

                  I have been thinking. Maybe, I should reveal my identity, but not here. This page has very few visitors. If and when I reveal my identity, it will be at my own Website, in my own time. Most importantly, If I do, I will destroy you!

                  Ok. I already warned you, so it is easy to calculate your response. Apathy. You can't feel it. You cannot care. You are emotionally a cripple, so you will continue to be abusive.

                  I know you will not stop. You Poonites, and other fellow investors, have too much money invested.

                  That's right. You never cared about enlightenment.

                  In the beginning, when the Ashram first began, and forever thereafter, you hoped that investing your money in Osho would pay you big dividends.

                  How could you care about enlightenment? You cannot conceive it. You cannot desire it.

                  What can you do with it?

                  If someone else has it, you thought you could make money off him.

                  It did not work out quite according to your plans, did it.

                  You hate the enlightened ones. You only wanted to profit from them.

                  The biggest con of all that Osho pulled was when he tricked all of you business assholes into investing in his enlightenment. He fed you what you wanted to hear. He was good, damn good. I loved him.

                  I ask myself, "What would Osho do?"

                  Why? I think he would fight against you lousy bastards.

                  Anonymously Enlightened

                  Reply
                    Anonymously Enlightened: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
                    Date: Feb 14, 2008, 10:47
                    I forgot to mention one more thing
                    HA HA HA I am a RAVANA ha ha ha
                    i am a real BUDDHA nd
                    unenlightened asshole, fucking punk disguising everybody even myself nd everybody has the proof of my identity but i keep sticking my ass with great pride
                    saying that i am THE ALMIGHTY
                    ha ha ha ....everbody can check out for themselves then why am i not giving my real identity...
                    I AM A FUCKING EGOIST calder
                    HA HA HA
                    Anonymously Enlightened


                    Reply
                      Anonymously Enlightened: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
                      Date: Feb 14, 2008, 13:56
                      Dear Everyone Else, but the Poonites and Mockman.

                      The following posts were posted by Mockman a.k.a.: p.r. and moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com :


                      Anonymously Enlightened:
                      RE:Reportin g From The Osho Resort Date: Feb 13, 2008, 20:38
                      YES I AM CADLER I ACCEPT I KEEP CHANGING MY NAMES FROM TIME TO TIME

                      Anonymously Enlightened:
                      RE:Reportin g From The Osho Resort Date: Feb 13, 2008, 20:42
                      OH I FORGOT TO MENTION MY FUCKING UN ENLIGHTENED NAME CRRECTLY SPELLS LIKE ' CALDER

                      Anonymously Enlightened:
                      RE:Reportin g From The Osho Resort
                      Date: Feb 14, 2008, 10:47 I forgot to mention one more thing
                      HA HA HA I am a RAVANA ha ha ha
                      i am a real BUDDHA nd
                      unenlightened asshole, fucking punk disguising everybody even myself nd everybody has the proof of my identity but i keep sticking my ass with great pride
                      saying that i am THE ALMIGHTY
                      ha ha ha ....everbody can check out for themselves then why am i not giving my real identity...
                      I AM A FUCKING EGOIST calder
                      HA HA HA



                      Anonymously Enlightened, Really!

                      Reply
Anonymously Enlightened: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Feb 14, 2008, 14:32
Dear Mockman, Poonites and other Business Investors in Osho's Enlightenment:

Ok. I already warned you, so it is easy to calculate your response. Apathy. You can't feel it. You cannot care. You are emotionally a cripple, so you will continue to be abusive.

I know you will not stop. You Poonites, and other fellow investors, have too much money invested.

This is just too easy. You are so predictable.

Could you guys and gals send someone with a little more intelligence?

I need a challenge here, because I get bored easy.

Anonymously Enlightened

Reply
    Anthony Thompson: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Date: Feb 14, 2008, 14:51
    With sadness i see this debate degenerating from an exposition of ideas and arguments to some kind of teenage chat.
    I have enjoyed this ride... but I am about to quit if this is the tomne of the discussion.
    regards anthony

    Reply
      Anonymously Enlightened: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      Date: Feb 14, 2008, 22:24
      Dear Mr. Thompson,

      Thank you for your post.

      The following posts were posted by Mockman a.k.a.: p.r. and moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com :

      Anonymously Enlightened:
      RE:Reportin g From The Osho Resort
      Date: Feb 14, 2008, 19:42

      Anonymously Enlightened:
      RE:Reportin g From The Osho Resort
      Date: Feb 13, 2008, 20:38

      Anonymously Enlightened:
      RE:Reportin g From The Osho Resort
      Date: Feb 13, 2008, 20:42

      Anonymously Enlightened:
      RE:Reportin g From The Osho Resort
      Date: Feb 14, 2008, 10:47

      Is there something you want to discuss? I am a very reasonable person, able to dialogue in intelligent conversation.

      I came here only to share, briefly, my perspective. If I am speaking in a room, during my turn to speak, and someone decides that I have no right to free speech, without political propaganda, character assassination and Swiftboating. Then, in my opinion, I have the right to rip their throat out. I think you, or any reasonable, honorable and courageous man or woman, would do the same.

      I would like to apologize to all the sannyasins who may have got the wrong impression. When I said I never received love from sannyasins. That is not true. I often times speak, out of habit, in absolutes. I did receive much love from sannyasins. I have many old letters from very beautiful sannyasins, before e-mail, hand written letters. A few were from the hierarchy at the time.

      The hate I received, it is really just coming back to me now, came from the hierarchy. I never knew why.

      The one thing Osho never spoke about, in public, was his relationship with the investors. He never really spoke about his personal life, how he became enlightened, what disciplines he used or his relationships with those closest to him.

      In my opinion, those closest to him were the investors. They were protecting their money from the beginning. We know how things can disintegrate when money is involved.

      Now, this information is coming out. At the time, the people around him were very silent about what really happened. I am not going to repeat myself. These things are revelations to me, too.

      If Mockman had not been such an asshole, I would have stopped posting a long time ago. He got me curious. I struck a nerve. Why?

      Oh! the mysteries around Osho continue.

      I would be happy to engage in dialogue with you.

      I am not against what you have written. I am not against what Calder has written. I just want to learn what really happened.

      I think that is what scares Mockman the most. That is, people learning about what really happened. I think that is the nerve I struck. I was too close to the truth. Ouch! They had to attack me, unnecessarily. They just could not help themselves.

      I tell you I smell a rat!

      The main reason for my posting here, was that I thought if people learned what I have learned, then there might be some healing. Yes, I actually came here to heal both myself, and at least some people who have been frustrated, maybe for decades, because they did not or are not becoming enlightened through meditation.

      Understand that I did not say meditation was not beneficial. Ouch! a double negative, can I do that? Anyway, I believe science has proven that meditation is beneficial.

      I am saying that enlightenment, consciousness and its development, is more complicated than just meditation.

      That there are other ways in life to grow. That too much emphasis is placed on enlightenment. That a person is not a failure, if it does not happen to them.

      A person can be as great or greater than an enlightened person. The important thing, in my opinion, is the soul. It finds different ways in different people to express itself.

      My unenlightened wife, is my equal. We have a partnership, each fulfilling different needs for the other. I would not trade one moment with my wife for a year with Osho.

      Enlightenment is all blown out of proportion. It has been so wrapped in myth, that what we know about it, just is not true. It is that myth that is taking people in the wrong direction. In the end, they are getting hurt, sometimes.

      The one thing that happened, that Osho cannot shake off the responsibility for, is Vivek. There is absolutely no excuse for what happened to her, that Osho can be forgiven for. Yes, even enlightened people are responsible for their behavior.

      My opinion, not fact.

      Thank you again for your post.

      Anonymously Enlightened

      Reply
        Anonymously Enlightened: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
        Date: Feb 18, 2008, 21:31
        IDEA STRUCK ME
        NOW i am hiding in your ass ANTHONY.. ur my last bet............
        my unenlightened wife kicked me out of my home
        and i have plenty of time proving myself NOT that shit ......................... .........
        PIECE calder bt i am left with no options as changing names dont help anymore everybody even you know the real me ,ahh i am myself fucking hard with this name i wish I was baby DONALD DUCK nd everybody believed my QUACK QUACK....
        in short.....HA!HA!HA!HA!HA! HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!

        quack quack
        Anonymously Enlightened!(your slaps due !)




        Reply
    Anonymously Enlightened: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Date: Feb 14, 2008, 19:42
    Dear Everyone Else, but the Poonites and Mockman.

    The following posts are posted by ME ONLY


    Anonymously Enlightened:
    RE:Reportin g From The Osho Resort Date: Feb 13, 2008, 20:38
    YES I AM CADLER I ACCEPT I KEEP CHANGING MY NAMES FROM TIME TO TIME

    Anonymously Enlightened:
    RE:Reportin g From The Osho Resort Date: Feb 13, 2008, 20:42
    OH I FORGOT TO MENTION MY FUCKING UN ENLIGHTENED NAME CRRECTLY SPELLS LIKE ' CALDER

    Anonymously Enlightened:
    RE:Reportin g From The Osho Resort
    Date: Feb 14, 2008, 10:47 I forgot to mention one more thing
    HA HA HA I am a RAVANA ha ha ha
    i am a real BUDDHA nd
    unenlightened asshole, fucking punk disguising everybody even myself nd everybody has the proof of my identity but i keep sticking my ass with great pride
    saying that i am THE ALMIGHTY
    ha ha ha ....everbody can check out for themselves then why am i not giving my real identity...
    I AM A FUCKING EGOIST calder
    HA HA HA



    Anonymously Enlightened, Really! NOW REALLY !
    AND I AM MYSELF A VERY PREDICTABLE AND BORING GUY EVEN ANTHONY IS BORED OF ME....SORRY ANTHONY I GIVE MY APPOLOGIES TO U AND NEXT TIME I SAY HA HA HA PLZ FEEL FREE TO SLAP ME
    UR SWEET HEART with a very boring name calder


    Reply
      sahyo: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      Date: Feb 16, 2008, 8:36

      ?

      Reply
        p.r.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
        Email: moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com
        Date: Feb 16, 2008, 9:18

        .in "the beginning" .............. "the webzine"

        .in "the end" ....................... "the webzine"

        .in between ......................... the "web"zine


        .in "the beginning" ............... the innocuous visitor

        .arrowstone, April 6, 2005, 0.56


        .in the shadow of "the beginning" .... the cuckoo

        .shrima'yank', June 6, 2005, 15.14


        .in hearing the caldercall of the cuckoo

        .giollomarco, June 6, 2005, 16.05


        .in obligatory outrage .... the cuckoo christening of calder

        .calderhome, Sept 6, 2005, 8.24


        .in ad nauseam ............ the cuckoo calder conceives

        .schnelle .... smith .... aliASSES .... anonymice


        .in unctuous union ......... their cuckoo calder chorus

        .in incestuous ire ........... their sere sermons

        .in calculation ................ their calder caco"phonies"

        .in consequence ............ their eventual exposures


        .inevitabl e ...................... their turbid turmoils

        .infantile ........................ their warped whinings

        .inaniloquent .................. their insipid inanities

        .insidious ....................... their puerile profanities

        .insignifi cant .................. their curdled
        cackling

        .indifferen t ..................... their meandering megalomania

        .inseparab le .................. their malignant misanthropy

        .incandesc ent ............... their febrile frustrations

        .in crescendos .............. their calderous coagulations

        .implodin g .... ...into ...... anonymouse ity


        .inescapable ................. their chosen epitaphs

        ........ R egurgitating I n P erpetuity

        ....... "You should not have done that"

        ......... "Actually, I am quite famous"

        ......... ...... "You will regret it"

        ............. .."I will destroy you"

        ............ ."My opinion, not fact"


        .in "the end" ...... the anonymouse ity en"tightened"

        .in between ........ the 'web'zine



        Reply
          Anonymously Enlightened: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
          Date: Feb 17, 2008, 17:28
          Dear Michael O'Byrne, alias Swami Jayesh; John Andrew, alias Swami Amrito; alias Swami Devaraj, alias, George Meredith; Mukesh Sarda and D'Arcy O Byrne, a brother of Michael O'Byrne:

          Fuck you, you pieces of shit.

          So you are the people behind p.r., a.k.a. moc.liamtohat@hotmail.com .

          Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

          From "The Ten Myths of Enlightened People"

          Edict number 7:

          "Enlightened people do not hate, and love everyone."

          I just want you to know that I hate you fucking assholes. That's all.

          Anonymously Enlightened

          Reply
            Anonymously Enlightened: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
            Date: Feb 19, 2008, 11:04
            THOUGHT FOR THE DAY:
            BARKING DOGS(OOPS CALDER)SELDOM BITE.



            so everybody fell free to slap me( 1 TIGHT SLAP)
            Anonymously Enlightened



            Reply
              Anonymously Enlightened: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
              Date: Feb 19, 2008, 11:14
              AFTER HAVING ONE TIGHT SLAP I AM FINALLY
              ENLIGHTENED :)
              HA! HA! HA! HA!



              FINALLY,
              Anonymously Enlightened IS ENLIGHTENED...tightened with one tight slap


              Reply
                Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
                Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
                Date: Feb 21, 2008, 20:08
                I am a bit confussed. i am open to discuss and share what I know with M. anonimously enlightened. Iknow some of the people you mention in your previous post as beiong behind p. r. I strongly doubt any of them would write in this post.
                any way what would youb like to discuss?
                regards
                anthony

                Reply
Tim broussard: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: cajunguy33@hotmail.com
Date: Feb 21, 2008, 23:02
Mr. Thomson, Annonymos is calder no matter how he wants to hide it. So you risk getting into a fifteen thousand page debate all over again and getting back lame arguments without basis and evidence. Time now to quit worrying about this silly man and maybe put this page to more use.
I appreciate all your effort so far in dealing with him. You worked hard.

Reply
    Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Date: Feb 22, 2008, 13:58
    I just feel extremly curious about someone who calls himself enlightened and is full of arrogance, anger, resentement, megalomaniac speech... and what seems to be worst... a wife. actually, it reminds me of a former sannyasin who called himself enlightend: Mytreya Ishwara... a cooku i knew some time ago.
    however, As I am not enlightened myself i might just not know much about it.
    Buit what I do know is that getting married is the most stupid, unconscious , socialized behaviour that any western man can do.
    It is like trying to cheat on life.
    So, I am curious. I do not think this man is calder... he is way to nice. Buy this time calder had ditched me with insults... so, no i am open to have an informed discussion with Mr.Annonymously " famous" enlightened.
    regards
    anthony

    Reply
: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Feb 23, 2008, 22:21
Calder say something, this page is quiet we want some action here

Reply
    : RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Date: Feb 24, 2008, 10:49
    Annonymosly calder is too chickened now i wonder!! what his new name would be.... ?
    i guess Annonymosly frightenend gooluck , hunt for a new name now, truly waiting for some action .........this page is boring without ur enlightened wordz
    "I M VERY POWERFUL
    U DONT KNO ME
    I'LL DESTRIOY YOU".....QUOTED BY calder
    ahh man we are waiting for some more sermons from your enlightened ASS...OOPS.. Annonymos Ass

    Reply
    : RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Date: Feb 24, 2008, 10:50
    Annonymosly calder is too chickened now i wonder!! what his new name would be.... ?
    i guess Annonymosly frightenend gooluck , hunt for a new name now, truly waiting for some action .........this page is boring without ur enlightened wordz
    "I M VERY POWERFUL
    U DONT KNO ME
    I'LL DESTRIOY YOU".....QUOTED BY calder
    ahh man we are waiting for some more sermons from your enlightened ASS...OOPS.. Annonymos Ass

    Reply
      Anthony Thompson: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
      Date: Feb 24, 2008, 16:27
      I do not subscribe to the way the person who wrote before refers to MR. Calder or the Annonymos Enlightened. I believe that people shoukd take responsability for their actions and posting annonymusly is just a sighn of covardice. I Do not want to have a teenage chat with anyone. Just answering the offer to discuss matters in a serious way. I am waiting for the Annonymosly enlightened. And... no he is not Calder. his synthax and way of phrasing are completely different.
      The guy who called himself annonymous some months ago, in previous mails had a similar synthax and way of arguing to that of Calder.
      Regards
      Anthony

      Reply
        Anonymously Enlightened: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
        Date: Feb 24, 2008, 21:30
        Dear Mr. Thompson,

        I apologize for the delay. I have been researching the "Osho Thing" for the past week.

        When I walked away from the Osho Movement after he died, I did not look back. I have not been following the developments. To offer you an intelligent response, I have been doing research.

        When you wrote, "I think this posts are turninh more and more strange... now we have an anonnimous guy who got enlightened and has a wife... this is really weird. and he is pissed of with the poet guy who writes against calder...very weird."

        Going back and looking at everything again with the new information, I must admit I am feeling strange.

        I see the Osho Movement deteriorating. I do not want to make it worse. Nor do I want to get into the middle.

        Give me a little more time. The worse thing that could happen at this point, is that I find no way to be of any help, and I walk away; and if I do walk away, it will be a dire sign of the Osho situation.

        To me, it is possible that the Osho Movement is an irrecoverable-error.

        L et me just say, that under the circumstances, not just the Osho Movement, that there is the possibility that enlightened people have gone underground.

        When the hawk is circling above the gopher's hole, the gopher is not going to come out.

        I do not think the gopher is a coward. I think it is a sign of intelligence, and that the gopher is not suicidal.

        I can tell you, that I am not here to argue the past. What Osho did or did not do. What he said, or how I interpret what he said.

        The Sannyasin Movement has current problems, that did not exist when Osho was alive. Those are the issues I might find interesting.

        Good luck to both of us.

        Anonymously Enlightened

        Reply
          Anthont Thompson Ph. D.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
          Date: Feb 24, 2008, 22:24
          Sir. My concern is not with the "Osho movement".actually I do not think that there is such thing. Every effort is being made from pune to dismantle any kind of movement, cult, sect or anything remotly like that. There is no more sannyas, no malas( I justcame back from there) ; even osho has been taken away from the center. Just an inspiration. The focus is now in every individual´s process and meditation. There is no devotion of worship of any dead guy.
          I think the move is clever and as someone said.Sannyas might be just an intelligent way of living ones own life... that is all.
          The place as a resort instead of a temple is a magnificent idea. religions and temples have done a lot of damage to people.. I have ever heard of any resort hurting anyone... unless of course, you slip in the swiming pool.
          There is a strong enforcemnt of copyright issues... and I think is related to trying to keep his name and words within this ideas.
          So, actually my aim is to discuss things related to osho and mistanderstandings of facts.
          and actually I got curious about an enlighted person with a wife... with a twist of wittyness.
          regards
          anthony

          Reply
            Time Broussard: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
            Date: Feb 25, 2008, 7:23
            Awesome response, Dr. Thompson. Never thought of the resort in pune that way and what you said about it does make sense. However, what about the inner circle splitting up and feuds amongst the sanyasis? Also, what about some members starting their own commune/ashram and sort of branching out like every religion does? I have always wondered, although since I live in states, can't really tell whats going in in India. What are your views about this?

            Reply
              Anonymously Enlightened: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
              Date: Feb 25, 2008, 14:21
              Dear Mr. Thompson,

              I am sorry I cannot respond today. My tomatoes are ripe, and I must pick them and start processing them for canning.

              Wink, Wink! to my friend.

              Good response though.

              I will talk to you as soon as time permits.

              Anonymously Enlightened

              Reply
                Anonymously Enlightened: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
                Date: Feb 28, 2008, 20:59
                Dear Dr. Thompson,

                First, I want you to know that I do not expect you to agree with me. What is important, for each individual, is that what they are doing - works for them.

                A person is not going to get into any trouble with me. Ideas and actions have problems, when they collide with reality, not with me.

                Second, please keep in mind, that my opinion is about as objective as I think possible, under the circumstances. Remember, that when I give my view, I have no 'axe to grind' and no side to take. My lack of prejudice, in my opinion, comes from the fact, that I have nothing invested in what is happening. Also, I have not known what is going on until last week, so my response is spontaneous.

                I do admit to one prejudice in me, that I am aware of. Being enlightened, I am partial to the enlightened ones. Also, I do have a vested interest in how enlightened people are perceived, and their future and what role, if any, they will play in the society.

                Third, the relationship between the enlightened and the unenlightened is at a historic crossroads. For example, put yourself in my place. After seeing the apathy experienced by J. Krishnamurti and the hatred experienced by Osho, you might be feeling like I do. What, after all is the point of being exposed to all that? What benefit does it produce? An enlightened person would be looking at how other modern enlightened people were treated. They would question the entire relationship between themselves and others. My question, is there any future relationship between enlightened people and the unenlightened? That is the important historic question.

                With those things in mind, I will try to answer, whether or not I disagree with what is currently happening:

                You wrote, "Sir. My concern is not with the "Osho movement".actually I do not think that there is such thing. Every effort is being made from pune to dismantle any kind of movement, cult, sect or anything remotly like that."

                Actually, I know that there is such a thing as the "Osho Movement." This is just basic physics applied to humans. Osho is an organizing principle. An example is that people were organized around him, while he was alive, because of who and what he was.

                Around Osho there is movement, purely from the perspective of physics. Motion is a law of nature. There is clearly movement around Osho. That movement is the "Osho Movement," because he is the organizing principle of that motion.

                Examples; there is the movement of his ideas. There is the movement of his books. There is the movement of people copyrighting those books. There is the movement of people to Poona. There is the movement of people in, out and around various Osho Meditation Centers. There is the movement of Osho on the Internet. There is the movement of people toward sannyas, and people moving away from sannyas. There is the movement of the 'Inner Circle' - away from, of late mostly. There is the movement in court rooms regarding trademarks. There is the movement of revolt and disgust. There are two groups that are moving away from each other. While simultaneously the two groups are moving toward each other in conflict, and many individuals moving in fight. There is the movement of people like Calder, and those around him. Like fundamentalist Christian professors using links to Calder's Website to justify their views and attacks on Osho. There is the movement of Osho's ideas in my head right now. There is the movement of my fingers on the key board creating ideas about Osho, and the movement of my sharing those ideas on this bulletin board. These are just some of the motions, that I have seen, by studying the situation only for the past week.

                You wrote, "Every effort is being made from pune to dismantle any kind of movement, cult, sect or anything remotly like that."

                Let me define politics. Politics is the manipulation of one group by another group. Politics is the manipulation of a group by an individual. Osho was a master at politics. Why is there any surprise that politicking is going on?

                Politics requires strategies and tactics. Denial is a political tactic. Like saying there is no movement. This is not your strategy. I know this does not come from you. I know you are relaying information to me that you have learned.

                I am not attempting to be critical here. I am just trying to be both an educator and a student. But! oh here comes the 'but.' But trying to dismantle something is Movement! It is within the Osho Movement. Now, do not be defensive, and try to explain what you meant. I know the meaning.

                If the intent of the 'Management,' is as you described, then there is no need for copyrights, trademarks and resorts. If you take that to the ultimate conclusion, they are not needed, and in fact create a kind of movement of their own, again, around Osho's name. In fact, it is the above, that is sustaining the movement more than any thing else.

                You wrote, "There is no more sannyas, no malas."

                Ok. That part I agree with, only because I had wished Osho had done three things in 1985. I had hoped that he would drop sannyas, malas and the master/disciple relationship. I do believe he was moving in that direction, but he could not, only because he needed support from sannyasins to survive, and thus compromised the completion of his own work.

                You wrote, "( I just came back from there); even osho has been taken away from the center. Just an inspiration."

                BAD ! I am moving on.

                You wrote, "The focus is now in every individual´s process and meditation. There is no devotion of worship of any dead guy."

                If there is 'No Movement,' then there would be no focus on anything. I doubt that the 'Management Team' has accepted - that they do not need to do anything. That nature will take care. That the Earth is in control here not us. I do not think that they have 'let go' that much.

                Unfortunately, the 'Management Team' will always be at odds with the Indian Sannyasins on this issue. It is their culture. I do not think that being at odds with the Indian Sannyasins' culture is a good political strategy. I just do not think that it will work in the end. The Indian people are enormously patient. They will win in the end. After all, The Resort is an island surrounded by their culture. If they want to put up a picture of a 'dead guy,' why not? I prefer a Monet myself, but if someone offered me a marble statue of Osho, I would display it. I just do not see the harm, unless the harm is to 'Commercial Osho.'

                You wrote, "I think the move is clever and as someone said. Sannyas might be just an intelligent way of living ones own life... that is all."

                You admit that it is a 'move.' Sannyas cannot be an intelligent way of living, if there is no sannyas.

                I know you have expressed that you can give yourself sannyas, someone else can give you sannyas. Just pick out a name from a list. Then, just as easily you can drop sannyas, etc. Just leaving it up to the individual.

                Another point here, because I am anonymous, and have no financial interest in Osho, I do not need to be diplomatic. There is no movement around me. I am no good at politics. In fact, in the end it was the politics, that surrounded Osho, that repelled me away from the Movement.

                You wrote, "The place as a resort instead of a temple is a magnificent idea. religions and temples have done a lot of damage to people.. I have ever heard of any resort hurting anyone... unless of course, you slip in the swiming pool."

                I think the problem with the Poona Resort is in the complexity of its current concept. Its a resort, meditation center, historic site, place of pilgrimage, center of controversy. I think people are confused about what the resort represents.

                You wrote, "There is a strong enforcemnt of copyright issues... and I think is related to trying to keep his name and words within this ideas."

                If there is no movement or cult, then there cannot be any holding onto ideas, especially, by legal means. You do not need to be a genius to figure out fairly soon in studying trademark law, that the word Osho cannot be trademarked. If you want to trademark a 'word,' and you want it to be enforceable, it needs to be a unique made up word, like MedOsho. That is why the 'Management' lost round one of the trademark issue.

                When Jayesh is dead, who will inherit these copyrights? His family members? Will his descendants be the custodians of Osho's copyrights?

                At the end, everyone around Osho was playing politics. That was Osho's game. When he died, in the game of musical chairs, the music stopped. Everyone grabbed for the most desirable position. After Osho died, there were only 21 left in the game. The game went on. The music started and stopped again. You know the game. There were only 20 chairs. When the music stopped, the 21 became 20, and so on. Until, we are now down to five? four? three? two?

                Why? No one within the original 21 had any authority over the others. Authority itself has been derived from financial influence, such as holding trademark and copyrights.

                Enlightenm ent was Osho's authority. He used the intelligence he derived from enlightenment politically to manipulate everyone. He had the authority, because he was better at politics than everyone else.

                Jayesh and Amrito are facing the problem of history. They have already shown that they 'do not care' about what others think of their actions and movements. It is the enlightened ones who will write Osho's epitaph. They will decide if Jayesh and Amrito have acted rightly or wrongly.

                Or, maybe, the enlightened just won't care! That the conversation is over. That it was Jayesh and Amrito who taught the enlightened ones to avoid mankind.

                "Alas! The time is coming when man will no more shoot the arrow of his longing out over mankind, and the string of his bow will have forgotten how to twang!

                "I will not be herdsman or gravedigger. I will not speak again to the people: I have spoken to a dead man for the last time. I will make company with creators, with harvesters, with rejoicers: I will show them the rainbow and the stairway to the Superman...."

                ... .Thus began Zarathustra's down-going. Nietzsche.

                Anonymously Enlightened

                Reply
                  Anthony Thompson: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
                  Email: Athompsonphd@hotmail.com
                  Date: Feb 29, 2008, 4:11
                  Mr. annonymously enlightened.
                  I like the well argued and respectful way to express your ideas. I think we get cought up in semantics when we talk about the movement. Of course that there is central desition making, even if that desition making is to let somethings go... anothers not, like the copyright stuff. However, my appriciation is high for the way things are being done.
                  My stay was in a beautful place, with space for my self, without any enforcing of anything, without any devotion to any figure... and still, having the time and space to listen to one of the wiser and clever perswon I have known.and meet tons of intelligent, loving and open people from all over the world.
                  I do not think the motivation behaind the move is commercial. I know as a fact that they were making much more money with the " sacred place" trip after Osho was dead.
                  I think the move is out of intelligence... In the same way that I know as a fact that noone of the management is making any personal money out of it.
                  regards
                  anthony

                  Reply
Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Feb 25, 2008, 15:58
Mr. Tim. My responses to your questions are mearly as a by standing on looker.
My impression is that in their view what any sannyasisn does or what communes are formed or wether anyone wants to be a devoted worshipper of Osho is not the resort´s concern...actually it is noone concer´s except for the individual involved.
The "inner circle" is no more "the inner circle", but "the manangement team". the idea is to remove any spiritual connotations to what they do. They are just the heads of the departments and the desition makers on mundane affairs and they want to be seen like that.
They have let it all go. they created a web page with sannyas names and quotes of Osho on sannyas and that was it... do you want to be a sannyasin?... go there and pick a name... or invent one yourself, ... or ask your friends. You wannna drop sannyas? groovy, it is none concern... it is only the individual´s concern.
There are no more malas available.. and atthe entrance of what used to be osho´s house there is a huge board with a quote from Osho On" forgetting him anf forgiving him after he is gone"... interesting.
The only point where they are tough is with copyright issues.
I heard stories of brothels in bombay with the name Osho, or massage houses in spain with that name. A guy copying an intire chapter from the book of secrets and then putting his name in it... lots of stories like that.
That is the reason why I think it is higly unlikley that anyone from the resort managemnt will be here writing under the name P.R as annonymosly suggested... they just do not care!!
regards
anthony

Reply
    Tim Broussard: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Date: Feb 25, 2008, 19:00
    Thank you for the answer Dr. Thompson. Just want to ask you out of curiosity, it seems to me that you have studied Osho's work and Osho's life for number of years, how come you're not a sanyassin yourself?
    I hear Osho pretty much every day and eventhough I am not an official sanyassi I so want to be one. I don't meditate though and the idea that I won't be as disciplined about it after the sanyas deters me from being one. How was your experience at the resort in Pune?

    Reply
      Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
      Date: Feb 25, 2008, 20:01
      Tim. It is a question that refers to my private life. I am just not the diciple type( when Osho was alive). and now it just makes no sense to use it as a symbol. althou conceptually I have nothing against it.
      MY experience of the resort in pune has been over the years a refreshing rest from my life and myself. This time, with plenty of space for meditation and celebration.
      A time for me. I am a psychotherapist... among other things. So, to have the possiblity of having time just for myself, to go in and meditate in such an exquisite plece is just a gift.
      regards
      anthony

      Reply
        Balveer: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
        Email: bsikh@yahoo.com
        Date: Feb 29, 2008, 3:56
        Hi Anthony

        I understand what is going on. I have been enlightened my self a few times. I know how it feels like to be enlightened and coming out of it. I can sympathise!!!!

        I have never met Osho (I have regrets for that) but what difference does it make? The actual thing is his work, especially meditation techniques, understanding of human behaviour and consciousness and his message (depends if you can get it).

        I have applied his techniques to myself, which also helped me come out of my enlightenment phase, and they work.

        I have been researching consciousness and mindfulness psychology, and I can say what Osho has contributed, although unappreciated by theorists in the field, is matchless.

        The more I want to say, the more I don’t want to say it. I am regretting writing it but can’t stop because you deserve it.

        Rejoice!!

        Balve er


        Reply
          Anthony Thompson: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
          Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
          Date: Feb 29, 2008, 4:15
          Balveer. If you are interested in finding out about a a well researched book on osho{s contribution to western psychology check Vikrant A. Sentis book " De Esalen Poona. Osho y el camino de la psicologia humanista transpersonal". It is in spanish thou...
          regards
          anthony

          Reply
Anonymously Enlightened: Vivek
Date: Feb 29, 2008, 17:02
Dear Dr. Thompson,

Thank you for the compliment.

I do believe that Osho had many admirable qualities.

I think he is important, to the enlightened, not for his successes, but rather his failures. We seem to learn from our failures more than our successes. What I have taken away from Osho's life were the lessons, that I have learned from his failure. Knowing what did not work for him has helped me to avoid repeating his mistakes.

When Osho began playing the role of the enlightened guru, he began deriving an income from that. Of course, that provided money for his most basic needs.

Even by today's standards, you know this, that as a psychotherapist, it would be inappropriate to have sex with your patients. Essentially, Osho was having sex with his patients.

Osho was totally bias in his concept of the master/disciple relationship, because that is where he got his food, clothing, shelter, sex, health care, transportation and attention from others, etc.

He could not admit to himself for one moment that J. Krishnamurti was right. I have always contended that the master/disciple relationship was a relationship created out of the imaginations of the enlightened ones.

Osho was a great politician, but he was absolutely a failure at personal relationships. Vivek is the elephant in the room. Vivek is Osho's Monica Lewinski.

Vivek committed suicide, because Osho did not have a clue on how to satisfy a woman, let alone how to make one enlightened.

Here is my main argument: I became enlightened as an act of nature. Any details I give on how I became enlightened would be speculation. I studied Osho, and other enlightened persons, to try to understand my own enlightenment. Seeing, from history, that enlightenment is sold as the answer to all mankind's problems, I also thought it was the solution to all of mankind's problems. Now, if you are enlightened, this appeals to the ego, because now I am the solution to all of mankind's problems. Now, I have only two problems, getting people to understand - which they never do, and making others enlightened too. Then, all of the world's problems would be solved.

With this information, an enlightened person, like myself, Buddha, Osho or J. Krishnamurti, would go about trying to make others enlightened. It was not an experiment. It was an absolute truth. I read Osho's "God is Dead, Now Zen is the Only Living Truth" yesterday. In it Osho seems to be a fanatic about believing the master/disciple relationship will make others enlightened. Like he always did, he used examples from history showing masters making disciples enlightened.

In Osho's book, he seems to be unconsciously worried about his own sanity. He talks about removing God, but says that is what drove Nietzsche mad. That the idea of God is necessary to keep people from going insane, but that Osho himself was going to promote the idea that God is dead. He then says you will not go insane, because I give you Zen.

If you, Dr., followed Osho, you know he changed philosophies like he changed his cloths. Why? He also changed his therapies, meditations and master/disciple strategies, like giving and taking away mala and brightly colored cloths, etc.

Being a psychotherapist yourself, you know how devastating changing therapies on a patient would be. If I were the patient, I would be thinking this guy has no idea how to help me with my problems, so he keeps changing.

Back to the elephant in the room, Vivek.

I accidentally came across this passage, yesterday.

"God is Dead, Now Zen is the Only Living Truth"

Chapter 3
God Is Just Like Tomorrow
February 8, 1989 p.m.
in Gautam the Buddha Auditorium

"Just today I have received information that in Europe there is now a great New Age movement for finding your soul mate. In their pamphlet they mention my name, because once I told you you cannot find your soul mate. It is a big world, and I don't think God creates soul mates, or existence creates soul mates. Where are you going to find each other? People find each other just in their neighborhood, or in their college. How is existence going to manage to put you and your soul mate in the same college? So that pamphlet condemns me because I am not saying the right thing: everybody has a soul mate. That is a good consolation; but just look at those who have found their soul mates...

"Here is Zareen. She had found a soul mate, and since she has found the soul mate I have never seen her as happy as she was before. And I know her soul mate. He keeps himself locked in his room, because he wants, poor fellow, some time to himself. But Zareen is not going to let him be alone -- you have to be careful when you have found your soul mate -- so she goes on knocking on his door. She jumps balconies to reach the poor fellow. And not to make a fuss -- "Everybody will know" -- he has to open the door. And then the meeting of the soul mates begins. Both are miserable since they have met.

"Anando was telling me, because I was asking her why Zareen does not look as happy as she used to. She said, "She has found a soul mate." I said, "She should be more happy. If the soul mate is not right, bring a group of sannyasins and put them in a queue before Zareen -- 'Choose your soul mate!'

"And you can change every day. Why get bored with one? Just the same sari, the same sari... One gets bored, that is absolutely natural. All soul mates create boredom and nothing else.

"And here in this place where freedom is the absolutely total value, ultimate value, where change is accepted as life's way, why should you bother about one soul mate when there are so many soul mates available? Just go on changing, and life will be a joy. And Zareen will again be laughing and smiling. Because of this soul mate she has become hard and dictatorial at the gate. On whom to take revenge because the soul mate always goes to Bombay? And I know why he goes to Bombay -- just to have a little freedom.

"Unneces sary misery."

I believe, at one time, Vivek and Osho were lovers. Vivek is listening to Osho say the above things, and she knows, and everyone in the audience knows, that Osho is talking about her.

Where is his understanding of Vivek's feelings. He shattered her self-esteem. When I told this story to my wife, you should have seen the look on her face. Her sympathy for Vivek, and her understanding of her own feelings as a woman, made her immediately recognize how destructive this was to Vivek. Within ten months, Vivek committed suicide. At the time, it was said, heroin overdose. It was also said that Vivek had been a heroin addict before she met Osho. At the time of her death, she had returned to her habit. I probably got that information from the "Rajneesh Times." You understand, that this was the story at the time of her death. Now, I hear that it has changed. Now, it has been officially down graded to a sleeping pill overdose.

My best guess was that it was a heroin overdose, as she would have known that heroin would have numbed her pain.

It appears that Osho was angry at Vivek for committing suicide, because he did not order the celebration of her death, because it was untimely. Not only was it untimely, it was a down right embarrassment to Osho. Now, it is still an embarrassment to Amrito and Jayesh.

Why? Because Osho could not even cure Vivek of her heroin habit, let alone make her enlightened. If anyone was destined to become enlightened through Osho's efforts, it should have been Vivek, because of their closeness.

i.m.o.: I think Vivek failed to accept that Osho was never going to be close to her. Why? Osho was never going to be close to anyone. He thought everyone was below him. Not of his calibre, as he was fond of saying.

Why should have Osho taken more responsibility? He told Vivek that they were boyfriend and girlfriend, when Osho was seventeen. Her name was Sashi, but she died, and Vivek was her reincarnation.

That creates a certain level of expectation in a woman, don't you think?

She must have felt quite used by him. After they had sex, he must have been quite cavalier. He seemed to have treated her continuously like she was his caretaker, only. While at the same time, leading her on that she was his girlfriend.

The lesson that I have come away from Osho is that no one around him became enlightened. Certainly, if there had, things would not have deteriorated, and Vivek would not have committed suicide. As I am sure, she internalized that as one of her many failures.

You can clearly see he projected his failure for not making Vivek enlightened onto Vivek, and that is also a part of the reason she committed suicide.

The reason Osho could not admit that he was wrong, is because he staked everything on this single premise: That I am enlightened, therefore you can become enlightened. That the way to enlightenment was through the master/disciple relationship and meditation.

Now, it is 18 years after Osho's death. If even one person had become enlightened while Osho was alive, that person would have been his successor, but there was no one, so he created the 'Inner Circle.' Which has turned out to be another one of Osho's failures.

The reason that all this is important to me - is that it is a reality check on my own beliefs and behaviors. Even when one becomes enlightened, one needs a role model. I am interested in where Osho failed, so that I do not make the same mistakes.

Thank you for listening,

Anonymously Enlightened

Reply
    anthony thompson: RE:Vivek
    Date: Feb 29, 2008, 19:07
    Well there is so much speculation in your new reply that i do not know from where to start.
    What you say about his relationship with vivek is just imagination. No one, and I mean noone, knows what went on there. osho never had a relationship with anyone. if they fuck I do not know... but she was a caretaker , not a lover. why she died none knows. the story of the heroin is just your imagination. Vivek was maniac depresive for years. She had to take medicine all the time.
    regarding the master diciple relationshp. Oshos work would have not been so successfull if he had not have disciples. See krishnamurtui´s work, just surrounded by intelectuals. Osho has helped thousands of people to be freer, happier, more loving, centerd, etc. no one can make enlightened... osho was very clar on that.
    regards anthony

    Reply
    judy: RE:Vivek
    Email: enjoyingthis@hotmail.com
    Date: Mar 1, 2008, 13:11

    Anonymously Enlightened - well of course you are dear boy - well of course you are

    Reply
      anthony thompson: RE:Vivek
      Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
      Date: Mar 1, 2008, 13:36
      Yes, I would like to add something else. I do not know how long you were a sannyasin Mr. enlightened, but to me it looks like you were not really part of the whole trip. Freedom from relationship bondage was one of the features that Osho was promoting around himself. Just an understanding that what we call romantic- love is an umbrella where tons of neurotic behaviours can hide. The quote you present as so desrespectful to Vivek, who then was called nirvano is just an example of his vision. he was not talking about vivek, that is your speculation. Vivek was jayesh´s girlfriend at that time. and in fact She had had stable relationships with men since 1977.
      She was not osho´s wife. Osho said once asked why he did not have a romantic relantionship and he answered that you stabish relationships because you feel that emotionally your are not enough to yourself and you "need" someone to be there for you.
      He said: I just love whatever comes in front of me, it is not my choice. and I do not need to have a special someone to fufill my emotional needs".
      Yes, I think you are a dear boy... your wife must be very happy with you.
      althou I think that whatever state you call enlightenment is certainly not what has been decribed by literature and masters down the ages.... but that is matter of another dicussion.
      regards
      anthony



















      A nthony

      Reply
        Balveer: RE:Vivek
        Email: bsikh@yahoo.com
        Date: Mar 2, 2008, 22:43
        Hi there

        I would like to contribute here. I read an interview by Vivek ( found through google search), which was given for ( I think) Osho Times. She talked about how beautiful it was to lie next to sleeping Osho, as well as Osho telling her aobut their past lives after Maunt Abu (Rajasthan) camp.

        Annonymus, it all depends upon the undertanding between them, and you have not mentioned anything of that nature. You have made some speculations about the nature of relationship and drawn some conclusions.

        I am curious to know more about Osho's relationship with his desciples, and nature of those relationships?

        However , the language you are using suggests that you have a poor understanding of enlightenment ( as far as I understand Indian Darshan (philosophy). It says a lot about your claim of being enlightened! No one can make anyone enlightened (Osho made it clear several times). Even Buddha could not make Ananda, his brother and desciple of 42 years enlightened??

        Anthony, thanks for suggesting that book, wish it was in english!

        Balveer

        Reply
    phoeniX: RE:Vivek
    Date: Mar 14, 2008, 10:52
    @Anonymously Enlightened

    You said you are Enlightened. So I just thought that i'll ask you a few questions. Other than extinction of your desires, suffering and individual consciousness, have you achieved anything else? Its not a big deal for me or anyone to understand these and break free. What I thought was to be enlightened was to know a higher truth like the truth of being/becoming. Tell us something that we dont know. Further I care the least about what Osho did. His contribution was a unique prespective on things already known. He just insisted there is a different way of looking at things. But leaving all the religious gurus (I am sure we've had enough) and their teachings aside, AE just can you put it in simple sentences what else you have realized after your Enlightenment that normal people like me do not know? If its not explainable in simple terms, then its not worth it.

    Reply
ashvini yadav: plz
Email: ashviniyadav@yahoo.com
Date: Mar 7, 2008, 9:21
i'm researcher in rajasthan university,jaipur. i work on osho's educational thoughts. i found somthing , i read somthing. but i inrasted in somthing.

Reply
    : RE:plz
    Date: Mar 12, 2008, 3:50
    what now, this thread going to die?

    Reply
      Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:plz
      Date: Mar 12, 2008, 13:39
      well, anonymously enlightened never answered back. the reseacher guy from india does not write in English, Mr Calder sighned out, Mr. bernstein also desapeared...
      and the poet P. R. was finally admitted to a ward.

      it looks like there is no more juice!
      regards
      anthony

      Reply
        Balveer: RE:plz
        Email: bsikh@yahoo.com
        Date: Mar 12, 2008, 23:47
        Hi Anthony

        I think the questions related to Osho's relationship with sanyasins (his disciples) still remain to be understood.

        I have not seen any of Osho sanyasins addressing this issue, which was raised by Calder and Annonymus. May be it was not therapist-client relationship and the ethics related to those relations does not apply but even Guru-Shisya (chela or disciple) relationship had certain ethics?

        could you please comment?

        Balveer



        Reply
          Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:plz
          Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
          Date: Mar 13, 2008, 12:57
          certainly.
          But I can not adress this issue before adressing the concept of ethicts, and osho´s vision of the subject.
          There is no such thing as universal ethics. Ethics is basically a standarized human agreement. This means a behaviour agreement decided by a group of people within certain historical context.
          Osho did not subscriobed to any" behaviour agreement" besides his own consciousness and understanding. He said many times that he was completly amoral. that meant that he did not recognized any authority outside himself as far as his behaviour was concerned. So if we want to judge him we have to do it within his own parameters. we can not aplly or demand him to use a parameter other than the one he subscribed.
          Within this context he was asked once about relationship with him as a human being and he was very clear that he did not have any personal relationship with anyone. he even advised not to greet him or talk to him if anyone found him in the garden ( pune early times).
          He had people who were closer to him, but none of them could claim to have a "personal" relationship whith him. The man was alone in his room most of the time doing nothing... just sitting in a chair.
          Vivek, amrito, devageet and anando saw him just when they were called.
          If he had sex in the early times he could only have sex with people who were close to him. that meant his disciples.he never went to a pub or to a social meeting.
          Now , this may be viewed as inmoral, but the man was not bounded by any morals but his own. and within this context he regarded disciples not as followers but as indipendent self-responsible individuals.
          he insisted many times that sannyas was not about giving up your power to him. and that he was noone`s leader.
          So, whom he chose to be with was a matter of whoever agreed to do so... he did not regarded master-disciple relationship as a power relationship. That was his parameter.wether someone agrees with that or not, according to osho, that is that person`s problem. he lived by his own standards... and even that he was not willing to be bounded for. he said: "I am completly free to be funny, shocking... or whatvere i want. I do not belong to any party line. I do not even care about contradicting myself"(osho, the last testament.)
          Regards
          anthony

          Reply
            Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:plz
            Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
            Date: Mar 13, 2008, 13:28
            one last point I would like to address regarding Osho"living out"of his disciples.
            Actually, I would say that the contray was the case. There were hundreds of disciples who were living out of osho´s world. They got support, clothing, even cash money for living and working in the commune.
            osho could have survived even alone with a secretary. Thousands of people flocked to see him ( and pay the fee to do so) any were he was. the money, the big money needed around him was not needed to support him, but to support the commune, the bulding projects and the hundreds of people living and working there.
            osho could have done it very well as a public speaker on his own... probably better than Al Gore.
            regards anthony

            Reply
            Balveer: RE:plz
            Email: bsikh@yahoo.com
            Date: Mar 14, 2008, 0:59
            Thanks Anthony

            Very helpful! It helps me to be more understanding! I must admit, when I read Calder's web page, I was disturbed for few days. I think, during the same time I met an woman, who was in Osho's company in 60s. She showed me the book that Calder published. A sense of failure descended upon me.

            Then, I stumbled upon this debate. It has helped me to better understand myself. In a sense, it has made me more liberated. I have to let go of him!!!!!!!!! I am not sure if I am making my process clear? Anyway, thank you for facilitating this understanding and being part of my journey.

            Regards

            Ba lveer


            Reply
              Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:plz
              Date: Mar 14, 2008, 14:14
              Balveer. regarding calder´s article. Most of the events he narrates happened when he was not a 1000 miles near Osho. calder was a disciple close to osho, as many other people, during the time he lived in Bombay, when Osho moved to pune in 1974 calder was not part of the ashram. he visited a couple of times, but he was not part of any inner circle.Si all the stories are supossitions from him, gathered from otrher peopl?©s books and artciles written by a USA newspaper called the Oregonian. I personmally interviwed a lot of people directly involved in calder allegations and they say he lies. Now I was not there, so I can not say what is the truth. But theseare the facts.
              Calder helped editing two books"the silent explosion" and "I am the gate".
              That is the story.
              My personal experience of Osho, also contradicts Calder, but I was also not ainner circle person.
              regards
              anthony

              Reply
                sahyo: RE:plz
                Date: Mar 14, 2008, 22:08
                is nice reading the honest unbiased posts you post, anthony

                there hasn't been any people, on the forums i post on, which have discuss this which such clearity

                when have posted quoting osho, most the responses are very judging, very aggressive

                Reply
                  sahyo: RE:plz
                  Date: Mar 14, 2008, 22:16
                  * clarity



                  Reply
        sahyo: RE:plz
        Date: Mar 14, 2008, 21:51
        hahahahahahahahahaaaaa


        :D

        Reply
          : RE:plz
          Date: Mar 14, 2008, 22:02
          what's funny sahyo

          Reply
            sahyo: RE:plz
            Date: Mar 14, 2008, 22:12
            :) this:

            "poet P. R. was finally admitted to a ward."




            Reply
: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Mar 14, 2008, 22:13
I don't think this thread can ever die

Reply
: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Mar 14, 2008, 22:33
Sahyo,
I actually was taking that seriously and checked out the entire thread to see where he/she stopped messaging cause he/she has been there from the very begining of the thread.

Reply
: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Mar 14, 2008, 22:35
Sahyo, what other forums do you post on?

Reply
: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Mar 14, 2008, 22:36
Anthony rocks!

Reply
    Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
    Date: Mar 14, 2008, 22:58
    This message is for balveer. check my entire response to Calder at:
    http://www.fillmash. com/christopher-calder-ma n-who-lies-about-osho
    Type this without the spaces in between that appear in this forum.
    for the others... thanks for the compliments
    regards
    anthony

    Reply
amble: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: amble84@hotmail.com
Date: Mar 18, 2008, 21:36
The responses of those defending OSHO only confirm what I feared: that his followers are bitter, ego-driven, illogical, smug, and desperately seeking a divine father figure -- just like those described in the book "The Golden Guru". They are to Buddha what first year college students are to Socrates -- opionated and strident, with nothing to back at up but pseudo-spiritual attacks on those who disagree.
In particular, the person claiming enlightenment only proves Calder's theory -- which is that it's merely a trick of the brain and certainly doesn't translate to real world intelligence. In this case, in fact, it may be manifesting itself as something akin to complete retardation.
Of course you can always hide behind the claim that we--the unelightened masses--just don't get it. What a paltry defense of a wasted opportunity.


Reply
    Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
    Date: Mar 19, 2008, 2:37
    I am always wandering what are intellingent, self suifficient,educated, evolved and well read people like you doing reading and writing posts in "Cults" sites like this one, specially answering people who are "bitter, ego-driven, illogical, smug, and desperately seeking a divine father figure ". I am preety sure you have something better to do. Please! Unless, of course, you feel personaly threatened by what you read.
    Regards
    anthony

    Reply
      Anonymously Enlightened: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      Date: Mar 19, 2008, 18:55
      Dear Dr. Thompson,

      First, I would like to say thank you, Amble, for your comments.

      Dr. Thompson, your belief system mirrors the policies of the Osho Resort in Poona. That makes you appear to be a paid lobbyist for that Resort. I did not say you were a paid lobbyist. I cannot know. I do not write your checks. I said you appeared to be a paid lobbyist.

      I did a little research by typing your name into Google. It appears that wherever Calder writes on the internet, you are there to oppose him with your views. You must have a lot of free time to do that, or is it 'paid time?'

      What you have, and what you are offering, is a belief system based on the policies of Jayesh and Amrito, alone. There are many differing views from many sources.

      Neelam's and Keerti's ideas about the direction of the Osho Movement are opposite that of all your ideas, and that of Jayesh and Amrito.

      http://www.red iff.com/us/2000/jun/22us1 .htm

      My perspective is that Neelam and Keerti are giants for choosing a path, which opens Osho to more people. Their view is free, while your view and that of Jayesh and Amrito are restrictive.

      You have setup the perfect scenario for a classic fight of good verses evil. Your side being the evil side.

      I do not hear of Jayesh or Amrito being band from anywhere. What I do see is Amrito and Jayesh banning people, sannyasins and members of the Inner Circle from entering the Osho Poona Resort. No where on the Resort's name do I see the name Jayesh and Amrito.

      I do not agree with the hoarding of copyrights by Jayesh and company. There is no solid foundation for doing this.

      I also do not believe cornering the market by insisting on unfair trademarks is anything but dictatorial.

      Since you represent a belief system that is political, and which asserts itself as the sole interpreter of Osho, and the direction of his Movement, that makes you the representative of a cult, the Jayesh and Amrito Cult.

      I knew from past experience that my presents here would be treated with hostility. Therefore, I chose as my opening letter, addressed to the sannyasins, at the top of this thread, a push back, as your opposition had been expected.

      History shows the destruction of every enlightened person's work, because they are turned into businesses. That is exactly what your group is doing.

      Then you, Jayesh and Amrito declare yourselves the sole interpreter of everything Osho, and everyone else must follow or be banned from the Poona Osho Resort.

      Ultimately, the Jayesh and Amrito Cult will fail, because you represent the very thing Osho taught his people to rebel against. Jayesh and Amrito have no authority to make any decisions pertaining to the lives of others. They have used financial influence, not persuasion, to take control.

      They are doing this, because they have something to hide. For example, I have read that Osho's videos are being edited with the beginnings and the endings removed. Why? because that is where Vivek appears. Cut out the beginnings and the endings, and you have removed Vivek from history.

      Fuck you - and fuck Jayesh - and fuck Amrito - for erasing the life of a soul. Just snuff her out like in a smut film. Metaphorically, they have raped her, now they are murdering her. You fucking bastards.

      Oh yes! Amrito was fucking Vivek before Jayesh was.

      Your defense is paltry, because it is one sided. You only say positive things about Osho. That shows extreme bias, the kind that can only be purchased.

      It is obvious, that when enlightened people, like Osho or myself, are isolated with their own imaginations, we are subject to gross error. These errors can only be corrected through learning and knowing Osho's mistakes.

      Enlightened people can no longer function in a vacuum. As a result of the failures of Osho, I am proposing the formation of the Council of the Enlightened. The purpose of the proposed Council would be to review such mistakes, and take corrective actions. No one person, enlightened or not, has the mental capacity to see all aspects of reality. The purpose of the Council of the Enlightened would be to work together, question each other's assertions, and decide these types of matters as a group.

      Thank you again, Amble, for your comments.

      Anonymously Enlightened

      Reply
        Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
        Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
        Date: Mar 19, 2008, 19:55
        Dear mr. enlightened. I am amused at your remark of my being a paid lobbist for the resort.
        i am sorry but I am an independent observer... but that does not mean i do not agree with the policies regarding the resort. Not because I am payed, but because they agree with me... not otherwise.
        I do not , nor have ever, agreed with the banning policy.which neelam and kirty had absoluitely no problem applying when they were in power. i do not agree with neelam´s and kirty´s devotional approach to osho, becasue I think it sets up the basis for a cult... and I am not very devotional myself. i do not agree with everything that osho said and did, but I have never discussed that because my primary intention is to refute lies or misunderstanding not to create a philosophical debate.
        i do not know if you are enlightened, more over I do notcare... however i would not insult you the way you do it. Insulting just shows lack of arguments and being touched to the bone... which is not something i know enlightened people could do.
        Your ignorance is supreeme and just show that your way of gathering information is just second, second, hand. The editing of osho´s discourses was never to remove vivek, in fact she does not appear in the discourses from 1987 on which are the ones edited, but because they show them in the evening meeting meditation atthe resort and they are trying not to make it that long. If fact most of them are shown in two parts. The comming and going with OSHO dancing and greeting took aproximatelay 20 minutes... too long to view. People were comming too tyred and late after the meeting. And many were just not comming.
        so your vivek fantasy just shows lack of information... and a bit of paranoia, i would say... perhaps that is the 11th myth: the enlightened people can not be paranoid.

        Finally I have fought Calder averywhere I can because when I first read his article 8 years ago I thought: This guy is twisting the facts, and misquoting, but who cares. Nowadays he is quoted as an expert. I admire osho and his work and I consider it a personal duty to refute the misunderstandings or the plain lies.
        and yes, I have a lot of spare time. I just work very little and charge a lot.
        No need to insult me. I would like to keep his discussion an educated informed one.

        Regards
        anthony

        Reply
          Balveer: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
          Date: Mar 20, 2008, 2:08
          Well said Anthony!

          Enlightened one, you seem to be bitter about how Osho resort is bing run. I hear lots of personal stuff in your commets about some members of the management there. Have you missed out on some thing? If you think I am wrong, then tell me how you support Neelam and Keerty? I visited Commune in 1993, when Neelam was in charge. It was already looking like an established religion or cult then. The recent changes are admirable because they have courage to change things with time, just what osho would have done. Neelam and Keerty are doing what has always been done in India, get attached to the guru and let go the message.

          I am sure you are intelligent person but your argument are so paradoxical that you start to sound absurd. Any why swear at anyone? Anthony is right, you have run out of ideas and patience. Is it because of your enlightenment? Or you expect us to accept you unconditionally and when we dont you throw these tentrums?

          I admire Anthony for replying to Calder. If you want balanaced view, Anthony is the one balancing it.

          Balveer

          Reply
: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Mar 23, 2008, 3:29
CHRISTOPHER CALDER, KRISHNA CHRIST AND HIS LYING OR MISINFORMED "LOST TRUTH".

A response to Mr. Calder´s �Osho, Bhagwan Rajneesh and the Lost Truth�

By Anthony Thompson Ph. D.

*English is not my first language, so forgive my misspellings and grammatical mistakes.

Mr calder, according to his own information, became a disciple of Osho back in 1970`s during the time that Osho resided in Woodlands apartments in Mumbai, then Bombay. He came to India in November 19 1970. Osho gave him the name of Sw. Krishna Christ �I was Rajneesh's second Western sannyasin just behind Ma Yoga Prem. Check out a first addition copy of "The Silent Explosion." I came up with the title and wrote the introduction. My sannyasin name was Swami Krishna Christ.�( Calder 2006). He did not particularly appreciate the name and he complained to Osho about it. Here he is an excerpt from a letter from Osho to Sw Krishna Christ, in answer to his complaint about the name, reproduced from �A Cup of Tea� (letter 327):
The ego is the seriousness, the disease,
and the tao, the egoless existence,
is the bliss, the ecstasy.
That is why I have given you a name so absurd!
But I have given it to you knowingly.
I have given it to you so that you may
never be identified with it.
The name is so absurd
that you will have to remain
nameless and nobody behind it,
and the name is such that
not only others but you yourself
will be able to laugh at it.
Swami Krishna Christ!

His name then was Walter Pfuetze. In 1971 his adopted father took a group of students to Woodlands Building in Bombay and met Achayra Rajneesh face to face. That is why his name was listed in early books as Swami Krishna Christ, aka "Walter Pfuetze." He changed his name in 1976 to Christopher Calder because he did not like German names. Besides he was British and was interested in the artist Alexander Calder.
Somewhere along the way he got disillusioned and disappointed with Osho and wrote a fiery article against him.
Mr. Calder is entitled to have and state his own personal opinions or beliefs regarding Osho, his teachings and vision. As far as I know, Mr. Calder is a �simple student of meditation�, as he likes to call himself, and has no formal training in neuropsychology or neurophysiology. Therefore, his knowledge on the neurological functions of meditation, weather it’s biologically or spiritually based, he got from books, magazines, or in the worst case, internet. I do not have information of his being part not any neurological research team or his having taken part of any field study about this subject. Personally I do not have more scientific knowledge of his affirmations than any normal �student of meditation�, however, some ideas fit with my personal experience. And I consider some ideas expressed by Mr. Calder to be brilliant. As I am not a neurologist either, I will not discuss such matters. And I will not discuss this because disagreeing or not on these points is not the matter of this article, but the misinformation and lies that he states in his article �Osho, Bhagwan Rajneesh, and the Lost Truth�, which are indeed matter of further consideration on my part.

Mr. Calder gives the idea of his being an intimate disciple. However, No inner circle disciple from 1975 on had heard his name or remembers him from that time. This gives me the idea that he might have seen Osho personally during the time in the woodlands apartments, as many people did, but not after that, which is when the issues he discuss in his article supposedly happened. Therefore he is not an eyewitness to such events.

I do not agree or like everything that Osho said or did in his life. I am aware that the man did not compromise in any point and he did what he considered appropriate for him to do, and did not care about what people thought of him. I also know that most of the time it was �his way or the highway� with the people around him and his ideas of how things had to be done. However, as a researcher of his work, I feel compelled to clarify and refute the points and arguments used in Mr. Calder’s article that I think are simply not true or highly misinformed.

I am not a disciple and I do not consider Osho my master, but I can not hide my admiration for the old man. I think his contribution to expanding human awareness has no parallel in human history. There have been other masters, but no one has been so effective in reaching so many people during his lifetime as Osho did. Also, his insistence on laughter, enjoying life and humor as religious qualities makes him stand alone in the world of mystics. Finally, he helped to liberate, sexually and from social conditioning vast quantities of spiritual seekers that would have, otherwise, ended up ranking with some ascetic, repressive guru, and thus contributing with more repression and self-torture to this world.

I have researched on this subject for over 22 years now and I have interviewed a lot of current and former disciples, visitors and friends on this subject. I have been 8 times in his commune in India, now called Osho meditation resort. So, I consider myself an expert on this theme: Osho´s life and work.

Osho´s sayings

Mr. Calder quotes Osho on several occasions. The way he does this is malicious and clearly his intention is not that of an expert detached observer, but that of a resentful lover. His intention is to create an image of Osho that becomes a pass way for his own feelings of anger and hurt.
To be hurt or angry is Mr. Calder´s prerogative. However, to twist facts, quotes and ideas to spread the understanding that we are facing an evil character is just a manipulative and indirect way of giving an outlet to his own personal vendetta.

In my understanding it is utterly nonsense to pick up a few statements from Osho's more than 8500 hours of talks and evaluate him based on that. I can’t believe that a person like him, who claims to know him since ages, can do it. And a funny thing is, Osho himself never denied being contradictory, on a contrary he glorified it. So, to this day to take a quote from osho means nothing in itself. You can get the man to advice you on gardening, wall papers or sex. Out of a whole chapter reference a quote means nothing.
He quotes (without a direct book or chapter reference) that Osho loved Hitler. I have searched the entire library of his talks and that quote is nowhere to be found. Supposedly he took this quote from the discourses �I am the gate�. And certainly Mr. Calder appears as one of the editors of the first edition. No where he said �I loved Hitler�. What he says is something that is of public domain, and that is that Hitler had an alliance with Tibetan esoteric groups. In fact the Tibetans supported the third Reich. Where do we think "the swastika" came from? It is an old esoteric symbol used both by Jains and Tibetans. The Nazis just turned it around.

The only thing that I have found is an interview in Der Spiegel. I have seen the video (The last testament, july 19, 1985), and Osho says to both journalists, Erick Widdeman and Reiner Weber, when he is asked about Hitler �I love the Man. He was Crazy�, jokingly to see their reactions. To what both German journalist look shocked. Later he adds that �he considers the man to be completely immoral and a murderer�, and he compares him with mahatma Gandhi. Not to speak positive about Hitler, but to show how immoral mahatma Gandhi was, in his view, for being against technology in a poor country like India and preaching celibacy and self-torture. Now, the article in Der Spiegel, edited of course, show Osho comparing Hitler and Gandhi as saying both were great men. "Hitler was like Gandhi" can be read as the article heading. This is the way how things are distorted by the yellow press.

I have found some other quotes about Hitler and Gandhi and his arguments about it
"Just think: if Adolph Hitler had been a cripple or had amoebas or was continuously getting hepatitis, the world would have been saved. In fact, Adolph Hitler was against smoking, against alcohol. He was a pure vegetarian like Mahatma Gandhi. In fact, both men have many things in common. Both believed in going early to bed and both believed in getting up early in the morning. Both believed that vegetarian food is great. Both believed that smoking is bad, alcohol is bad. Both were great saints! Both were equally dangerous and psychopathic. The only difference was that Mahatma Gandhi had the Jaina characteristic very much developed in him -- he was only ten percent Hindu, ninety percent Jaina -- so he tortured himself. Adolph Hitler had the Mohammedan characteristic developed in him: he tortured others, he didn't torture himself. But both tortured. Whom they tortured is not of that much significance. They both were enjoying torture. ... "(1980, Zen: Zest, Zip, Zap and Zing)

To torture oneself or to torture others, both are diseases -- the very idea to torture. Somebody is an Adolph Hitler, he tortures others; somebody is a Mahatma Gandhi, he tortures himself. Both are in the same boat -- maybe standing back to back, but standing in the same boat. Adolph Hitler's joy is in torturing others, Mahatma Gandhi's joy is in torturing himself, but both are violent. The logic is the same -- their joy depends on torture. Their direction is different, but the direction is not the question, their mind has the same attitude: torture. You respect a person who tortures himself because you don't understand the logic of it. Adolph Hitler is condemned all over the world and Gandhi is worshipped all over the world, and I am simply puzzled. How is it possible? -- because the logic is the same. (1977, Tao: The Pathless Path)

In addition, there are of course innumerable times where Osho describes Hitler as a pygmy, as occupying the lowest rank a human being can sink to, etc.
Misquoting Osho, or quoting him out of context, is one of the favorite and most despicable pastimes of Mr. Calder.

A quote of two lines means nothing out of a context nowadays. As an example: Osho said �esoteric means bullshit� from the talks �From Bondage to freedom� in 1985. And �everything that is valuable is esoteric� from the talks �Beyond psychology� in 1986.
Osho himself once said �You need not agree with what I say; you can only agree with me directly. There is no need to come through what I say. I say a thousand and one things and I contradict myself everyday. If you start agreeing with me you will go mad! You can’t agree; nobody can’t agree with a what I say . You can only agree with a few points but those will not be all that I say. Contradiction is my method. I go on shattering. I go on shocking, offending people; that is may method, to shatter people’s beliefs� (Osho, 1980, The Open Secret).

Therefore, I think Osho´s words need to be taken not as a comprehensive philosophy, but rather as a seductive invitation to self-explore and understand the nature of mind, body, emotions, and the role of meditation in this search.
Besides, the discourses were given many times as responses to individuals, and in several occasions he was answering not only the question but the questioner himself/herself. I can remember his speaking against the women’s lib movement to a radical feminist and then saying the exact opposite to male chauvinist south American. Or talking about god to an atheist and then saying it was a lie to a catholic priest. ("The ultimate risk", 1980 by Satya Bharti)

The �Cult� Story
Also, Mr. Calder speaks of the sannyas movement referring to it as a �cult�. I do not agree with his statements of Osho´s movement being a cult. This is why: Some of the pre-requisites to have a cult is to have systematic body or set of beliefs. A complete belief system that explains everything in terms of itself. As Mr. Calder’s knows, and has consistently argued so, Osho contradicted himself a lot. It is practically impossible to create a cult out of his words. The only consistent idea in his talks is that of awareness and meditation. The rest is simply not systematic enough to do anything with it. If you are going to join a sect, you need to have something to believe...some promise of paradise or future enlightenment. You don’t join a sect that tells you that �you are already a Buddha, enlightened� (from �The heart sutra�) and that you just �need to come back home. However you are, you are beautiful the way your are� (from �The Goose is Out�).

My understanding is that Osho´s work was mainly deprogramming people against their self constructed ideas about love, spirituality, growth, relationships, etc. In fact if you want you can find statements where he speaks of karma and reincarnation and then another statement where he says there is no soul, no reincarnation (see �Reincarnation a Misconception� discourse given in 1989) , and that karma is just a way of social control. He speaks of god and then says there is no such a thing and it is just a� teddy bear� for fearful people.

Second, you need rituals that people, old and new, can join to. And nowadays there is nothing like that. Even the celebration of his death and birthday, and his pictures, or the �sannyas giving� have been removed as official celebrations in the Osho resort in India. Anyone can go there and verify and see if there is any �blind cult� happening.

Third, a cult does not admit dissent, and Mr. Calder and I have been writing and discussing in a sannyas owned website and the quotes he took from Parmartha´s article are also discussions criticizing Osho in sannyas websites.
Sannyasins tend to be free, open minded, closed, fanatics, or careless... as any human being can be. But there is no official enforced dogma on believing or agreeing on anything.
The proof of this is that sannyasins are the single group of spiritual seekers that you can find practically at the feet of any master, or new therapy or mind expanding method. You can see them in shamanism, ayurveda, Kalindi´s, Diamond logos, work, etc, etc, in addition to their ranking with different therapeutic schools.

Fourth, you need someone to believe in, some savior, and Osho himself advised his disciples not to believe in him unless it was their direct experience (Golden nuggets). And repeatedly he told his disciples he was �no savior or prophet or only begotten son of god, just an ordinary human being, like you� (Osho 1985, Interviews with the Press). Or "a master is not someone who has archive anything. a master is someone who has discovered that there is nothing to Achieve"(Dying for enlightenment, 1979, By Bernard Gunther)

My research shows that Osho was no " Deepak Chopra". The man was a rebellious iconoclast who did and said what he thought was his truth. He demolished the catholic church, The Islam and any form of organized religion; he spoke against mother Theresa, Gandhi (precisely for being against technology, which Osho strongly advocated, not as Mr. Calder’s affirmation in his article).

Osho, was a man who saw no use for rituals, discipline and all the self-torture that is going on in the name of renunciation or spirituality. The development of self-awareness was his flag. More over, he spoke against Indian traditions. Reason enough for the attempted murder against him in early eighties in Poona, by a fanatic Hindu during a public talk.

He thought of the meeting of east and west, of materialism and spirituality. "Zorba the Buddha", he called his "new man". And certainly he did not live the life of an ascetic. But beyond all, he helped his disciples and friends to be independent and rebellious individuals.

Calder’ s suppositions

Calder states �Rajneesh's poor health and strange symptoms were a product of real neurological and immune system dysfunction, not some esoteric super sensitivity caused by his enlightenment. Rajneesh also had Type II diabetes, asthma, and severe back pain.� According to him and his conclusions Osho had �Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS)�. Now this is simply his own idea, not based in any medical diagnosis made by any certified doctor.
He also states: �Rajneesh used prescription drugs, mainly Valium (diazepam), as an analgesic for his aches and pains and to counter the symptoms of dysautonomia (dysfunction of the autonomic nervous system). He took the maximum recommended dose of 60 milligrams per day. Rajneesh also inhaled nitrous oxide (N2O) mixed with pure oxygen, which he claimed increased his creativity. The nitrous oxide probably did relieve the sensation of severe exhaustion and suffocation patients with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome often feel, but it did nothing for the quality of his judgment. Naive about the power of drugs, and overconfident of his ability to fight off their negative effects, Rajneesh succumbed to addiction.�
Now this information that is stated as a �fact� comes, in fact, from second hand sources which are Hugh Milne´s book �The god that failed� and an Interview that Sheela, former Osho secretary, denounced by the master, gave to Stern magazine in Germany and 60 minutes in CBS in USA. Sheela was angry at Osho. She was actually enraged with the man, after all it was his accusations that threw her into jail. And also it was a way to undermine Amrito´s (Osho´s doctor) work. We should not forget that she tried to kill him at the ranch. And this has been documented. Now, a simple reflection would be to try to drive a car each day in the awful ranch roads with 60 milligrams of valium in the body and not to crash into the hundreds of sannyasins standing by the side of the road to greet him.
Consulted eye witnesses to these two accusations refuted Milne´s and Sheela´s accusations, and of course, Calder´s statements:
Devageet, Osho personal dentist from Poona one, to the end of Osho´s life stated: �Osho never used nitrous oxide, I used it, as his dentist, during his dental treatment sessions. Osho, as other masters have demonstrated (see Baba Neem karolie taking a massive dose of LSD on his first meeting with Guru Ram Dass, and showing no effects whatsoever), showed that the effects of Nitrous Oxide during his dental treatment had no effects of diminishing his clarity and awareness. He repeatedly showed that he could easily use the physiological effects of relaxation for a creative purpose, hence the three books dictated while in the dental chair: �Notes of a Madman�, �Books I have loved�, and �Glimpses of a Golden Childhood�. Having said that I can speak about aspects which do not betray that trust. Nitrous Oxide is a valid and valued analgesic and anesthetic agent, as you know, and it still provides the basis of anesthetic techniques because of its proven track record of safety and efficacy. It is a fact too that people have used it for leisure purposes. Osho was given nitrous oxide in a purely dental context."
Also, Sw. Jalal the dental equipment technician stated the following: �during the Ranch and in Poona 2 I was the dental room technician, responsible for looking after the equipment. Unless Osho was having surreptitious sessions without my knowledge, he wasn't using gas on a daily, or even weekly basis.� This is to the claim that Mr. Calder made to me that Devageet had told that Osho used "N02 for months on end". Which is just a lie or a misinformation.
In his article he claims to know that Osho took LSD and was drugged with N02 and Valium all the time, in his ranch house in USA. He had no access to any eyewitness of such accounts. The only people who had personal access to Osho in those days were Devaraj, Devageet, ashu, Nityamo, Vivek, Sheela, Hasya, Shunyo, nirupa and later anando, neelam and jayesh. None of these people have ever stated anything remotly like this... and in fact have refuted Mr. Calder’s accusations as fictions and fabrications on his part.
Also. To my reply that the N02 was used in dental sessions only he replied �No one dictates books while having dental surgery, and no dental surgery lasts for months.� First, the books were dictated in �the context� of dental sessions. It does not mean that he was speaking with the drill in his mouth...which is quite difficult indeed. We do not know how long the team of Devaraj, Devageet and their assistant Ashu stayed together listening to Osho. Second, two of the so called Books �Notes of a mad man� and �Books I have loved� are actually small pamphlets. Consisting of 13 sessions the first and 16 sessions the second. Both are small books, although they have been printed to look like glossy hard bounds in recent editions, the original ones were paperbacks with colorful pictures in them with a size not exceeding a pocked book. If you read out loud what is said in each session it would not take you more than 8 minutes and in some cases no more than 2. The other book �Glimpses of a golden childhood� is actually a thick lengthy book that was spoken at the beginning of Osho´s residence in Rajneeshpuram , Oregon. Although it is considerable bigger than the other two books. If you read any chapter out loud it will not take you more than 15 minutes. Those are the lengths he spoke for each session. So we can guess and speculate that in the first years of the ranch, lets say, 1982, 1983, and the beginning of 1984 ( the books were published in late ´84, early ´85) theses books were taken from the �context� of dental sessions were the anesthetic used by Osho´s dentist was N02. None of this is a proof �of dental sessions lasting for months� or �Osho, N02 addiction.�

And a final point I would like to make, why should the master, with his own commune, go to all the trouble of setting up dental sessions and having his teeth removed just because he enjoys having laughing gas? I certainly wouldn't go to all that trouble, I'd just set up a bottle next to my armchair and get blasted in peace and quiet. So, why did he call any dental sesions? He could not open the faucet?

Mr. Calder uses in his article a text From Jim Weaver where this congressman states that he saw nitrous oxide spigots by the side of the bed of Rajneesh´s room in Rajneeshpuram in USA. This Weaver text that Christopher keeps referring to and which is available at http://home.att.net/~medi tation/Weaver.html is obviously not reliable. Just one paragraph above the famous spigots, Weaver writes, with seemingly remarkable clarity of memory:
�Two days later, the Bhagwan and Ma Anand Sheela absconded from the Big Muddy, attempting to flee the country, and leaving their acolytes high and dry. On the same day, the two Prineville BLM chiefs announced their resignations.�

There is just a little problem … nothing like this happened. Sheela left on her own for Germany, Osho stayed in Oregon and denounced her to the press. Now I am supposed to believe this kind of witness?
That’s before we come to telling apart, say, an oxygen spigot for a known asthma sufferer from a nitrous oxide spigot … if indeed there were any spigots at all.

I exchanged some posts in a website with Mr. Calder and when I produced the evidence and arguments of true eyewitnesses to the events he was reporting in relation to Osho´s drug addiction he wrote to me: �When I visited the Oregon ranch in the 1980s I could tell he was on drugs just by looking at him. No one even had to tell me.� (Calder, 2007). This was his final eyewitness proof. He saw him with 15.000 thousand people, perhaps no less than 40 meters away, I do not think he got front seat at the ranch. And he �could tell� he was on drugs. Wow! Even I can not tell all the time when my friends are on drugs in parties at my own house. But, again, perhaps I am just not so perceptive.
When I discussed this point with Mr. Calder he called me �dishonest, crazy, fanatic and neurotic.. and in denial�. Then he proceeded to call me "Insane" and that I have to go "back to my straight jacket", to finally add that Osho "would have not liked me". All through out our discussion, in different forums, he consistently insulted me and pushed aside my arguments saying I was an "insane cult follower". All this, Simply because of my disagreeing with his second-hand information.
So, his ultimate proof is his perception of Osho. If he felt it...then, it must be true.

Mr. Calder sources
Most of his sources, as I said before, were the books written by two angry ex-disciples Sw. Shivamurti (Hugh Milne) and ma Satya Bharti. I have personally interviewed some people mentioned in Milne’s Book and they have reassured me that many stories of his book are complete fabrications, like the story of the mango uses in tantra groups and the fact that he was Osho´s personal bodyguard. Milne was not Osho´s personal Bodyguard. He was Laxmi´s. (Osho´s secretary at the time). Osho´s bodyguard was Sw. Vimalkirti. Milne was just guarding the Darshan sessions when Osho spoke to his disciples. He was the ahsram osteopath, and had somehow a special position in Poona one, which was not where he found himself later in The Ranch in Oregon. He had to drive a bulldozer and obey the orders of Ma Anand Sheela, Osho´s new secretary. He was the one who reported to have seen Osho inhaling Nitous Oxide in his house. He failed to see that that was the anesthetic being used in a dental session and not the recreational endeavor of the master. Actually, Hugh Milne´s book should have been called "The Secretary who failed", because all the problems reported in the book were with Sheela not Osho.
It is interesting to note that Hugh Milne (sw. Shivamurti) had psychiatric problems. He was admitted to a psychiatric hospital, and ended up consulting witches and trying to kill himself. (Milne 1986)
This is Mr. Calder´s source, and key witness, together with the introduction to one of the books that Osho dictated from the dental sessions and under the effect of this anesthetic.

When I confronted Mr Calder with the quotes from Devageet, he just wrote that �Devageet was a crazy man� and so was I. Therefore my disagreeing with his second-hand information made me into a �fanatic cult follower�.
The other source of information is the Book �The Promise of Paradise� by Satya Bharti Franklin. She was an early disciple who wrote two previous celebratory books about the life in the ashram and his experiences with Osho. In her book, she speaks about the rumors of Osho touching, or having sex with his disciples early in Bombay. That is where Mr. Calder, together with Milne´s stories constructed the idea that � ( He ) stated that he made love to his young female disciples because it would ensure their enlightenment in a future life� (Calder 2007).
This is sheer invention. Mr. Calder is not a witness to this account. Unless, of course, he was holding the camera while the master spoke this words and had sex in the privacy of his bedroom. I strongly doubt Mr. Calder was invited as a voyeur to such sessions.

I do not think that Osho was celibate, more over he overtly admitted not to be so, but still I have not find one single disciple to testify to have had sex with the man. I have however found accounts of people who heard other people saying they had sex with him and I have no reason to doubt that.
Again, He did not preach celibacy. In fact he considered it a disease.
A quote of Osho himself speaking about his sex-life. It is in The Last Testament, Vol. 1, 22 July 1985 pm in Jesus Grove, and goes like this:
Q: HAVE YOU EVER BEEN CELIBATE?
A: Right now I am celibate, but if my health gets better I am not going to be celibate. I have never been celibate. I do not do anything against nature. Right now I am celibate not because celibacy has any value, but just because I am sick. I don't have any energy to make love to a woman and do all the gymnastics, no. I have enough energy to talk to my people, to talk to you. If I get healthy again, I promise you, I will not be celibate.

The Sheela Story
Both Milne and Bharti had serious conflicts with Sheela´s fascist style in the Commune in USA. They both assumed that Osho was behind her actions. In fact she usually said that the �order comes from the chief� to convince someone to do something they felt their consciousness would not allow. So people thought it was a �devise� from the master. Now, Osho and his personal staff have clarified that many �orders� did not only not come from Him, but were deliberate moves on Sheela´s part to expand her power to areas where it was weak, such as the inner circle of the personal staff around Osho.
This area that was not under her command in the commune. In fact the attempted murder of Osho´s doctor was a move in this direction.
Many people were expelled from the commune in Oregon and big international and prosperus communes like Medina in England and Sushila´s in Autralia, were closed down because they were too successful and independent from Sheela ´s regime. Osho knew nothing about it (we must remember he was not speaking in public or having personal contact with his disciples) and to all of them it was said that it was Osho´s order.
Sheela´s fascist style developed over time as a response to the intense antagonism that the commune created around them . There were 17 state agencies trying to get them out of there; the sign announcing the nearby commune was used as shooting target by the local resident of the area; the hotel they bought in Portland was bombed, and even there is convincing evidence that the CIA hired someone to kill Osho. All this has been documented in the books "Passage to America" by Max Brecher and, "The way of the heart" By Judith Thompson, and "rajneesh garden", by Dell Murphy. Also, it can be checked Juliette Forman´s accout of the time and Ms appletton´s Book. I do not justify Sheela´s behaviour and I think she was criminally minded. But it certainly creates a context to view what these guys were facing. For further details see: , Or for a complete story of Osho´s commune see: http://www.ashe-prem.org/ two/davisson.shtml

Als o, in his article, Mr. Calder joins, or at least holds morally responsible, Osho´s arrest and deportation from USA with Sheela´s crimes. What he fails to see is that all those crimes, the salmonella poisoning, the intent of murder of Osho´s doctor, Devaraj, and the plot against the attorney general, the bugging of the commune, including Osho´s own room, were crimes committed by Sheela and her associates. These crimes were exposed by Osho and it was him who invited the FBI to investigate them in his own commune. Which ultimately lead to the capture of Sheela and her friends in Germany. If he had kept silent, no one would have ever guessed or known about them. We should know that the salmonella poisoning in The Dalles was attributed to "improper food handling" by the authorities. Now this is referred to by the media as �The only American case of Bio-terrorism�.
We could argue that Osho had a poor eye for choosing his secretary or that she changed over time, or that he should have been more involved in controlling what she did in his name, but we can not accuse him of crimes that include him as a victim, such as the wire-tapping of his own room. To think of Osho as omniscient or infallible is nothing but a god-like father projection. He was a human being. Wise, awake, but a human being. He himself said when a journalist asked him �if he was enlightened how he did not know about theses crimes?�. His answer was �enlightenment means I know myself. It does not mean that I know that my room is being bugged� (Osho, Interviews with the press, 1985)

Osho´s factual �criminal� records
As far as criminal records is concerned, Osho´s criminal records (as Mr. Calder mentioned it to me) and reasons for his deportation are just two charges ofimmigration fraud. He was accused, First, of arranging sham marriages. And second, of lying on the tourist visa application, in the sense that he stated he did not intend to stay in the states and later he tried to stay.

It is just not possible for Osho to have arranged any marriage due to the fact that he did not see any disciples in private. Marriages were certainly arranged to allow foreign sannyasisn to live in the commune. But these are the sole responsibility of the people involved. To hold osho responsible for this is just stupid. it is as charging the Pope for any catholic staying ilelgally in Rome.
In relation to the second charge,according to his attorney, Niren, and the research he did, no one in the whole history of the United states has been even prosecuted by such "offense" and, what to say about the half a million dollar fine that he was forced to pay for his release.
To come to the US in a tuirist visa with the "hidden intention" of eventually applying for a permanent one is not a " crime" that anyone, ever, has been chaged for.

The attorney general said when he was asked why Osho was not accused of the same crimes as Sheela that �I did not have any proof whatsoever linking Rajneesh to Sheela´s crimes.� And �all we wanted was to dismantle the commune�. And he forgot to add that the complaint that lead to Sheela ´s arrest was filed by Osho himself.

In his article Mr. Calder says a that Osho lied about not knowing about the wire tapping. I do not think he sent his room to be bugged. Also he did not denounce Sheela, as he states, when he suspected she was stealing money from him, but when she left the commune and people started coming up with the stories of her crimes...including the money stealing.

All through out his article Mr. Calder confuses facts with his personal opinion based on second hand information, and assumptions, such as when he quotes Sheela´s statement on Osho using 60 milligrams of valium a day. Suddenly the cheat, liar criminal becomes a reliable source of information. How convenient.

The growth groups
In the beginning of his article he questions the development of growth groups in the ashram, saying that they have nothing to do with enlightenment or meditation or the search of truth and that the only reason for their inclusion in the activities was to bust the ashram´s economy. What mr. Calder ignores is that these experiments, blending western humanistic psychotherapies with eastern mysticism became the base for further developments in humanistic-transpersonal psychologies. This became the most important psycho-spiritual experiment in counter cultural psychology since the establishment of Esalen Institute in California, as it has been documented in the Spanish book De Esalen Poona. Osho y el camino de la psicolog?­a humanista-transpersonal. (â€?From Esalen to Poona. Osho and the development of humanistic- transpersonal psychologyâ€?) By J. C. Saez Editor, Santiago, Chile, by Vikrant A. Sentis. As a proof of this we had the pilgrimage to the ashram in Poona of hundreds of the most well known western humanistic psychotherapists and group leaders such as: Will Schutz, the creator of Encounter Groups; Bernard Gunther, bestselling author and creator of Esalen Massage and developer of Sensory Awareness; Richard price, disciple of Fritz Perls, co-founder of Esalen Institute; Leonard Zunnin and Andy Farber from the Neurological and Psychiatric American Board; David Boadella, developer of bios?­ntesis; John Bell, inventor of Unitive Psychology; Gerda Boyesen, inventor of Biodynamic Psychology; Dr, Yusson, creator of Humaniversity psychology; Thomas Thorbe, developer of the co-dependency work; Dr. Robert Birnbaum, disciple of Perls, Bernie and Carl Rogers, director of Odissey Center; Paul Lowe, founder of the British Association for Humanistic Psychology, Michael Barnett, renowned author and founder of PNP and Community Growth Center; Alexander Everent, developer of the Alfa Training and his disciple Werner Erhard, founder of Est Training; among hundreds of others. The complete list and their perils in Poona can be found in Mr. Sentis book. Some of theses people studied under Osho for a while and then went on their way, some others stayed up to this day.

The Rolls royce story

The main issue of controversy while Osho lived in the US was the ownership of 93 Rolls Royces. Everybody was shocked. But noone bothered to consider that there was something strange about the whole thing. Isn´t strange that someone who supossedly would like to be considered a spiritual teacher, and gather follower as Mr. Calder believes, dares to have 93 rolls royces and be open and public about that? The normal thing would have been to try to pretend to be humble and ascetic. After all, that is our cultural conditioning around spirituallity, isn´ it?
Well, I think OSHO HAD SOMETHING ELSE IN MIND: To make a joke out of amerian consumerism. Tom Robbins (The famous American novelist), check his interview in http://www.youtube.com/wa tch?v=Gq7IUM4lCrs, called this affair �the greatest spoof on american consumerism ever made�.
I think he was right. He was just calling the attention: he himself said "no one was listening to me in USA before the Rolls Royces came along. While their mouths are dropping open perhaps I can pour some truth in."
Also, I think he was challenging our conditioning about spirituallity and materialism.
I do not think any spiritual master who would have liked to be appreciated would have made such a show... because it was a show with a fleet of cars. His intention was to say something else. The same about the watches, which by the way were made of quartz not diamonds...but the idea was that they would look like diamonds.

Calder´s death theory
Mr. calder argues that he thinks that Osho died of �the addiction effects� of N02. He said to me in our discussion �Rajneesh was destroyed by illness and by his own drug use.... the official cause of his death was listed as heart failure, but there was much speculation he committed suicide. If he did commit suicide, I am sure they used morphine or barbiturates�. Now, these exceptional ideas come from Mr. Calder´s talent to �feel� or �tell� how people die. Because actually nobody knows for sure what killed the man. The doctors consulted thought that the case looked like heavy metal poisoning. As they could not trace anything in the blood , they thought of Thalium, as it can not be traced in the bloodstream after a while. This was told to Osho and then he and his personal staff concluded that the only place where this could have happened was while held in custody in USA for his immigration trial. It is a proven fact that he was held in a jail in Oklahoma under the false name of David Washington. It is assumed throughout Mr. Calder´s article that Osho 'regularly used nitrous oxide' in the dental chair, without any clarification of what 'regularly' means. It could mean once or twice a year. But the assumption, or rather, the implication here is that it was on a daily basis. One does not get nitrous poisoning just by using it a few times a year. And yet there is absolutely no evidence that Osho used laughing gas more than that. Nor that he had nitrous poisoning. We are just asked to accept this as "fact".
Mr. Calder says that the poisoning does not equate with thalium poisoning symptoms. Now, as far as I know, Mr. Calder is not a doctor and at the worst he could have got the information from internet. Now, in the webpage for thalium poisoning says �Note that Thallium poisoning symptoms usually refers to various symptoms known to a patient, but the phrase Thallium poisoning signs may refer to those signs only noticeable by a doctor.�
Mr. Calder argument is that the main symptom for Thalium poisoning is hair loss. Well, Osho did loose his hair in huge quantities, as it was reported by Anando, his persobnal secretary. Usually the hair is not lost in the beard, but in the head, where Osho was certainly bald... and had been for some time. Here is a quote from Osho on the subject:
�Dr. Dhyan Yogi, immediately took my blood samples, urine samples, samples of my hair, and went to England, to Germany, to the best experts. The European experts suggest that after two years there is no poison, which can be detected in the body, but all the symptoms show that a certain poison has been given. No resistance against disease, falling weight without any reason, hair falling out without any reason, tingling sensations in the extremities, loss of appetite, tastelessness, nausea, the bone pain in my right hand ... One of the experts, a doctor from Germany had come twice to check my bone; he could not figure out what kind of disease it is - because there is no disease. The expert here - Dr. Hardikar, a man who loves me - has been here continuously watching for three months and has not been able to figure out why this pain should be there. The European experts in England and Germany have suggested a name of a certain poison, thalium. It is a poison of a family of poisons of heavy metals. It disappears from the body in eight weeks' time, but leaves its effects and destroys the body's resistance against diseases. And all the symptoms that I have told you are part of thalium poisoning. The American experts have suggested a different poison, which they think has been used by governments against rebellious individuals. The name of the poison is synthetic heroin. It is one thousand times more dangerous than ordinary heroin. All the symptoms are the same as with thalium, but the poison is more dangerous and after two years there is no possibility to find any trace of it in the body. The Japanese experts, who have been working in Hiroshima and Nagasaki on atomic radioactivity, have suggested that these symptoms can also be created in a more sophisticated way by radioactive exposure - either while I was asleep, or food can be exposed to radioactivity and there is no way to find any trace of it. One of the scientists who is immensely interested in me is coming within a week or two. He has been working for twenty years only on radioactivity. His suggestion is that the Americans, the bureaucracy in America, must have used the most sophisticated poisoning which leaves no trace.�(Osho, November 6, 1987)

However, the doctors might have been wrong and the toxin used was not Thalium...or there was no toxin. Who knows. Diagnosis is not as infallible as the Pope. But the fact is that Osho died at 59 years of age and his health was certainly deteriorating since the US deportation. Now, Mr. Calder argument is that his death is the result of N02 addiction. Well, it has been already proved that the people who used this gas on him, used it only during dental sessions as anaesthtic. Therefore the possibility of being poisoned by N02 is out of question. We could argue that those people (His dentist and technician, and caretakers) are lying to protect Osho´s vice. But then, if we begin with that argument, then everybody could be lying, including myself, Mr. Calder, Osho, his personal stuff... Then we have nothing to hold on to and all this discussion is irrelevant. What I have done is taking eyewitnesses account as facts, for the argument sake, and then contrast it with second–hand information. Not only that, second-hand emotionally motivated information. It is clear from Mr. Calder letters, articles, and responses, that he is emotionally driven, as myself, to discuss what we think is the truth.

I can only suppose or guess what is Mr. Calder motivation. But from his writing I feel that he is basically hurt. Perhaps he felt cheated by Osho, perhaps he felt stupid believing in what he said, perhaps as he states it, he felt Acharya Rajneesh lost the way, or perhaps, honestly, he felt that the man was wrong and he felt compelled to lead a crusade against this �criminal demential, liar�. I do not know. But what I do know is that as far as second hand information I have closer and more reliable ones: The actual people involved in the stories he tells. And, of course, bibliographical references for the quotes I use. Not just words I assume I heard, or heard someone else saying them. I insist: A quote without a reference is a lie. And Mr Calder lies a lot.

athompsonphd@hotm ail.com

*Feel free to copy and distribute this article, as long as you make reference to its source.

* Also, I want to thank all the people who helped me to construct this article with their own arguments such as Phil, Jayen,P.R., Jalal Devageet.

General Bibliographical Reference
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- Anand, M. (2001). History of Western Tantra. Manuscrito no publicado.
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- Hunt, A. & Grey, A. (2002) Zig Zag Zen. California: Cronicle Books.
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- Kaplan, H. & Sadock B. (1972). Sensitivity Through Encounter and Marathon. New York: J. Aronson.
- Kent, I. & William, N. (1972). Iamness. New York: The Bobbs-Merril Company Inc.
- Kimnley, M- (1974). Esalen and Massage. California. Big Sur Press.
- Krishnananda, S. (1998) Face to Face with Fear. Cologne. Koregaon.
- Kovel, J. (1976). A Complete Guide to Therapy. New York: Panteon Books
- Lowe, P. (1988). I am Project. Cassette de charla dada en Villa Volpi.
- Lowe, P. (1989). The Experiement is Over. New York: Roximillion Press.
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- Lowen, A. (1975). Bioenergetics. New york: Coward, McCann & Geoghegan, Inc.
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- Maslow, A. (1971). The farther Reaches of Human Nature. New York: Viking Press.
- Mathison, D. (1993). White Collar Cults, They want your Mind...Self Magazine. February Issue.
- Meredith, G. (1989). Osho, the Godless, yet the most Godly Man. Cologne. Rebel publishing House.
- Medina Rajneesh (1982). Medina Rajneesh May- August 1982, September1982 -January 1983. Suffolk: Medina Rajneesh Press.
- Menzies, A. S. (2001) Michael Barnett, A Western Spiritual Teacher. (Manuscrito bajado de Wildgoose.net).
- ODCCP. (1975). Bulletin On Narcotics. Issue1-002. (Manuscrito bajado de undcp.org).
- Orr, L. (1978) Rebirthing Therapy. San Fransisco: Harper and Row.
- Osho (1977a). Get out of Your Own way. Bombay: Rajneesh Foundation. P. 91.
- Osho (1977b). Be Realistic Plan for a Miracle. Bombay: Rajneesh Foundation.P. 51
- Osho (1978). A Rose is a Rose is a Rose. Bombay: Rajneesh Foundation. P.15, 17.
- Osho (1978a). Beloved of My heart. Bombay. Rajeneesh foundation. P. 229.
- Osho (1978b). The Shadow of the Wip. Bombay. Tajneesh Foundation. P. 161.
- Osho (1979a). The Sound of The Running Water. Bombay: Rajneesh Foundation.
- Osho (1979b). Blessed are the Ignorant. Bombay: Rajneesh Foundation. P. 355, 484.
- Osho (1980a). The Sun Behind the Sun, Behind the Sun. Bombay: Rajneesh Foundation. P. 74.
- Osho (1980b). Believing the Imposiible before Breakfast. Bombay: Rajneesh Foundation. P. 187, 189.
- Osho (1980c) Far Beyond the Stars. Bombay: Rajneesh Foundation. P. 55.
- Osho (1980d). The 99 Names of Nothingness. Bombay: Rajneesh Foundation. P. 87,89, 170, 204, 207, 256, 261.
- Osho (1980e). The Open Door. Bombay: Rajnnesh Foundation. P. 139-140.
- Osho (1980f). What it is Is, What Ain´t Aain´t. Bombay: Rajneesh foundation. P. 209.
- Osho (1981a). Halleluya. Bombay: Rajneesh Foundation. P. 6-7, 111,114,119.
- Osho (1981b). Only Loosers can Win this Game.Bombay. Rajneesh Foundation.
- Osho (1981c). Miriad are the Paths. Bombay: Rajneesh Foundation.
- Osho (1982). Zorba the Buddha. Oregon: Rajneesh Foundation.
- Osho (1984). This Very Place the Lotus Paradise. Oregon: Rajnnesh Foundation.
-Osho (1985). Osho Times. Oregon. Rajneesh Foundation.
- Osho (1988a) .Beyond the Frontiers of Mind. Cologne: The Rebel Publishing House.
- Osho (1988b). Del Sexo a la Suprema Consciencia. Mallorca: Gulaab.
- Osho (1990) Beyond Psychology. Cologne. The Rebel Publishing House.
- Osho (1990). From Bondage to Freedom. Cologne. The Rebel Publishing House.
- Osho (2001). The Osho Therapist. Santiago. (Manuscrito no publicado). P. 195-196.
- Pain B. (1986). IAM International Academy of Meditation Programme February-June, June-October,1986. Novara: Tipograf?­a Ceruti
- Prasad, Ch. (1972). The Mystic of Feeling. Bombay: Chetan Jagruti Kendra.
- Putman, A. O. (1973). Effects of Marathon Encouter Groups on Self -Reported Behaviour in Interpersonal Contexts. P. 176. (T?©sis doctoral. Manuscrito no publicado).
- Premartha & Svarup (1999). Twice Born. A Childhood Deconditioning Process. Pfungen: Via Lastraco.
- Quaesitor Catalog. (1986). Quaesitor II. Londres: Quaesitor.
- Rajneesh Foundation. (1979). Rajneesh International University. Bombay: Rajneesh Foundation.
- Rajnessh Foundation. (1982). Rajneesh Meditation and Growth Institute at geetam. Program January through June. California: Rajneesh International Foundation.
- Rajneesh International foundation. (1983). Rajneesh International Meditatioon University. Nov 1983 - May 1984. Rajneesh Puram Oregon: RIF.
- Rajneesh Foundation Newsletter. (1984). Groups and Programmes. Oregon Rajneesh Foundation.
- Reich, W. (1949). Character Analysis. New York: Noonday Press.
- Reich, W. (1970). The Function of Orgasm. New York: Orgone Institute Press.
- Rogers, C.( 1961). On Becoming a Person. San Diego: Constable.
- Rogers, C. (1970). On Encounter Groups. San Fransico: Harper and row.
- Sadhana, A. (2003). The Osho Experience. Mumbai: Osho International Foundation.
- Samadhi, P. (1983). Grada Rajneesh Magazine. Year1, volume 4. Egmond Aan Zee: Zilstra Drikwerg.
- Sarito, M. (1992). Osho Multiversity. Cologne: Rebel Publishing House.
- Sassenfeld, A. (2002). Historia de la Psicolog?­a Transpersonal. Santiago. (Manuscrito no publicado).
- Schloegl, I. (1977). The Zen Way. Londres: Sheldon Press.
- Schutz, E. (1967). Joy: Expanding Human Awareness. California: Harper and Row.
- Schutz, W. (1971) Here comes Everybody. New York: Irvington Publishers.
- Schutz, W. (1973). Elements of Encounter. New York: Irvington Publishers, Inc.
- Schutz, W. (1977). Body Fantasy. New York: Irvington Publishers.
- Schwartz, T. (2002). What really Matters. California: Bantam Books.
- Shaffer, (1995).This and That. New York. Bantam.
-Sentis V.(2004) De Esalen a POOna. Osho y el camino de la psicolog?­a humanista-transpersonal. (â€?From Esalen to Poona. Osho and the development of humanistic- transpersonal psychologyâ€?) By J. C. Saez Editor, Santiago, Chile
- Teertha, A. (1976). �Encounter�. Sannyas Magazine. Bombay: Rajneesh Foundation.
- Time Magazine. (1978). �God Sir at Esalen East�. Enero 16. Bombay
- Urquieta, L (1998). Osho el Maestro Rebelde. Revista Uno Mismo. Santiago: Editorial Agedit Lta.
- Vasudeva, A. (1978). Sannyas Magazine. Agosto. Volumen 1. Bombay: Rajneesh Foundation. P. 41.
- Veeresh, a. (2001). The Pune talks Part III. (Manuscrito publicado en Humaniversity.nl).
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- Watts, A. (1975). Psychotherapy, East and West. New York: Vintage Books.
- Wender, Louis. (1951). �Reflections on group psychotherapy�. Quarterly Review of Psychiatry and Neurology, 6, 246-248.
- West, M. (1987). The Psychology of Meditation. New york: Harper and Row.
- White, John Warren. (1984). What is Enlightenement. Los Angeles: Houghton Mifflin Company.
- Wilber, K. (1980). The Atman Project. Wheaton: Thosophical Publishers House.
- Yalom , D. I. (1999). Est and Responsability. Existential Psychotherapy. New York: Random Press.
Interviews
1) Aneesha Dillon. Pulsation therapist
2) Aseema. Osho´s medium in energy darhsns
3) Barnett, Michael.One of the first Osho therapists
4) Celis, Alejandro.Chilean disciple
5) Maneesha James.Osho´s biographer and editor of darshan diaries
6) Satyen. Doctor and osho´s multiversity therapist
7) Shakura. Osho therapist
8) Shunyo y Gitam. American disciples who worked in "share a home project".
9) Wolfgang Dobrowolny. director of ashram
10) Devageet. osho´s dentist
11) Amrito (Devaraj) Osho´s doctor
12)Anando. Osho´s last secretary
13)Badra. swiss disciple
14)Dr. Cyriax. Creator orthopedic medicine.
Filmes
1) Ashram. 1981. Dirigido y producido por Wolfgang Dobrowolny. Alemania.
2) Bhagwan 1975. 1976. Estados Unidos.
3) Camel Club. Reuni??n de Residentes en Poona One. 2001. Santa Fe. Video aficionado.
4) Osho, The Biography. 1993. Bob Mullan. Reino Unido.
5) Rajneeshpuram, An Experiment to provoke god. 1993. Bob Mullan. Estados Unidos.
6) Secrets of Mind Control. 1991. Jeremiah Films. Estados Unidos.
7) The Spiritual terrorist. 1989. Australian Crew. Australia.
8) This Commune the BuddhaField. 1981. Rajneesh Foundation. India.
.
Mr. Calder references:
Bhagwan: The God That Failed, by Hugh Milne, Saint Martin's Press.(1986)
Promise of Paradise: A Woman's Intimate Life With 'Bhagwan' Osho Rajneesh, by Satya Bharti
(1991)
Websites

http://home.att.net/~med itation/Osho.html
http:/ /www.rebelliousspirit.com /osho-webzine/103/sharing
http://www.sannyasnews. com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl? board=LoO;action=display; num=1186515660
http://ww w.sannyasnews.com/Article s/OshoDentalChair.html
h ttp://www.sannyasworld.co m/index.php?name=News& ;file=article&sid=74

http://www2.db.dk/pe/two tales.htm
http://www.ash e-prem.org/two/davisson.s html
http://home.att.net /~meditation/Osho.html

Reply
    Anthony Thompson phd: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
    Date: Mar 23, 2008, 16:56
    I would like to state that I did not post my previous article in this forum. I would not take so much space. I saw no need to take it because it was already posted somewhere else.
    So, I apologise for this.
    regards
    anthony

    Reply
      Balveer: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      Date: Mar 24, 2008, 23:26
      Hi Anthony

      I think this article is fine being here (I could not read it when you suggested a few days ago). I thank the person who posted it here and love you for writing it.

      Two things stand out for me in this article: first, some facts about Osho and commune functions and second his teaching or methods.

      Personally it is helpful to see how you clarified some fact about Osho and put them into perspective. Some people may continue to play into the hands of their own conditionings, it is their problem.

      The most important thing for me is his teaching and methods. I think your summary of what he wanted to say and what he wanted to achieve for his people and his contribution to the development of human consciousness is excellent. I am a researcher myself and I can not agree more with what you have said in this article.

      I was in Poona in 1993 to do a doctoral research in psychology, which I could not complete. I was comparing therapeutic effects of dynamic meditation in comparison with behaviour modification techniques. However, I continued to practice meditation and read him. I personally think you have to meditate deeply to be able to understand Osho better. Until one meditates and self reflects, it is hard to understand his contradictions.

      About 13 years after my first attempt at doctorate, I have decided to give another shot. Again, my work is underpinned by his thinking, this time I am studying consciousness within the scope of mindfulness psychology. From my personal experiences all I can say is ' if people just read him, they will go crazy with his contradictions but if you meditate and self reflect, you will love him.

      Anyhow, Anthony, would you be interested in a personal discussion regarding my research via emails?

      Love

      Balveer


      Reply
pooja: seeking anthony's help
Date: Mar 25, 2008, 20:28
hi,
i m totally in love with this man OSHO and lately a friend of mine checked into shaj yoga thing by nirmala devi and started contradicting osho ....all i cud find was the pasted matter below & from the links enclosed.
Plzz chk it and help me out with new mess my mind has created, specially where osho says....madam nirmala devi was a disciple for 10 yrs and she only claiming that she went to all the gurus to see their methods....etc etc....
OSHO........

Lecture Number 6 of Rajneesh's book The Goose Is Out states:

There are so many fools in the world that any Indian can find disciples. It is not a problem at all. Just your being Indian is enough and you are a guru. I have seen such things happening before my eyes.

One of my disciples Nirmala Srivastava has now become a great spiritual leader. Now her name is long: Her Holiness Jagatjanani - "The mother of the whole world" - Mataji Nirmalaji Srivastavaji. She was once travelling with me in a car and I passed by Muktananda's ashram. The people staying in Muktananda's ashram invited me to be there for a five-minute stay just to take a cup of tea, And it was a long journey so I said "There is no harm in it" Anyway I love a cup of tea. So I stayed for five minutes.

Nirmala saw Muktananda. She could not believe that this stupid-looking man - disgusting more or less a buffoon - had become a great spiritual leader.

After the tea when we re-entered the car she said, "If this man can become a spiritual leader, then why can't I?"

I said "You can", And she became one.

There is one man here from Australia who asked me a question, because now she is in Australia doing great spiritual work. He asked me: "Once in a while you talk about a woman Rabiya el- Adawiyat. What do you think about Mataji Nirmala Deviji? Is she also of the same category as Rabiya el-Adawiya?" The Man is here.

I know her perfectly well, for ten years she was my student,. There is nothing in it, no spirituality, no meditativeness but she got the idea from Muktananda. And it is not the only case.

NIRMALA DEVI..............
Shri Mataji's descriptions of her visits to Rajneesh and Muktananda are taken from an interview in Hinduism Today (Volume 12, Number 10, page 7). The relevant section is as follows:

HT: How did you develop Sahaja Yoga?

Nirmala Devi: It happened in very funny circumstances on the 5th May, 1970. I had been going to all these gurus to see what they are doing, how they work and all that, just to study them. I was a born realized soul. I could have given realization to one or two also, but my idea was to find out a way by which I could give en masse realization. I went to see Swami Muktananda and all of them. I went to see this Rajneesh, who was very much after me. I went on my own and stayed there. I was sitting on a little platform under a tree watching all that was there. I was shocked because he was mesmerizing people who were holding an ordinary glass. How horrible it was. I felt so bad because there was mud, dirt, filth, and they were all wearing that.

[In my search, I found that there] were no gurus, they were false people, most of them. So I said, "If that is the thing that those gurus are doing, better try myself." So the whole night I sat under a bilva tree near the seashore. I was just thinking, "How will I manage this en mass realization?" And that is the day when the seventh chakra opened and when I saw how the kundalini was going to rise. Of course, I cannot explain this to you because it is a different level of understanding. It is a siddhi (psychic power) which is beyond chitta (consciousness). So with the siddhi I worked it out. When that happened, this one didn't know anything about realization. Then I started this work.

Note: The Hinduism Today interview may be translated from Hindi as "I felt so bad because there was mud, dirt, filth, and they were all wearing that" may refer to the Rajneeshis all wearing 'mala' - a word that can mean beads as well as dirt. The reference to the Rajneeshis "holding an ordinary glass" may be a similar mistranslation.

Encl:h ttp://members.tripod.com/ toutsursahajayoga/sources .htm
Thx in anticipation to anthony i know his genuine and hard work in the research section :)


pooh :)






































Reply
pooja: REQUEST TO ANTHONY
Date: Mar 25, 2008, 21:18
in my own findings i found more related matter................... ...........i simply dont agree
anything of the sort could have happenes bt genuinely appreciate the research work done on these topics.....by the only light ANTHONY.....
pasting the quotes from one mre site and enclosing it....................... ................
"P erhaps Shri Mataji's most sustained and vituperative attack on her former teacher came in a letter that Shri Mataji dictated to one of her early followers who was told to sign it from "the seekers of the West". Here is a brief snippet:

He would take us in privacy, make the women nude and use them. He always wanted to touch the private parts of men and women alike, he always liked to smell the private parts on his fingers which he would then lick: all this filth we accepted because we thought it was our test of endurance. He exhausted our money: we had to pay for this trickery which leads you nowhere. Some of us had to work for hours together to find the money. Many things surprised us like this. Some women believed that he was their husband in previous lives.
Interestingly, Shri Mataji claimed that Rajneesh had been "very much after" her both in this life and a former life. She claimed that she had been the Hindu goddess Sita and that he had been the ten-headed demon Ravanna - both characters in the Ramayana. According to this Hindu epic, Ravanna kidnapped Sita from her god husband Rama and was only rescued with the help of a god monkey that could fly and talk."
surely the seriouness is involved in exposing people like nirmala devi which only good reseach work would do............
pasting one more dont know the truth in it...........
"One person who left Sahaja Yoga at the beginning of the 1990s followed up Kakar's passing comment and tracked down 6 other independent sources that confirmed Shri Mataji's association with Rajneesh. These sources included an ex-Rajneeshi who remembered the 'Nirmala' who followed Rajneesh and went off to found Sahaja Yoga. Another source was an ex-Sahaja Yogi who followed Shri Mataji since 1972. This early Sahaja Yogi rejected Rajneesh's exaggerated claim that Shri Mataji had followed him for 10 years, but confirmed the association had lasted for at least a few months. Our own contacts with somebody who knew both Shri Mataji and Rajneesh in 1970 indicate that the association lasted for about a year"
encl :http://www.sahaja-yoga.o rg/.
Dear ANTHONY the same request goes for u
.Plz help me on this .






Reply
    pooja: the other side of the story about nirmala devi
    Date: Mar 25, 2008, 21:47
    SYFacts: It has been reported to us that back in 1994, a young boy of 12-13 years old attending the SY school in Dharamshala was sexually abused by a music teacher named Sir Raja. Do you know anything about that?
    Lance: Unfortunately that is true. This was one of the key things that made me realise that Sahaja Yoga was not what we had been told continously for so long. It was one of a few such events.
    SYFacts: We have received a testimony from Sam, can you confirm it?
    Lance: I think that is a very accurate picture of what happened. I am surprised Sam remembers it so well. I did not see the commotion but heard about it from Miles very soon after it happened. Miles was not the only victim, at least two other boys - fellow Australians Garth and Nathan, were also abused by Raja.

    A Sahaja Yogini from Germany heard of it and told Yogi Mahajan. I remember seeing her go to the tell Mahajan. I was late for evening meditation and I saw her crying and walking up to Mahajan's house. I even remember the weather - it was one of those sun showers we would often get where the sun shines but it rains.

    The teachers at the school originally believed what the children had said about Raja. They were very sympathetic and were quite vocal in their wish to have Raja removed from the school and appropriate action taken.

    Raja was removed but returned to the school after a brief period. He stayed for a short time, perhaps a few weeks, I don't remember exactly how long. We were, of course, very upset that he should have been allowed back to the school and when we asked we were told that "Shri Mataji said that Raja had not done these things and that they were made up by the negative, sex obsessed, Western children."

    When Raja came back all the teachers seemed to become hostile towards the kids, especially poor Miles. Of course the kids were quite distressed at this sudden change of attitude. This was one of the most frustrating times at the school because the boys that had told of this were said to be making it up. Raja did not start teaching and then left again.

    SYFacts: Did Miles return to the school after the next break?
    Lance: Miles actually did, but the teachers were very hostile towards him and he didn't stay long.
    SYFacts: Do you know if Raja sexually abused any girls in addition to the boys?
    Lance: I don't know about that. It is possible. Girls and boys were usually separated so if something did happen I would not know about it directly. However, I do remember two other teachers that kissed and touched the girls very inappropriately, often in front of the whole class. Nothing was done about such incidents despite the girls protesting.
    SYFacts: Was Raja a Sahaja Yogi appointed teacher or an ordinary teacher who became a Sahaja Yogi?
    Lance: He was a Sahaja Yogi before he came to the school as a music teacher.
    SYFacts: Do you know if Raja is still in Sahaja Yoga?
    Lance: During the 1998/1999 India Tour, at Ganapatipule, I saw Raja up on the stage only a few metres from Shri Mataji during a puja and a concert. I was really upset at this and it really makes me furious when I think about it. Raja should be in jail, but he is a 'top' Sahaja Yogi instead.
    SYFacts: Did you understand what was going on at the time?
    Lance: Not at the time, I actually realised immediately after the event what had been happening and how I saw what had happened. It is just crystal clear now and I wish I had known at the time so that I could have done something about it. Raja was very over friendly with all the boys. He was constantly hanging about our rooms. He acted like a big brother to many of us.
    SYFacts: Why would Australians have been the exclusive targets of Raja's abuse?
    Lance: I had the same thoughts regarding the exclusive targeting of Australians. Australians were a majority at the school but I don't think they were the only ones targeted by Raja. There were possibly other boys involved but I don't know of any, although I suspect there were ones that will not say anything about it.
    SYFacts: Did any of these boys tell you exactly what Raja would do?
    Lance: Yes. I was told by some of them, but I will not go into details.
    SYFacts: How sure are you that the abused boys were telling the truth?
    Lance: I have known them for years and know that they were telling the truth. I have no reason to doubt that.
    SYFacts: Was Raja in a position of power that allowed him to take advantage of his position as an adult and a teacher?
    Lance: Raja was definitely able to take advantage of his position. He was also in charge of the senior boys dormitories and was also often like the spiritual advisor or counsellor for the senior boys. He definitely had the position to be able to manipulate boys and pressure them.
    SYFacts: Did Raja threaten the boys not to speak, did he use psychological pressure or manipulation to get away with the abuse?
    Lance: Raja used psychological pressure a lot on all of us. He probably did to them as well.
    SYFacts: Can you be sure that Shri Mataji even heard of the abuse?
    Lance: I believe that Shri Mataji knew for sure. We were told that she said it never happened, along with a few other things. I would find it hard to believe that Shri Mataji did not find out about all this as everyone at the school eventually knew. Many of the parents heard but I think that it was hushed up or they didn't realise the full extent of what happened.
    SYFacts: How did you and your friends see Shri Mataji after being told of her reaction?
    Lance: As you can imagine, many of us had a very sudden change in perspective.
    SYFacts: Are Miles, Nathan and Garth still in Sahaja Yoga?
    Lance: They do not practice Sahaja Yoga anymore. In fact, most of the people that went to the India school that I keep in contact with no longer practise Sahaja Yoga. This surprised me at first because of the effort put into indoctrination at the school. I don't know if the children in Europe had a similar reaction. Most of my ex-classmates that are in the US are still very involved in Sahaja Yoga though.
    SYFacts: How do the boys see Sahaja Yoga?
    Lance: I still see all three boys often. As I said, none practise Sahaja Yoga and all have a very sceptical view of the happenings at the school and of Sahaja Yoga in general. I think that is common among the ex-students, including myself.
    SYFacts: On behalf of SYFacts, and I hope on behalf of all past and present Sahaja Yogis, I'd like to thank you for being courageous enough to come forward with this information.
    Lance: It is no problem at all.


    Reply
      Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:the other side of the story about nirmala devi
      Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
      Date: Mar 26, 2008, 3:05
      Pooja. I appriciate the fact that you think that I can produce a research on any aspect of Osho´s life and relations. However I do not have much information on this subject.
      All i know is that she was associated with osho in the late sixties early seventies. there is a footage in the film the raising moon where she is attending a maditation camp at mount abhu. As far as I know she was with Osho for about a year. I think she freaked out when he started initiating sannyasins.
      She was older than Osho then i do not think he was sexually interested in her. specially because at that time it is reported that his lover was seema who was in her early twenties while he was in his late thirties.
      as far as the the sexual stories... it sounds quite like an indian fantasy, but as I was not there... I do not know.
      regards
      anthony

      Reply
        : RE:the other side of the story about nirmala devi
        Date: Mar 30, 2008, 23:33
        With no disrespect to you or Anthony, Pooja I must say you have limited this discussion between you and Anthony.

        I am not sure what is truth about Nirmala Devi but how does that matter to you journey of understanding? I think if you frame you question in relation to you, it might get better outome for you.

        I know, when you are on a path, things related to your master matter to you. But if you try and understand, you can get past without discovering/resolving personal truths.

        Love

        Balveer

        Reply
          pooja: RE:
          Date: Apr 3, 2008, 20:05
          i dont uderstand balveer what u mean by...........
          "i think if you frame you question in relation to you, it might get better outome for you."
          plzz dont think too much ....as i limited my question
          to myself nd anthony.

          Reply
            Balveer: RE:
            Date: Apr 4, 2008, 0:09
            Done!

            Reply
: Guru Guru
Date: Apr 12, 2008, 10:39
A. Thompson again and again presents himself as an objective researcher, claiming he is not a sannyasin, but having spent more then 20 years of research on Osho and therefore being better informed than anyone else about the subject. But he is not objective or scientific at all. He is just playing the guru on this site, dominating the debate, displaying his obsessive and one-sided picture of Osho, elaborately denying and supressing all the frauds, which do not fit into his narcistic self image. A crackpot, with a strong mind certainly.

Reply
    Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:Guru Guru
    Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
    Date: Apr 12, 2008, 17:24
    Here we go again. Mr. Guru-guru please suplly the facts to discuss and delighted I will engage with you in an informed debate about my favorite subject. Otherwise your are just another guy whose belief system i have offended and due to lack of evidences resorts in insults and personal offeces.
    regards
    anthony

    Reply
      Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:Guru Guru
      Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
      Date: Apr 12, 2008, 17:46
      Also, I would like to add that i do not pretend to be objective. there is no such thing. I have stated my admiration for osho. I do not claim to be objective... but informed.
      that is all
      regards
      anthony

      Reply
Pankaj Mohan: Move on enlightened ones....why waste thy time and energy!
WWW: proaudience.com
Email: proaudience@gmail.com
Date: Apr 14, 2008, 1:10
The relentlessness of Osho baiters is amazing. I have, as a distant fan of Osho, always disliked overt worshiping by some of his disciples. In fact, many of them come out sounding very boring with their usual blabbers, Osho did this and that. But, the kind of personal attack the Anti-Osho individuals are trying to forge their way with is highly sickening. While it may draw away some of those who might be seeking to learn about Osho for the first time, which should satisfy these fellas, the majority feels disgusted about these individuals.

It may create some curiosity for a while to the sensationalist within us, but then people like me start saying who cares what Osho sniffed at or licked to when walking alive on this earth. None of my kind, which makes the majority, got interested to learn about his persona until his words began to sink in after listening to his discourses. It is not as if learning about his personal conduct will make his words sound unhealthier. So why waste your time abusing him? If you believed he was worthless, leave him at peace and move on...do something else. Nobody wants to know what Osho's estranged kins think about him now (most of whom maligning him rightly or wrongly were very close to him at some or the other point) like nobody wants to know why the next door living guy's wife eloped with somebody else.

Reply
asha rani: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Apr 14, 2008, 14:11
http://www.enlightened-sp irituality.org/rajneesh.h tml
The Enigmatic "Bhagwan," Osho Rajneesh

(Last revised on Jan. 1, 2008)

Concerning India's alleged Godman "Bhagwan" (Bhagavan) Rajneesh (n?©e Chandra Mohan Jain, 1931-1990), who in 1988, to clean up his PR image for better marketability, briefly preferred to call himself "Zorba the Budddha" and then in October 1989 renamed himself "Osho," there was, sadly, immense dysfunction. May his soul and all souls be in great peace and clarity in the One Divine Self!

Many thousands of disciples of Osho Rajneesh find him a beautiful enigma, and while many of these persons will openly admit as true nearly all the serious flaws and foibles pointed out by his many critics who've dared to speak publicly (such critics—including ex-Rajneeshee disciples James Gordon, Julian Lee, and especially Christopher Calder— are quoted at some length at this webpage), these faithful disciples nevertheless gloss over the problematic aspects and still express tremendous gratitude and appreciation for all that they learned and received from Rajneesh over their months or years with this "gifted" and "remarkable" man, as several of his devotees have described him in their emails to me. (See below, further on.)

Many of these disciples and fans of Osho Rajneesh further wonder why anyone should be at all interested to critique the unwholesome and unsavory aspects of the long-deceased "Bhagwan," when the only thing really important in life is "living from freedom" and "living from the heart, not the head." Yet former disciple Christopher Schnelle, in a long post on March 3, 2006 for the generally pro-Rajneesh forum rebelliousspirit.com, has written, in part, "What is more important – truth or feeling good?... I am writing about Osho because his lies and his deceit caused an enormous amount of pain for a lot of beautiful people. Most of these beautiful people have no idea that a sophisticated fraud was perpetrated on them and blame themselves for their deteriorating mental and physical health. Many of my sannyasin friends have great trouble sustaining this illusory happy fog and are taking more and more desperate measures to continue feeling good." (For the entirety of Schnelle's post, see further on, below.) At the same forum, Christopher Calder, Rajneesh's second Western disciple in the early 1970s, wrote on Oct. 19, 2005 and Aug. 18, 2007, "The Web is full of phony Osho propaganda sites that simply ignore all the scandals and the history of the cult. Most of the tell-all books are out of print and hard to find.... Will the next big cult use germ warfare as the Osho cult did, chemical warfare as the Aum Shinrikyo cult did? Or perhaps the next religious cult will graduate to nuclear warfare? Who knows? If human beings never learn that blind and unquestioning obedience to one 'perfect Master' or leader is dangerous and anti-evolutionary, then we will only have more disasters. [...] I am not saying Rajneesh was a complete fraud in the sense that he had nothing to offer. I just draw a clear line between what was good about him and where he went wrong, so that others in the future will not make the same tragic mistakes.."

In a clarifying threefold model I have presented elsewhere (click here to read more extensively), it is Absolutely true that "nothing is really happening," that all manifestation is "dream-like" and ultimately "empty" because there is only God, only Absolute Being-Awareness-Bliss, the One Alone, the all-transcending and unmanifest Spirit. One step down from this "Absolute-truth level" (paramarthika-satya) is what we might call the "psychic-soul" truth-level in which "whatever happens in manifestation is perfect," because all souls are sooner or later coming Home to perfect virtue and Divine awakening from soul-hood into Spirit, so that there's fundamentally nothing "wrong" or "problematic." Finally and more pragmatically, there is the mundane, "conventional-truth level" (vyavaharika-satya) involving the play of opposites, crucially including justice-injustice, true-false, good-evil, appropriate-inappropriate , skillful-unskillful. All three of these levels (Absolute truth, psychic-soul truth, and mundane conventional truth) are simultaneously true within this overall Nondual (Advaita) Reality. Losing the capacity to distinguish these three levels is a mark of great folly, not enlightened wisdom. And so, for instance, to excuse or overlook injustices occurring on this planet because "whatever happens is perfect" or because "this is all a dream, there's only God" is a tragic confusing of levels, and makes a mockery of the courageous work of all those who have ever endeavored to bring truth in place of lies, healing in place of harm, justice in place of injustice.

Hence, at this long webpage, various voices will be heard speaking intelligently and yes, critically, of someone who posed for nearly two decades as a "fully enlightened God-man." This webpage exists for the sake of truth and accountability, and as a cautionary for all those sincere persons who might currently or in the future be duped by similar con-men posing as God-men (or God-women).

Real spirituality, real freedom and real heart-love is invaluably precious, sublime, wholesome and holy, not at all mediocre or muddled as Rajneesh and so many others have made it and exploited it for personal profit.

=============


I first read a few of Rajneesh's earliest little books and a favorable biography (The Awakened One, by Vasant Joshi) circa 1978-1982 while in graduate school researching spiritual and psychological traditions. In the early 1980s I also saw a short film of excerpts from one of Rajneesh's talks, and was able to see first-hand his hypnotically slow, coy, seductive, and provocative manner of speech and body language, with his strange way of hissing the "s" sounds at the end of many of his words. I wasn't very impressed with Rajneesh, especially compared to some of the really tremendous spiritual masters i read about and/or met in person. I enjoyed Rajneesh's wild sense of wacky humor, often hilarious!—though author Tim Guest says that Rajneesh cribbed many of his best jokes from Playboy magazine, and too many of his jokes, alas, were slurs on ethnic and racial groups or just "juvenile scatological humor," as journalist Rohit Arya has assessed it, such as Rajneesh's long comedic essay on the "magical" word "F---," and his concluding, quite silly, probably sarcastic admonition that one wake up each morning and say "F--- you" five times (the entire routine from 1984, read by Rajneesh from a script, is viewable at www.youtube.com/watch?v=6 D7rWLzloOI&feature=re lated).

I appreciated the occasional good spiritual insight or well-turned phrase in Rajneesh's brash and eclectic teachings on awareness, witnessing, dis-identification, self-inquiry, inconclusiveness, and spontaneous action without the doer-sense. Such teachings were clearly influenced in most of the essential points and even the specific vocabulary by the talks and writings of Indian sage J. Krishnamurti, the Zen and Taoist masters, and other true sages whose books Rajneesh had extensively read (along with popularizers like Alan Watts whom Rajneesh had also read). But there were, alas, colossal problems with many of the teachings and personality characteristics of this so-called "spiritual master" or "Divine Incarnation." Just on the level of the teachings, it is clear that Rajneesh, who admitted that his favorite activity in childhood and adolescence was "to argue" (he once won an all-India debate contest), often delighted in expressing a spiritually unconventional viewpoint, regardless of whether it was truly enlightening. Rajneesh is lauded by followers and fans for his "brilliance" and "originality," but to questions on diverse topics he often responded just in a cleverly contrarian and quirky manner that is far more sophistry than sophia/wisdom. Much of what Rajneesh presented can promote an unrestrained "feel-good spirituality," but does it truly liberate one from the grossest and subtlest forms of attachment, aversion, and delusion? As for his own so-called "enlightenment" and personal example, it has been more than sufficiently documented by his closest former disciples that this dear soul Rajneesh suffered from all kinds of attachment, aversion and delusion. May we all be awake to the one Divine Reality!

My distinct impression (and there is always the slight possibility that i and other critics could be wrong!) is that Rajneesh was just another shooting star in the spiritual firmament, one of those strange but rather numerous fallen yogis who attain some glimpses or periods of a certain kind of "enlightened freedom," open up to become a channel for some unusual and palpable energies (leading mesmerized disciples to think they are in the presence of Divinity), but then sooner or later such figures become imbalanced and egocentrically full of themselves—proud, megalomaniacal, narcissistic, and/or disturbed by one or more other mental-emotional-psychic pathologies.

Further on at this long webpage, I will let others report more fully on Rajneesh's multiple pathologies. But one of the most unsavory elements I myself recall in Rajneesh's teachings is not just his sophistry for sophistry's sake, but his penchant for severely criticizing and dismissing the ideas of the great sages like Siddhartha Gautama the Buddha and Sankara (founder of Advaita Vedanta tradition), while in the process completely misrepresenting the teachings of the Buddha, Sankara and others. I thought this was extremely dishonest and corrupt, especially given that Rajneesh had been an academic earlier in life, a philosophy instructor at the collegiate level in India. He should have known better. It's immoral and base to misrepresent to your students the subtle views of illustrious figures and then to criticize these misrepresented views, thereby elevating yourself to a higher status than the persons criticized. In his talks and dictated writings, Rajneesh often utilizes this dishonest trick, lying in various ways to insure that his followers would see him as spiritually superior to every other figure who had ever appeared in religious history, including the Buddha, Sankara, Jesus, and many others.

Rajneesh's early talks (reproduced in the earliest Indian books and booklets) and later works are filled not just with some useful wisdom but also laced with ridiculously inaccurate, broad-sweeping generalizations about religion, society and human nature, and a quirky mix of self-effacing, feigned "humility" with self-inflated boasting. For instance, by his own account, he had attained the state of complete Enlightenment while sitting under a tree on March 21, 1953, though he "kept it a secret" for many years afterward. And he claimed, "I am the beginning of a totally new religious consciousness" (Ma Prem Shunyo, Diamond Days with Osho, 1992, p.217), and further bragged to the press during his time in Oregon that "I have had sex with hundreds of women" (nearly all of them disciples, thus violating an ancient ethical code for Gurus) and claimed that only his poor health kept him from having even more sex. What's more, he trumpeted that he was "the world's greatest lover" (a boast certainly disputed by some of his female disciples who knew him intimately). When he came to the USA in 1981, he claimed, "I am the Messiah America has been waiting for" (Hugh Milne, Bhagwan: The God That Failed). And so on.

What is one to do with many passages from Rajneesh like the following rather typical excess of demented hyperbole and distorted history, delivered during the height of his fame? "I say to you: forget God and forget the kingdom of God. I give you here and now. I say celebrate, because this life is a gift of existence to you.... I want it to be emphasized that this is the only religion. All those of the past were sick, pathological. They have made the whole world sick, and they are still doing it. They call it 'service to humanity.' Only the retarded and utterly mediocre people can believe in God." Rajneesh later even called Jesus a "crackpot" who "was trying to save the world but couldn't even save himself" (Hinduism Today, Sep. 1985, p. 3), though on other occasions he admitted that Jesus was an enlightened being, albeit not as enlightened as himself. Yet elsewhere he could be heard saying things like, "Reverend Jim Jones [of the Guyana mass-murder tragedy] and his people is really the logical conclusion of Jesus and the Christian theology." (from the "Osho: Absolutely Free to be Funny" interview with Rajneesh at www.youtube.com/watch?v=o tGQqO2TYMI&NR=1)

O n other occasions, Rajneesh's psychopathology was on display when he called both Gandhi and Hitler "violent torturers" in his ludicrously clumsy attempt to present the larger truth that we need not ever be too hard or self-mortifying toward our own bodymind: "To torture oneself or to torture others, both are diseases—the very idea to torture. Somebody is an Adolf Hitler, he tortures others; somebody is a Mahatma Gandhi, he tortures himself. Both are in the same boat—maybe standing back to back, but standing in the same boat. Adolf Hitler's joy is in torturing others, Mahatma Gandhi's joy is in torturing himself, but both are violent. The logic is the same—their joy depends on torture. Their direction is different, but the direction is not the question, their mind has the same attitude: torture." (Tao: The Pathless Path, 1977) "Both were great saints. The only difference was that Mahatma Gandhi had the Jaina characteristic very much developed in him... so he tortured himself. Adolf Hitler had the Mohammedan characteristic developed in him: he tortured others, he didn't torture himself. But both tortured. Whom they tortured is not of that much significance." (Zen: Zest, Zip, Zap and Zing, 1980) I submit that anyone who can ignore the different historical impacts of Gandhi's and Hitler's actions (Gandhi's nonviolent campaigns and Hitler's killing of six million Jews, Gypsies, et al.) to make these glib statements, let alone express great admiration for Hitler in other public talks, has serious mental problems.

============ =

RAJNEESH'S BIOGRAPHY

There was much, much more dysfunction to Rajneesh's personality and behavior, as pointed out by several of his former close disciples and other observers. We'll start from the beginning.... Born on December 11, 1931, to a Jain family in Kuchwada, Madhya Pradesh, central India, we see Rajneesh's dysfunction beginning in childhood, with a rebellious, contentious personality, which turned into a talent for debate: "As far back as I can remember, I loved only one game—to argue. So very few grown-up people could stand me." (Sue Appleton, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh: The Most Dangerous Man Since Jesus Christ, 1987, p. 15) Later in life Rajneesh would often say that he liked to say things that would disturb and shock people for the sake of "waking them up," etc., and this tendency seems to have started with his argumentative nature in childhood. Earning B.A. and M.A. degrees in Philosophy, and allegedly achieving his spiritual death-rebirth "Enlightenment" along the way in 1953 after experiments in death-defying fearlessness, beginning in 1957 he taught for three years at Raipur Sanskrit College then for six years at Jabalpur University in India. But he resigned in 1966 to further a lucrative ministry he had begun in 1960: a traveling provocative speaker, garrulous social critic and mesmerizing shaktipat-guru, going by the name Acharya ("Teacher") Shree Rajneesh. He became notable for his trendy meditation camps for upper-class Indians, his over-generalizing diatribes against Gandhi, religion, convention, repression, etc., and his racy talk about sexual openness, love, "total freedom," "the mysterious presence," dynamic meditation, etc. (His first major book was provocatively titled From Sex to Superconsciousness.) He confessed that he often liked to stir up controversy, "even if just for fun." Rajneesh may have earlier attained a certain fearlessness, but this is not necessarily full enlightenment—many sociopaths also operate from "fearlessness." Rajneesh obviously was not desireless, and still had lots of egoic attachments.

This aspect of his dysfunction emerged more explicitly when he crowded with his followers into a Bombay apartment in 1970, stopped traveling, and instituted a strange new religious movement of anti-renunciate, often ill-behaving "neo-sannyasins.&quo t; He next ostentatiously re-titled himself Bhagavan/Bhagwan, "Divine One" or "Blessed Lord," in May 1971, and then established an extremely counter-cultural growth center at Poona/Pune in March, 1974. This so-called "ashram," located in the affluent Koregaon Park suburb of Poona, was often crammed with up to several thousand paying residents and visitors (increasingly most of them westerners). It included much open sexual experimentation on the part of Rajneesh and his followers, including sex between adult males and female minors, and sex among many of the pre-pubescent children who had the misfortune to grow up in this new anti-family society. "We had a feast of fucking, the likes of which had probably not been seen since the days of Roman bacchanalia," later wrote Hugh Milne (Rajneesh's bodyguard). Rajneesh sanctioned several and later dozens of psychotherapy growth groups and encounter groups at the Poona center, run by assorted European and American therapists, the new "high priests" of Rajneeshism's blend of avant garde spirituality and pop psychology. In the more "advanced," no-limits, high-risk groups, there was massive experimentation not just with sensuality and subtle energies, but also more dangerously with anger, physical violence and sexual aggression (e.g., slapping, fighting, rapes), though the violence was finally banned by Rajneesh in January 1979. Meanwhile, a frail, asthma- and allergy-ridden Rajneesh daily and nightly talked and talked and talked, in English and in Hindi, on a wide range of topics, from the high-flown and happy to the pedantic, pedestrian, goofy, gossipy, bitter and bizarre. Followers slavishly turned the tape-recordings and "33 million words" into scores of money-making books. Rajneesh fled India in June 1981 to evade paying taxes and to escape persecution from Morarji Desai's conservative Janata Party and flak from Poona's offended residents (in 1980 a conservative young Hindu had tried to murder him by throwing a knife). It is important to note that Rajneesh's rise to fame in India in the late 1960s and 1970s was not just due to his maverick style, personal appeal, easy philosophy, and the notoriety of the sexed up atmosphere at his hedonist ashram, but also largely due to the organizational efforts and social connections of his first disciple and secretary, Ma Yoga Laxmi, the extremely well-connected daughter of a prominent wealthy businessman and close friend of many of the longtime-ruling Congress Party leaders, herself a rising political figure in the mid-1960s. Without Ma Laxmi, it's unlikely Rajneesh ever would have become quite so famous or powerful.

Coming to the USA on the dubious pretext of needing emergency medical treatment, Rajneesh spent the summer of 1981 at "Rajneesh Castle" near Montclair, New Jersey, created by his replacement secretary and occasional lover, the married Indian woman Ma Anand Sheela (b.1950). Rajneesh adopted a pose of public silence until he finally broke it with renewed talks in late 1984. In the meantime, the "Bhagwan" moved out west to a 64,000-acre ranch in Oregon's Wasco County (near the mid-point of Oregon's northern border), procured by Ma Sheela, where he resided with his lovers and his hundreds and then thousands of mainly American and European red-clad neo-sannyasin followers from late 1981 until late 1985. The commune-complex came to include the newly built Rajneeshpuram city and the taken-over tiny town of Antelope, 20 miles away. But Rajneesh's situation, and the situation of his trusting disciples, eventually turned from a "love-in" to a nightmare. The Rajneeshpuram commune had certainly made some remarkable strides (with all that free labor by several hundred and then a few thousand inmates working 12-16 hours daily) in developing within two years an admirably self-sustaining infrastructure on the dilapidated old Big Muddy Ranch: state-of-the-art reservoir, sewage system, telecommunications center, urban style residential spaces, 10-megawatt power substation, 85-bus public transportation system, airstrip, 88,000 square-foot meeting hall, 3,000 acres of cleared farmland, dairy and poultry farms, a post office, school and meditation university, fire and police departments, shopping malls, restaurants, discotheque, visitors' hotels, etc.

However, under monstrous Ma Sheela's ruthless, power-hungry tendencies (with Rajneesh's silence giving consent and authority), the Rajneeshpuram commune, "the ultimate Me Generation boarding school," as journalist Frances FitzGerald called it, with its utopian idealism about "authenticity" and "spontaneity," and gentler, kinder group therapy approach, became by late 1983 an embattled camp, patrolled by heavily armed guards, and increasingly obsessed with rigid authoritarian rules and regimentation, and compulsory financial contributions and assorted money-making schemes, local and worldwide. "The commune was transformed into something indeed resembling a repressive, fascistic, totalitarian theocracy" (E.P. Wijnants), "the closest thing to an Eastem Bloc experience in the United States" (Lewis Carter).

The criminally-behaving Ma Sheela and select leading members of the neo-sannyasin throngs embroiled themselves in awful controversy, with open hostility, multiple lawsuits, and even murder plots and terrorist crimes against local Oregonian residents and government officials. This included the worst mass bioterrorism incident in U.S. history—751 Oregonians sickened at ten restaurants in The Dalles from deliberate salmonella poisoning by Ma Sheela's cronies in order to steal a 1984 county election for the Rajneeshees by keeping non-Rajneeshee citizens from the voting booths. The attack crippled the local economy as fear spread. And the restaurant poisoning was just a first step: Sheela's troops planned to poison the town's water supply, and in their bioweapons lab they experimented with creating a live AIDS virus for use against civilians in nearby towns. In 1985, Sheela's inner circle conspired to kill the U.S. Attorney for Oregon, Charles Turner, after he was appointed to head a federal grand jury investigation of the commune.

Evidence indicates that a xenophobic local Christian populace and a covert federal government activity had exacerbated the paranoid mindset of Sheela and commune-leaders with an early and ongoing campaign of harassment and litigious resistance to the development of Rajneeshpuram. But, as journalist Rohit Arya has written, Rajneesh's disciples in Oregon "continued the obnoxious behaviors they had learnt in Pune when dealing with the locals and they got everybody's unremitting hatred as a consequence. They were in the heart of the Bible-belt of America and they did everything they could to give offence." Ma Sheela and her crazed crew, who were spying on fellow commune members through wiretapping, at one point even began to target many inmates of Rancho Rajneesh, and a mass lethal poisoning of hundreds or thousands of neo-sannyasins was almost carried off one night, their lives spared only by an accidental mix-up and last-minute canceling of the diabolical plot by Sheela.

One of my pro-Rajneesh correspondents, Sandra Johansen, admits that a dear woman friend, a member of the "inner circle" around Rajneesh at Rajneeshpuram, thought that a now "unenlightened" and very reclusive Rajneesh completely "lost it" during this time in Oregon. He finally began to speak again in late 1984, but he seems to have done very little to counter Ma Sheela's policies, except to begin creating a new bloc of neo-sannyasin supporters as a rival power-base. On September 15, 1985, Sheela and her minions suddenly left the commune for refuge in Europe; Rajneesh later that day held a press conference, accusing her and her followers of stealing millions of dollars and attempting to murder him, his doctor, his dentist, his girlfriend, and some local politicians. He now publicly repudiated the "Rajneeshism" religion that Sheela had formally instituted in his name and even repudiated his own role as guru, for he had insisted two months earlier that he did not have "followers, only fellow travelers." He also asked the FBI to conduct an investigation into Sheela's activities (she would later serve a jail sentence). Many observers think that this public declaration by Rajneesh was mere "damage control," and assert that he had approved of most of Sheela's policies the entire time. This assessment is contested by other observers, who want to put all the blame on Sheela and her co-conspirators. Yet the big question remains: why did Rajneesh ever pick the cold-hearted Ma Sheela as his secretary in the first place, train her in heavy-handed authoritarianism, and continue to let her have so much organizational power in the Rajneesh Foundation International?

The U.S. government finally kicked Rajneesh out of the country in late 1985 for multiple counts of immigration fraud, the most benign of several serious charges against him. (After trying to flee the country, Rajneesh was jailed for 12 days, fined $400,000, given a 10-year suspended sentence, and ordered to leave the country and not return for a minimum of 5 years.) After being rejected by 21 other countries, the old tax evasion charges were settled in India and in 1986 Rajneesh returned with those disciples still faithful to him (many of his most trusted aides had left) to his six-acre ashram in Poona, India, where he ruled a renewed, burgeoning kingdom.

In Dec. 1988 Rajneesh said that he should no longer be called "Bhagwan," that he was not God Incarnate, that "the joke was over," and that he was actually hosting the Buddha's soul (another bad joke), hence he was now to be known as "Rajneesh Gautaman the Buddha" (Star Telegram, Dec. 29, 1988), though four days later he ejected the Buddha's austere spirit, and renamed himself "Zorba the Buddha" to honor his own pleasure-mongering tendencies. In late 1989, he renamed himself "Osho," derived from a Japanese term meaning "the whole man" and also from William James' term "oceanic experience." These re-namings were evidently at least in part intended for PR purposes, to make the public forget his sordid past as Rajneesh.

Just a few months after taking his new name, "Osho" died from heart-failure on January 19, 1990 in his 59th year, his passing celebrated by 10,000 ashram residents. His Poona II ashram had grown from 6 to 32 acres, and become known as Osho Commune International, "the most Western and opulent of all ashrams in India," as author Roger Housden saw it. By the late 1980s the open promiscuous sex and frequent nudity of earlier years with Rajneesh was abandoned (after his growing concern over the international AIDS crisis) in exchange for a somewhat more demure lifestyle. The Osho Commune International has more recently been turned by the ruling members of the Inner Circle into a "de-Osho-ized" Osho Meditation Resort luxury spa, with most of the ubiquitous Osho Rajneesh photos taken down. A displeased group of mostly Indian followers have left to set up their own lucrative operation, Osho World, up in Delhi. Meanwhile, a highly profitable merchandizing machine continues to spew out "Osho" products, many consumers not realizing that the whitewashed Osho books, tapes, DVDs, CDs, etc., feature the notorious cult-leader formerly known as Rajneesh. The Indian government now promotes the Osho sites as a magnet for tourist revenues.

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Resources on Rajneesh:
A well-done British television documentary on Osho Rajneesh from the late 1980s is Scandal, viewable for free under the title Osho: The Man Who Was God, at www.youtube.com/watch?v=i 4Ck8pLuyu0 (one of around 900 video clips on Rajneesh viewable at YouTube). A well-researched short history of Rajneesh and his movement is Elizabeth Skane's 8-page article on "Osho (or Rajneeshism)" for Sociology 257, Spring 1999, posted at religiousmovements.lib.vi rginia.edu/nrms/rajneesh. html. Much more extensive analyses of the pros and cons of Rajneesh's personality and leadership dynamics can be found in the largely excellent collection of essays, Osho Rajneesh & His Disciples: Some Western Perspectives (Harry Aveling, Ed.), Motilal Banarsidass, 1998, with especially worthy contributions by Ronald Clarke (on Rajneesh's colossal narcissism), Susan Palmer (on his love of adulation for his "performance" but his abdication of pastoral responsibility), Carl Latkin (on social control and intergroup conflict at Rajneeshpuram), and others. See, too, four earlier works: Susan Palmer & Arvind Sharma (Eds.), The Rajneesh Papers: Studies in a New Religious Movement, S. Asia Books, 1993; Lewis Carter, Charisma and Control in Rajneeshpuram: A Community without Shared Values, Cambridge Univ. Press, 1990; Bob Mullan, Life As Laughter: Following Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, Routledge & Kegan Paul, 1984; and Frances FitzGerald, Cities on a Hill: A Journey Through Contemporary American Cultures, Simon & Schuster, 1986 (the long, very informative section on Rajneeshpuram was published in two parts in The New Yorker magazine, Sept. 22/29, 1986). See also work by scholar Judith M. Fox, Osho Rajneesh (Studies in Contemporary Religion Series, No. 4), Signature Books, 2002; Hugh Urban, "Zorba The Buddha: Capitalism, Charisma and the Cult of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh," for the academic journal Religion, Vol. 26, No. 2, April 1996, pp. 161-182; and an untitled paper by Dr. E.P. Wijnants posted at soc.world-journal.net/Raj neesh.html (on Rajneesh and his community's failed, paranoid attempt to enact the Nietzchean "superman" ideal). See also the 20-part investigative series on the Rajneeshees by The Oregonian newspaper, beginning on June 30, 1985; journalist Linda Ilene Solomon's article "Dance Into Darkness," New Age Journal, Nov/Dec, 1992; and the explicit 1980 documentary film on Rajneesh and Poona One, "Ashram" by former German Rajneeshee Wolfgang Dobrowolny.

Of the numerous other, less scholarly books—pro, con, and mixed—see James S. Gordon, Golden Guru: The Strange Journey of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, Stephen Greene Press, 1987 (by a NIMH psychiatrist); Hugh Milne, Bhagwan: The God that Failed, St. Martin's Press, 1987 (by a former personal bodyguard-disciple); Rosemary Hamilton & Rosemary Lansdowne, Hellbent for Enlightenment: Unmasking Sex, Power, & Death With a Notorious Master, White Cloud Press, 1998 (Hamilton was Ma Nirgun, Rajneesh's cook for a time); Satya Bharati Franklin, The Promise of Paradise: A Woman's Intimate Story of the Perils of Life With Rajneesh, Station Hill Press, 1992 (by a very close early disciple and "ghostwriter" of some of his books in English, author of a 1981 book praising Rajneesh as God incarnate); Sue Appleton, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh: The Most Dangerous Man Since Jesus Christ, Germany: Rebel Publ. House, 1987 (largely favorable); Kate Strelley (with Robert San Souci), Ultimate Game: The Rise & Fall of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, HarperCollins, 1987; Tim Guest, My Life in Orange: Growing Up With The Guru, Harvest, 2005 (on the damage done to children in the Rajneeshee movement); etc. Beyond the several "pro-Rajneesh" websites, see also critical websites on Rajneesh such as the fairly extensive file of materials assembled by cult expert Rick Ross at www.rickross.com/groups/r ajneesh.html, and the long essays by former early disciple Christopher Calder (see below).

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CRITICS AND FANS SPEAK OUT ON RAJNEESH

It is claimed that, at the peak of his fame in the early 1980s, Rajneesh had 200,000 followers, around 5,000 of whom lived at Rajneeshpuram in Oregon in 1983-5 (swelling to 15,000 during the special summer activities), the other followers attending some 600 Rajneesh centers and communes worldwide, a number that dwindled to about 20 active centers by the late 1990s. Some followers were initially attracted to Rajneesh as "the Divinely-realized Guru." But no small amount of his allure was due to his seductive manner of speech and body language, his provocatively outrageous and contrarian speech content, his reputation from 1968 onward as "the sex Guru" (telling people they'd become more spiritual through unrepressed and extensive sexual exploration), and his later notoriety as "the rich man's Guru" (in justifying his accumulation of 93 Rolls Royces, costly designer watches, and other expensive toys).

Many Rajneesh followers, especially of more recent years, may not know the full details of their teacher's pathology as it emerged over time. And, to repeat, many Rajneesh disciples do know of these details, yet still love Rajneesh and are grateful for their time with him and his teachings. We leave readers to sort out for themselves whatever they wish to believe about Osho Rajneesh. The following facts and opinions are data for better assessing the enigmatic phenomenon that was this man Rajneesh.

Research psychiatrist James S. Gordon, MD, in the early 2000s serving as chairman of the White House Commission on Complementary and Alternative Medicine (WHCCAMP), interviewed Rajneesh several times and talked with many neo-sannyasin close disciples over some 15 or more years of deep participation-observation within the Rajneesh movement, in both India and the USA, from the early 1970s to at least 1989. James Gordon's involvement in the movement and his positive views of Rajneesh are far more extensive than he has publicly admitted (as shown by E. Patrick Curry), thus Dr. Gordon is one of the most interesting and credible critics of Osho Rajneesh. In his book The Golden Guru: The Strange Journey of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh (Stephen Greene Press / Viking Penguin, 1987/8), Gordon has a lot of positive and apologetic things to say of Rajneesh, his teachings and his techniques.

But Gordon has also emphatically and critically written (in a book-excerpt published in Utne Reader in March/April 1989): "Rajneesh... failed to live what he knew and taught. He ignored what he did not care to deal with in himself, tried to silence or obliterate people or situations or points of view that threatened or contradicted him. From the time he broke his 'silence' in October 1984, he said again and again, 'I am just an ordinary man... ordinariness is blessed.... Gods are projections.' But every day he continued to act more special, more controlling and godlike, more removed from the flux of life and from his own and others' ordinary humanity. In the end, Rajneesh became the kind of man, the kind of religious leader, he had always derided. If indeed his ego had once dissolved and melted like a drop into the ocean, it seemed over the years to have renewed and enlarged, and in his isolation it grew gross with his attachment to power and luxury and position. He became more power-hungry and more deceitful than any of the politicians he attacked,... more sanctimonious than the saints he derided. On his [Oregon] ranch, surrounded by armed guards, dressed up and doped up, imperious and imperial, he resembled Jim Jones far more than Buddha or Krishna or Jesus. He was unwilling to learn or change, or to admit that there was anything to be learned or changed." In his book and in a subsequent article for The Washington Post, Gordon speaks of the "Bhagwan's" policies of pressured sterilizations of female disciples, and Rajneesh's knowing tolerance of things like female disciples engaging in prostitution in order to remain at his commune in Poona, drug running by certain disciples for the same purpose, and the physical, emotional and verbal violence occurring as an acceptable technique in the psychotherapy groups held at the Rajneesh ashrams and remote centers.

Author Sandra Johansen, a disciple of Rajneesh for six early years (and then a disciple of Papaji), working on a novel that centers on a figure closely modeled on Osho Rajneesh, has written me several emails in order to provide me a subtler, richer, and overall far more positive assessment and appreciation for the "enigma" that was/is Rajneesh. While she agrees with many of Rajneesh's critics on numerous points of criticism of Rajneesh's flaws, and even remarks that she thinks Osho "lost" his "enlightenment," ; she also believes there is a larger view of the man needing to be seen. From what she writes, it is also evident to me that Rajneesh's person and his teachings could be easily viewed as an example of what i have elsewhere called the "Sensual Ecstatic" spiritual temperament, which is far more Dionysian than Apollonian in its characteristics (see my model of the "Twelve Spiritual Temperaments"). With Sandra's permission i've put together some of her different remarks about her erstwhile teacher into one passage:

Sandra Johansen writes:

"I believe a lot of what is written by [critics like Hugh Milne, Christopher Calder, Julian Lee, et al.] is in fact true but there is also a lot about Osho that would have cast the now deceased 'Sex Guru' in a somewhat more favourable light.... I personally met Osho on over a hundred separate occasions and I could not honestly claim to be an expert on him. If nothing else the man was an enigma and without doubt the most remarkable man I've ever met in my life and I've had the good fortune to have met a number of remarkable human beings. My rule of thumb for understanding anyone is how much I understand myself.... The divine spark that ignites the love in my heart has proven to be all that's needed even when passing through the darkest of life's valleys. It hasn't always been so but it is thanks in part to Osho that I am where I am now and if our paths were to miraculously cross again I'd thank him from the bottom of my heart for those wonderful things he taught me about what it is to be human.... One of the things I enjoyed about Osho was his acceptance of who I was as a unique being. He helped me on the way to understanding that God (dog spelled backwards) had appeared as me and there is nothing more to be done.... He helped me to witness life as a fascinating drama. In return existence has gifted me at times with a thoughtless state which is neither this or that....

"You know miracles happened around Osho on a daily basis in Poona One. Nothing cheap like producing watches or holy water. Real miracles like giving eyesight to the spiritually blind and helping people who were crippled not only to walk but to dance as well. Really that crazy guy did that just by being who he was.... I watch people put Osho down and I smile remembering how I watched the toughest of egos melt like butter in his hands. What a rogue he was. A rogue who could steal your heart with a gentle word or a smile. He was very much like Lord Krishna in that sense. Gopis weren't subtle nerve endings they were cowgirls with big breasts who loved to dance around their master. Osho was having sex with his female disciples. Wow— could he do that and still be enlightened? Easy. If Osho's in hell I won't mind joining him because boy did that man know how to throw one hell of a party, bring on the dancing girls, get the boys in the band to strike up a tune and by god we'll have a good time. I see it as the most fundamental of life's duties for us to celebrate existence, for it is indeed true that out of this world that the lotus of enlightenment grows.

"Osho walked utterly alone. Despite the hulla balloo about his fleet of gleaming limos he lived very simply. I remember being in his room, it was minimalistic to the max and as cold as a fridge. He lived in that air conditioned cell for years. When in it I closed my eyes and my brain lit up like it was plugged into the national grid.... Osho was in many ways a God Child not a God Man. I loved that about him. That mischievious playful quality that endeared him to so many. I loved it so much it has become a part of me.... The old guru idea like the Hindu dream of Yogananda is a comfortable one, with the wise men cast like benevolent uncles. Osho wasn't your uncle because he wasn't nice. Yet somehow he understood something of the beyond which so few even glimpse because they don't want to change. To view him as a charlatan was easy. Perhaps this is why people like C [Christopher Calder, a very early disciple turned critic] prefer to see him as such for to see him as the tremendous, wild, uncontrollable, playful, mind-blowing phenomenon that Osho was requires guts. It requires setting the judgmental mind aside and just blowing on those winds of crazy freedom. Most of our fear is tied in with radical change. As a consequence people tend to want to trash new information and paths rather than assimilate what's on offer. I once came close to completely letting go of my limited ego-self forever. I believed that is what I had been searching for but as I drew close to the edge I faltered and looked back. I saw that I wasn't quite ready to let go of everything. It was quite an awakening. Guess who brought me there - Osho. He chuckled and smiled at the shock on my face and then said, 'Very Good.' Sometimes the experience of spiritual power can be terrifying even if it chuckles.

"In the early days of Poona One many of the people at ground zero were hippies who'd come to the end of the psychedelic experience and were ready to take a step towards the thoughtless state which is not an experience but an experiencing. In many ways Osho was a hippie philosopher but unlike the hippie dream which capsized in a sea of unsupportable excess his dream worked - up to a point.... Osho saw a church forming around him and seeing as how he wasn't the churchy type he got around to demolishing it. What a carry-on ensued, Rolls Royces, Rolex's, let me feel your chakras darling, hey! why don't we poison the hillbillys?, oh goody lets get addicted to drugs, no enlightened master ever did that before even though good old Gurdieff liked his cognac. And then the mother of all stunts: Osho... loses enlightenment. What a teaching.... Recently a close friend had dinner with a key player from the [Oregon] ranch and Poona. She left the ranch and was pretty disillusioned with Osho, she thinks he seriously lost it in Oregon and she would have been in a position to know as she had a lot of personal contact with him during that troubling time...."

[Sandra speaks of seeing Rajneesh back at Poona One ashram, during the nightly darshans:] "There he sat, as patient as a Buddha, listening to people talk about their chakras opening and all off that nonsense kind of stuff that people think is spiritual. Of the six years I hung out around him the most common questions that his disciples asked concerned their love relationships. How can you imagine that feels when you're crying from the rooftops that aloneness is God and the ones closest to you ask 'Osho, I'm having relationship problems.' I'll tell you how it feels, it feels like get me another Rolls Royce quick - a red one. I could write a book about it and that's why I'm in the process of doing just that."

(—here end the composite excerpts from Sandra Johansen)

In a few places in Sandra's emails, not just in the last paragraph cited above, Sandra has written of the "utter aloneness" and "agony" and "woes" of the enlightened, who must patiently endure the unenlightened questions and tendencies of their hapless, hopeless students, and that this is why someone like Osho Rajneesh "acted out" on occasions with his desires and needs. But as I finally pointed out to Sandra in one email:

"Closely look at truly stupendous beings like Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi, Bhagavan Nityananda, Mata Amritanandamayi, Anandamayi Ma, Anasuya Devi, Nisargadatta Maharaj, and many others (not just from Hindu tradition). The authentic and really vast, profound enlightenment they underwent extinguished all problematic sense of separative self that could feel 'agony' or 'aloneness' (except in the ultimate sense of Kaivalya - Aloneness / All-Oneness). Rajneesh even had a longtime girlfriend [Ma Yoga Vivek / Christine Woolf], as i understand from reading Calder and others, so he had a close personal beloved with whom he could privately share his angst. So this entire argument sounds a bit to me like 'special pleading' on behalf of someone who wasn't fully free from the beginning, and who predictably began to have some psychological and emotional problems rooted in a subtle, insidious sense of self. All the inflation and aggrandizing of that self (by himself and others) could not stave off a certain 'crash,' and then had to come the compensations (as you specified in an earlier email: the Rolls-Royces, etc.).... I know this sounds harsh, but we really need to distinguish between the fully enlightened on the one hand, and, on the other hand, those individuals like Rajneesh who have powerful glimpses of real awakening, kensho/satori experiences (in Zen language), but then fall back into their egoic samskaras [binding attachments-aversions] and karma-producing tendencies. It seems like it was just assumed far too early (by both Rajneesh and his followers) that he was 'fully enlightened,' not just a very talented, experienced, insightful, charismatic guy who'd made some spiritual breakthroughs into fearlessness, exhilaration, etc. And on the basis of this idea that he was 'fully enlightened' everyone got into some trouble; though, as you say, all sorts of good things happened too! I could starting naming for you dozens and dozens of figures similar to Rajneesh who claimed (or had others claiming) that they were 'fully enlightened,' but none of these have authentically lived from that Holy Wholesomeness beyond the needy self."

Sandra then responded, writing, in part:
Absolutely great e-mail.... Yes I am pleading on Osho's behalf, he was such an adorable sweetie pie. Yes, he probably was not fully enlightened. Yet through it all the enigma of who he was shines through.... One question comes up for me. How do you determine if a person is enlightened or not?

So I wrote back to Sandra a note of clarification:

>How do you determine if a person is enlightened or not?

Sandra, such a truly enlightened one has dropped the binding samskaras, the problematic attachments and aversions. The Buddha's models of the "seven enlightenment factors" and, especially, the "ten fetters" are very detailed sets of further criteria. Note that fetters 4 and 5 are comprised of "samskaric attachments and aversions"; the even subtler fetters (6-10) are restlessness, pride/conceit, attachment to subtle-form (heaven) realms, attachment to nonform realms (i.e., certain states of consciousness, not awake to Consciousness Itself), and, finally, the root ignorance of any sense of separate self. Evidently Rajneesh was not free of several of these ten fetters (e.g., recall his self-inflated narcissistic boasts, the attachments to sex and expensive toys, the delight in stirring up controversy for the sake of controversy, elevating himself above earlier sages [Sankara, the Buddha, et al.] by misrepresenting and criticizing their views, etc.). Going further, where, really, was the truly heroic self-sacrifice and the love/compassion? (—we've heard of too many incidents reported by former close disciples of the lack of these traits). And where was that "all-seeing" "functional omniscience" reported of the Buddha and, more recently, of Ramana Maharshi, Mata Amritanandamayi, and several others? Maharshi, persistently asked if he was omniscient, finally responded: "I know what i need to know when i need to know it"—and numerous, numerous stories of paranormal knowingness have been reported of him and beings like Amritanandamayi, et al.

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As an example of the premature claims of enlightenment, back in 1970, Rajneesh disciple Swami Yoga Chinmaya (Kriyananda), who helped Rajneesh teach classes for rich Indian businessman at various meditation camps, extolled Rajneesh in the following enthusiastic words, words that in retrospect seem quite overblown: "Acharya Rajneesh is an Enlighted One, who has become one with Infinity, the Totality. He is NOT, but the Infinity breathes through him. He is not a person but the Divinity personified. Transcendental Truth shines every moment through him.... He is not living in Cosmic Consciousness, but has become the Cosmic Consciousness itself.... He lives beyond Cosmos, beyond Being—in No-Being, in No-thingness, in Great Void—Nirvana." ("Acharya Rajneesh: A Glimpse," preface to Acharya Rajneesh, Flight of the Alone to the Alone, Bombay, 1970)

But listen to former disciple Julian Lee, who has written (at www.Celibacy.info) of Rajneesh's deeply problematic personality and teachings: "Rajneesh/Osho is the worst thing that ever happened to spirituality in the west. He rode herd over a mob of naive, idealistic spiritual seekers, but definitely lacked the traits of an enlightened master. Enlightened masters are not drug addicts. They do not turn Dharma on its head— like calling 'sannyasins' ["renunciates"] those who adopt a path exactly opposite of Indian sannyas. They generally don't get arrested and have their mug shots taken, and ignomiously deported— especially the Indian saints. (Christ was one notable historical exception to this rule.)... More to the core, an enlightened master does not encourage his disciples to abandon time-honored moral norms— especially the dharma concerning sex restraint. Osho was basically a kind of pimp who used the base desires of average people, along with their beautiful hunger for real spirituality, to build a financial empire and a following of worshippers who would do whatever he asked. When I think back about that 'baby boomer generation' of sincere spiritual seekers— all those intelligent, skilled young men and women of European descent like me— it makes me so sad. What a harvest of potential saints that was! How much good might have arisen if all those young, idealistic westerners could have fallen in with a legitimate spiritual master— say, a Vivekananda or a Ramakrishna. We will never know! I look at them today, and their condition, and they have missed the boat. Thousands of sincere western seekers were misled and harmed by the novel teachings of Osho. I have seen many of them in the aftermath. They always lack the satvic glow that comes from yogic sex restraint; they look like spent rakes aged well beyond their actual years. Even in their age— when they might show some spiritual attainment— many still crave sex, and all the ordinary base things. Despite Osho's 'indulgence technique,' they never got over sex addiction and lust. This was one of the Big Lies that Osho told: That by indulging your sex desire you would transcend it. The great sages of Yoga spoke the real and opposite truth: You get over sexual lust not by feeding it, but by restraining it until you encounter the higher thrill of meditative bliss. Meanwhile, it is only that renunciation— the storing of the sexual energy— that enables one to contact the transcendental bliss. This has been the message of the sages through all time, including Lord Buddha, who was frequently ripped off by 'the Bhagwan.' Osho's teachings, though sprinkled here and there with mystical truths, were dead wrong in the most basic ways, and ultimately spiritually destructive. The proof is in the pudding. Christ said that one can know a true Master by the 'fruit' that emerges from him. Through his disciples Osho gave us moral and family breakdown, drug addiction, a disturbed childhood for many, and crime— even terrorism. Osho set Yoga back in the west perhaps hundreds of years. The saddest thing is what happened to all those children of Osho followers. Osho wanted them to grow up not knowing who their Fathers were; raised by a mob, with no particular person as Parent. I can't think of anything much more ignorant, or more cruel. Krishnamurti was right: Osho was a criminal."

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Sociologist Dr. E.P. Wijnants reports: Dave Frohnmayer, the Oregon Attorney General who had written his Harvard honors thesis on Nietzsche and Lenin, said at the time [of the huge controversy over Rajneeshpuram in Oregon in the mid-1980s] that he saw in Rajneesh the same �individual self-aggrandizement,� the same �relativity of truth,� the same �disengagement from ethics,� that he had discovered in Nietzsche’s concept of the Superman. Rajneeshism to him was a teaching that did not encourage compassion, or what the Buddhists called Karuna, the selfless love for all sentient beings. To Frohnmayer it encouraged guilt-free indulgence, individual self-aggrandizement, and a smugness about being on a spiritual path. Given the above, this came to be coupled with a supercilious, disdainful and, indeed, hostile attitude towards other people. (http://soc.world-journal .net/Rajneesh.html)

Hu gh Milne, formerly Shivamurti, one of Rajneesh's several closest associates in the 1970s, wrote in 1987 about the callous attitude of Rajneesh concerning his own ashrams in India and in Oregon: "He had little compassion or regard for the feelings of others. There were to be many deaths in the ashrams, both from suicide and from hepatitis and other diseases that could have been cured with proper medical attention. Rajneesh never gave enough money for food in the ashrams, and was not concerned when we worked too hard or slept too little." (Milne, Bhagwan: The God that Failed, 1987, p. 105)

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Paul Ramana Das Silbey visited Rajneesh’s Poona One ashram in India in Oct.-Dec., 1978, which at that time had about 800 residents, and he later expressed his concerns in a widely-read article, "Meetings with Remarkable Masters," for the publication Yoga Journal, July-August, 1979, Issue #27, pp. 36-43 (his section on Rajneesh and Poona One is located at pp. 37-9). Ramana Das was/is no prude, nerd, or scold, but was a traveling singer of Hindu devotionals, and later himself a practicing left-hand tantricist.]

[Here begins an excerpt from the Ramana Das article, "Meetings with Remarkable Masters," with some italics and boldfacing added by Timothy:]

After three months at [Neem Karoli] Baba's ashrams and temples in Northern India—full of his personal directives, guidance, and love, the moment came to travel south. Part of my trip had been set aside to visit the Rajneesh Ashram in Poona, and I timed my arrival to match the opening of the October English Camp. Every month, the ashram runs a 10-day intensive camp, to demonstrate the various Rajneesh techniques; one month the language is Hindu, the next, English. Although I came to Poona with a generally positive feeling about Rajneesh from some exposure to his tapes and books, and some participation in high-energy events at the San Francisco [Rajneesh] center, the reality that confronted me here caused me to totally reassess my previous experiences after two or three days.

There are no visitors quarters in the Rajneesh ashram. His popularity has created a mob scene, forcing most of his disciples and all newcomers to seek housing in the areas close by the ashram. However, the gates open early and close late, so everyone has a chance to hear Rajneesh in the morning, experience his meditation techniques during the day, participate in the ongoing groups (which make up the core of the teaching), and relax to pseudo-California mellow rock music in the evening.

Upon entering the ashram, I was quietly but thoroughly watched by ashram guards. I passed through the fortress-like wooden gates, into an entranceway with a huge hotel, chandelier, and entered the grounds. The disciples, or �sannyasins� as they are called, who work at the ashram, do so seven days per week and eight hours per day So, amongst much bustling around, I found out that in order to speak with Rajneesh, one must already be a sannyasi or be ready to become sannyasi. In other words, one can only speak with master if he is part of the master’s group, or anxious to join it. Since I wasn't that anxious, I simply paid for attendance in the group, and made an appointment with the staff head who assigns both visitors and sannyasins. Two of my, groups, the Enlightenment Intensive and Centering, I called "window-dressing&quo t; groups since they seem to be assigned to everyone entering the ashram for the first time. Both of these were nonviolent groups, designed for a quick experiential "hit," or for a pleasantly surprising instant effect, an unexpected moment of awareness. Other groups were purportedly deeply spiritual experiences, like the Zazen and Vipassana groups. However, the concentration normally required by these two disciplines seemed to break when the members joined the rest of the ashram to hear Rajneesh give discourse each morning. But the majority of the groups, such as the one I took Sarjana or creativity, dealt with energy, how it moved in each person and between persons.

Rajneesh has become a symbol for "letting go" and exploring all taboos, and I learned that the "meat and potatoes" of most groups were sex, sensuality, fantasy, repression, anger and violence—his leaders, his groups and his ashram all reflected this approach to enlightenment. As for unselfish, unconditional love, it was a quality and a vibration noticeable only by its lack of manifestation. To quote from one of the soothing mantras sung each night over and over again to the beat and melody of the Western ashram house band: 'Nothing is wrong, wrong cannot happen, wrong cannot exist.' And so it went at the ashram. As I stayed around the ashram in the succeeding weeks, many enlightening experiences [ironic use] touched my being.

There were: slave and master couples who toured the compound playing out their respective roles; the group where you could take home your slaves for the night (and where the lady in question had three males at her beck and call, until the morning); the sensitive young man who was roundly beaten up by a woman in his group because he reminded her of her younger brother; and so on.

What was more disturbing to me than this mutually-accepted "acting-out" society of orange residents, was the fact that the "responsible� guru, Rajneesh, was condoning and encouraging these forms of behavior, something that many people around the world would take as an endorsement of gross sex and violence. I also noticed that cathartic behavior and its reinforcement through Rajneesh's techniques carried over into a sannyasi's "regular" life. It was always surprising to hear how some sannyasi friend (who seemed so saintly, calm and centered) beat his girlfriend up each morning apparently with her consent, or how Western sannyasins went into the streets of conservative Indian towns tongue-kissing, crotch-fondling, et cetera [the cross-cultural equivalent, as some Indians lamented, of Catholic monks and nuns having full intercourse on the public streets of towns in Europe or America!-- Timothy].

Anyway, I did get to hear Rajneesh every day at early morning discourse and even sit in silent, private darshan with him a couple of times, after completing the groups I had signed up for. It was interesting that many of his sannyasins fell over and went to sleep when he started speaking. Although I was always firmly led to a position in the back of the room, I had very direct eye contact with Rajneesh each time since so many of the people in front of me melted away as his talks progressed. His discourses were full of power, charisma, and planned direction. No spoken or spontaneous questions were allowed. I felt that the atmosphere that surrounded him—paranoid guards, rigid planning and conformity to a prepared format—was nothing like the flowing �in the moment" beingness he advocates strongly in his books and tapes. So I guess the right words for the scene in Poona are contradiction and inconsistency. Sannyasins would glibly explain this away as a wonderful technique to destroy the ego, and at a certain level that’s probably true. It seemed to me that many people with internal chaos and unfulfilled desires were attracted to this Poona ashram. They were offered group expression and acceptance that they could not get anywhere else.

The ebb and flow between high-energy and vacuousness represented a world of emotional extremes where ashramites alternately repressed and blocked their fantasies, then allowed them to blossom in astonishing displays. I saw Rajneesh as the Walt Disney of the �80s, and Poona as his Disneyland where, for the price of a general admission plus an extra charge for specific "rides,� each customer could get his or her share of �emotional� entertainment. One night it struck me—as Rajneesh was giving his benign darshan in the back of the ashram, as the house band was playing danceable chants, as an enlightenment intensive group was asking �Who am I?� on the top of one building, while the violent encounter was beating its way along in the basement. Here I was in Hollywood East, Rajneeshland, on location for the greatest Hollywood movie of all time, starring a Charleton Heston-like god-image, replete with a groovy score, sex and violence, scads of beautiful and diaphonously dressed, long-haired ladies dancing and twirling in sensual abandon, all manner of group experimentation (centering around energy, sex, anger, and the other �deadly’ sins), and an audience that had become part of the action by coming to the ashram to experience this supercosmic circus at first hand! How much more three-dimensional could a producer get?

I also came to feel that the group titles were selected by a publicity agent, keyed for their timeliness and audience appeal. Perhaps this year or next, there would be groups with such catchy titles as "Death," �Ritual Sacrifice and other Ancient Group Experiences," "Cannibalism and Other Forms of Food Recycling," and possibly, "Parents and Children—the only group where all can be explored together."... * [see following note]

----------

* Yoga Jounal Editor’s note: According to a press release from the Rajneesh Foun

Reply
    : RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Date: Apr 14, 2008, 15:16
    The same mile long garbage yet again? I couldn't know either if it was in favor of or against Osho. Who the hell would like to read that Encyclopedia time and again anyway? One may go through it once in a while may be just for a change, but this is lengthening like Ekta Kapoor serials.

    One should wonder now if the forum owners or the Oshoites were doing it themselves. As an avid internet surfer, I have realized this simple truth about drawing in more traffic...throw some controversies around, and boards get jammed with pro and anti sentiments. Hmm...good food for thought, isn't it?!

    Reply
    Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
    Date: Apr 14, 2008, 15:16
    I would very much appriciate that we do not post whole articles here, just the links to them, otherwise it is difficult to know exactly what to answer to. I preffer personaly, informed opinions than having to contest full articles. I was not very pleased when my full article was posted here. So, what does asha rani wants to point out?
    regards
    anthony

    Reply
    judy: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: enjoyingthis@hotmail.com
    Date: Apr 14, 2008, 15:23
    asha rani, completely lost in words, understanding nothing, another heart wasting, asha rani

    Reply
      asha rani: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      Date: Apr 15, 2008, 7:34
      I am on both sides and the good in the man i agree and accept , the bad in the man i agree and accept and i accept Calder for freely expressing his views and i like Anthony as well for freely expressing his views thats freedom to me, and Pankaj mohan who asked u to read the whole Ekta kapoor crap if u did not like it.
      MY POINT ANTHONY IS CLEAR I LOVE THE CALDER AND I LOVE THE ANTHONY BOTH,and to whoever it concerns i know my path i know i am not lost and its completely my point of view ,in my sweet world, and yes i might be wrong in your world
      if any one thinks i am lost but in that person's world only.
      THAT ARTICLE WAS NOTHING JUST A CRAP TO STIR UP MY POINT.SEEING THE PAIN AND AGONY BY PROTESTING OR NOT PROTESTING OSHO IS ONE AND THE SAME FOR ME .EITHER I FIND THE CALDER GROUP OR THE ANTHONY GROUP BT NOBODY BALANCED APART FROM THE ONE OR TWO AND IT WAS EVIDENT BY THE RESENTMENT FROM ONE GROUP OR THE OTHER .MY POINT I REPEAT AGAIN IS ACCEPTENCE OF THE BOTH WHY SO MUCH RESENTMENT FOR THE BOTH. I MIGHT BE NOBODY TO TALK ABOUT ON THIS BUT IF THIS PAGE IS MADE THEN I DO DESERVE TO EXPRESS MYSELF.
      Thx
      Asha rani

      Reply
Pankaj Mohan: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: proaudience@gmail.com
Date: Apr 15, 2008, 14:34
@ asha rani,

I have a small time weblog, which redirects some Osho lovers to this debate once in a while, so that they may have a fair view about both sides, the pro and anti-Oshoism. My comments to your earlier post were merely a passing reference, nothing more.

And now over to you and Anthony. I'm out of it.

To others:

Despite being inclined more towards the Pro-Osho view points, I have myself attempted to raise an opinion about accepting both the sides, but hardly anybody seems to be interested in being part of any such alliance. And the reason seems to be, the intensity by which both the sides make their opinions well known, which simply doesn't allow any breathing space the rest others. Anyway, the issues being raised here may carry a great deal of significance for those who may have seen the Guru from a close distance or his Sanyasins. It makes nothing more but a spicy and colorful talk for the rest other Osho fans like me.

One's guess is now, the debate might only end after most of these participants had lost their hair and teeth over the years, and had more urgent worries to cope on with.

This is the right time for Mulla Nasruddin to make an appearance and help this debate fizzle out...so, where is the rustic, age old Mulla? We are awaiting!

Reply
    Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
    Date: Apr 15, 2008, 16:55
    Friends. I´d rather discuss about the subject than the structure of the conversation. however, My point is not looking for balance but thruth. And for me, my research and the information I have, truth lies on facts...not supossitions. and facts can only be obteined directly from the people directly involved in the stories... which is what I have done. And this information contradicts calder ´s and other people´s supossitions. Now I was never present when all these things occur. I saw Osho in ´88 with thousands of other people. I was in no way close to him. So I do not know, personally, anything. But i have taken the time to talk to the people who have been mentioned in all these stories... and i get a different one.
    regards
    anthony

    Reply
      Asha rani: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      Date: Apr 15, 2008, 20:42
      Friends i simply have no issues with any one's point of view .I FOR NOW HAVE NO POINT OF VIEW as i am not a researcher nor i had direct contact with ........
      bt i am not foolish to underate or overrate anybody's personal experience .I wish all the luck in all the truth and the lies to whosoever it may concern. BUT I ACCEPT ALL THE POINT OF VIEWS BE IT ANYBODY.
      love
      Asha rani

      Reply
phil: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: gargantua1082004@yahoo.co.uk
Date: Apr 16, 2008, 23:29
truth has as many facets as the perspectives from which it is seen.
it is `perspectival`.
if you want to embody more truth,see more pespectives.
truth about `what happened`is a legalistic idea.
it works on the paper of a two dmensional mind.
or does it?

everything i have written here is a lie.



Reply
    sajyo: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Date: Apr 17, 2008, 4:28
    true

    Reply
      Anthony Thompson: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
      Date: Apr 17, 2008, 16:08
      In my understanding facts are facts. when I speak about truth I am not talking in metaphisychal terms but in terms of actual events. interpretations of those events may change from person to person, from perspective to perspective, But I have rarely engage in discussion around that. Even thou I have.
      My intention has been over and over refuting intertpretations based on my knbowledge of actual events.
      As an example, many people interpreted the relation that Osho had with Viovek as a finc?©, or romantic relationship. However, the facts are that neither Osho, nor vivek ever difined their relationship in those terms. In fact vivek had a number of steady, serious relationships with several men during the time she was with Osho. Osho and her might have had sex, but their description of the nature of their relationship was that of a disciple-master where she had the role of being his caretaker.
      Now if i want to see a romantic relationship there has to to with my guessing and interpretations, not with factuality.
      Another example has to do with the story and long discussion I had with calder regarding osho´s alleged NO2 addiction. I provided eyewitnesses accounts and the story of his dentist refuting all this, based on the facts that i had gathered. calder´s views had to do with what he guessed, like when he said that " it was obsvious for him that osho was on drugs when he saw him on the stage in the second annual world celebration in rajneeshpuram." he saw him with 15.000 other people, not close than 40 meters away and the man was in silence.
      These are not facts but guesswork and here is where i come in with my information.
      regards
      anthony

      Reply
phil: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: gargantua1082004@yahoo.co.uk
Date: Apr 17, 2008, 19:27
hi anthony,
don`t get me wrong.
you have done a good job in posting your stuff to balance out calder`s uneven and in part,fantasmic offerings.

but your `facts`are only what people have told you.and all those people you have interviewed have a clear investment and bias.

for example,was devageet really going to say:
`yeah man,he was doing a coupla jars of nitrous a day,i had to go to london to score some more,we were worried he`d blow his brains out`?
i doubt it.


the real point is that religion,enlightenment,my sticism,whatever you call it,is closer to humour than law.
it doesn`t respect the facts apart from the aim of the script.

it was osho who said
`the lie of the awakened man is more significant than the truth of the ordinary man`
now,that`s more dangerous than nitrous`











Reply
Pankaj Mohan: Another Holistic Vision, Which May Soon Get Fragmented!
Email: proaudience@gmail.com
Date: Apr 17, 2008, 20:07
I have to admit as a silent observer of this debate, that Anthony Thompson is the first serious answer to the kind of onslaught Calder has rightly or wrongly been carrying out against Osho and his people.

At the same time one should also try to acknowledge the significance of Calder himself, since it is he, who is able to narrate the other side of the story the world is so used to know about. Ironically, it is the people like me, who would like to listen to him, despite regarding him a bitter and a negatively biased person. Anthony wouldn't fit into that category, since he has taken a very clear stance - that of clinically analyzing his (Calder's) allegations against Osho.

But for others, the presence of Anti-Osho voices were a must and a way to know about the nature of the movement's pitfalls; why would otherwise the Oregon episode take place anyway? So good that Calder happened and made Osho and his movement sound like humans; Oshoism can hardly afford to be an idealistic vision like various faiths on this earth. But it's also very much possible that Calder was often off target (and Anthony is sure the former was) whenever accusing Osho. There may have been frictions going on among the followers as well (we have a breakaway block in Delhi these days, we know), but it was only the master who could be crucified in the end to make one's view points known to the public.

I'd also add one more point here. No happily living human being will think of surrendering to Osho or his peers ever, if they existed. Why would anybody do it? We never choose to discard the life we may live, when sailing through unharmed. Only when do we face any doubts, that we try to seek somebody like Osho. At the same time, some of us are born unnatural. They can be highly creative and destructive both, and would seek to meddle with Osho even on small pretexts. Osho was the dazzling master of all these hounding creatures. He was Mulla Nasruddin in the truest sense, who could lead the gang upfront and could still enthrall the world, both at the same time. The pitfalls were inevitable in the end, and so was the suffering of Calder and his ilks!

But, the latter brings in the much needed perspective to the whole saga, which was largely two dimensional until now. It's up to one, to decide how far to beleive him. Anthony's clinical answers can also influence some of the audience. I was of the view, this thread should stop now. But, no harm in finding it continue on. Let the Ekta Kapoor of world wide web carry on...the TRP ratings are about to shoot up!

Reply
    Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:Another Holistic Vision, Which May Soon Get Fragmented!
    Email:
    Date: Apr 17, 2008, 23:46
    Friends. As a researcher I have to trust what the subjects of my research tell me, unless their statements are contradicted by other eyewitnesses to the same event.
    Hypothetically anybody could be lying, including myself.
    I am well aware what Calder was an eyewitness to and what he was not, what he heard, from whom, what he read, where, what he had a personal experience with and wehat is just guesswork.And I choose to trust what he said he was an eyewittness to. The only time he could be an eyewitness to anything was from 1970 to 1974,after that he was just another sannyasin with thousands of other people. Most of the things he discusses happened after that.
    I read the first article he posted around 9 years ago, and it has changed enormously, basically because he recieved more and more stories which he just reproduced as they fitted with his antagonistic view.Actually the first article, althou full of misquotes, and huge misunderstandings was far more positive than the one you can read today.
    If youare interested in our discussions where we engage on each point you can read our debates at the beginning of this forum.
    regards
    anthony

    Reply
: Denial and Corruption in the Osho Movement
Date: Apr 18, 2008, 19:03
An interesting article about denial and corruption in the Osho movement:

http://www.a uthentic-spirit.net/denia l_and_corruption.pdf



Reply
: Denial and Corruption in the Osho Movement
Date: Apr 18, 2008, 19:03
An interesting article about denial and corruption in the Osho movement:

http://www.a uthentic-spirit.net/denia l_and_corruption.pdf



Reply
    Pankaj Mohan: RE:Denial and Corruption in the Osho Movement
    Date: Apr 19, 2008, 0:56
    Isn't it the same whining yet again? Should we begin to think that nothing creative will come out of the anti-Osho block anymore? One gradually begins to wonder now, who was trully shying away from the truth - the Osho movement or its detractors? At least, there is a significant number of Osho's well wishers (if not the Oshoites), who might not mind listening to what went wrong in the Osho movement. But, what about these story-tellers? Why should one believe in what they say now, if they spent so many years within the same "so-called hell"? Some of them kept visiting the communes until Osho's physical demise. It is hard to swallow, if they think now, all that Osho stood for was demonic. We have a well-admired 20th century entity completely denounced as a thug by these people, but we don't know what integrity these people do have with themselves.

    I have a friendly advise for Anthony. Do not answer to these brickbats anymore. Enough has been spoken from both the sides. However, you should try to know as a researcher in the future, what the key Osho Sanyasins/ Followers, including Mr Calder, may be doing in the commune in those days? Why did they hang around for so long when they had major reservations about the place and its people?

    Coming back to Ekta Kapoor...her serials may be a pain in the ass for many, but she still works hard on them and makes millions out of it. She might be telling plain lies, yet the same lies are styled enough that it makes millions across the Indian sub-continent watch them each day, unlike the anti-Osho vision, which keeps harping the same narration day in and day out.

    Reply
      : RE:Denial and Corruption in the Osho Movement
      Date: Apr 19, 2008, 9:06
      I really like your reply pankaj

      Reply
        Pankaj Mohan: RE:Denial and Corruption in the Osho Movement
        Date: Apr 19, 2008, 13:27
        I'd like to add something more into what I said. The anti-Osho vision should understand its true place. They are nothing else but the shadow of the great master. Many like me required watching his shadow as well, since the mainstream Osho movement seemed to be propagating only a two-dimensional metaphor for years. But you, the anti-Oshoism, should know you cann't afford not following Osho's footsteps, unless you began treading your own path!

        How large or shrunk the shadow comes out to be would depend on where the Osho movement stood with respect to the defining light - the absolute truth, which is nobody's territory; no mortal can think about touching it, surely not the crybaby anti-Oshoism...you must try to find your own truth, and not keep harping about the so-called faults in somebody else's.

        One small example should describe more clearly how most of us look at you, the anti-Oshoism. I can descend into deep silence at times, within a couple of minutes of having started listening to Osho's words. While you can keep posting the same "daddy didn't buy me the candy" kind of complains and be bombarded with the Ekta Kapoor comparisons time and again.

        Reply
          Anthony Thompson Phd.: RE:Denial and Corruption in the Osho Movement
          Date: Apr 19, 2008, 22:44
          Friends. I followed the link given to us before and... what a surpise! I found that the guy with whom I was discussing some time ago here whom i called Mr. bernstein, is no one less than Adreas Roth who authors the article. I am happy he has the guts to write his real name... If that is his real name. Now he will have to face the " persecussion from sannyasins" and the whole paranoid argument he gave for not disclosing the real name.
          No new arguments in the article, just a systematization of what he said in this forum...Not worthy of any consideration... again, the main points I already refutted... the rest, as always, guesswork and speculations.
          Regards
          a nthony

          Reply
            : RE:Denial and Corruption in the Osho Movement
            Date: Apr 21, 2008, 1:25
            I just checked out the (http://fillmash.com/) link you posted several months ago into this board, and must say you have hit the bull's eye in describing about Osho, specially in relation with wherever you needed to refute Calder's charges. Most Osho sympathizers will be highly shocked when reading at first about in the manner Calder often dose. And the people like me, who have never been to Osho's communes or mixed up with his Sanyasins, then start wondering may be some internal fights might have been the order of the day within the communes, so Calder is able to come out into open now.

            Therefore, Osho will not be harmed by such malicious attempts...his stature is beyond the clutches of Calder or anybody else. But honestly speaking, Osho's (devoted) followers do start getting seen with suspicion by the distant observers like me, due to such anti-Osho propaganda.

            Reply
              Pankaj Mohan: RE:Denial and Corruption in the Osho Movement
              Date: Apr 21, 2008, 1:27
              ..

              Reply
                Anthont Thompson Ph. D.: RE:Denial and Corruption in the Osho Movement
                Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
                Date: Apr 21, 2008, 1:57
                Friends. It is important for to state that It is absolutely ok with me if anyone disagrees with what osho said or did in his life. I think this is the undeniable prerrogative of being an inteligent person.And as i have said many times I am not a follower, neither I agree on everything.
                The purpose of my discussion is not to have philosophical discussion about osho´s way, but to clarify misunderstandings, misquotes and lies.
                The article i was mentioning before written by MR. Roth ( ex Bernstein),could have been written by anyone who has read the anti-osho literature available in the market. he was never exposed to most of the things he discusses, Roth was a average sannyasin and a member of a german commune who might have gone on a worker´s programme to the ranch.He was never close to Osho in any way.So if he was exposed to anything, of what he discusses, it was Sheela´s style and crimes... the rest is just speculation from his part... and as I said before I already discussed that.

                I also apriciate this debate... it is entertaining to me to have an informed discussion and mr. bernstain, as well as calder was very interesting and fun.
                Regards
                anthony


                Reply
: Denial and Corruption in the Osho Movement
Date: Apr 21, 2008, 14:22
Osho bashed religion, he bashed morality, he bashed thinking. It takes understanding and courage to bash hypocrite religion, hypocrite morality, pretence of insight and to live a real life, not ideas which are made of dead letters stored in the barn of memory. But history and individual experience prove that the result of rebuking all morals and indulging in cultic rituals (e.g. collectively screaming "Osho", thinking oneself to be choosen etc...) turns truth upside down and finally result in a desaster. The consequences are self-evident. Osho did say that one should not follow dead gurus. But, - against his own advice, his disciples keep following and pretending, instead of living acording to their own insight and understanding. Sheep following a dead shepherd. They go on denying and repressing the truth for a simple reasons: It hurts to see that they were fooled! It seems easier to create another hypocrite religion, instead of honestly telling the truth. This way corruption and lies are bound to repeat for ever. Osho, gifted with great talents, fooled himself and others by his own megalomanic ideas and his narcistic self-confidence. In the shadow of all this, many have become marionettes, driven by strange images and esoteric ideas which have no roots at all in reality. Oshos ideas have failed as many other ideas of the 20th century. Every attempt to hide this is absurd. It will just lead to destruction and collapse, individually as well als collectively. Past experiences with cults are best predictors of what will follow. The remaining Osho-followers are so ignorant that they are not even capable to understand simple facts of ethics. They are fooled by Oshos words, like sheep. A sad story, but not new at all.

Andreas M. Roth

Reply
    Anthony Thompson: RE:Denial and Corruption in the Osho Movement
    Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
    Date: Apr 21, 2008, 14:34
    Mr. Roth. I am happy for you that this debate brought you the courage to come out...still you need to post an email address to make this "coming out of the closet" a full one.
    As I said before, your views and understandings are your birth right as a human being and I will not discuss them. You are absolutely entitled to them and i respect them.
    I would like to correct, due to my late experiences, the idea of a cult or anything like that propagated from Pune. I was there and there is nothing like that. No Osho pictures, no sannyas giving, ,just meditation and the individual process. no cult, no dogma, no belifs, no following, not even guru, just meditation. All else has been dismanteled.
    Again, my concern are misconsepotions and lies, no opposite ideas or views.
    Regards
    anthony


    Reply
: Denial and Corruption in the Osho Movement
Date: Apr 21, 2008, 18:09
Mr. Thompson,

I just do not want to waste time fending off attacks by fanatics and people with deranged minds.

I am well informed about the things going on in Poona and in other places. As you know, the so called "inncer circle" does not exist any more and power is in the hands of a few who took it. The "inner circle" was one of the many "jokes" of Osho. No organisation can be managed by such an institution. It is inavoidable to crack up within a few years because of inner conflict. I will not go into detail, as there is enough information available on the internet. Some of the remaining fractions have their own policy, quarreling with Poona or with each other, may it be over trademark ownership or the interpretation of Osho or who possibly is having the right to give guidelines, ban people etc. To me that's all absurd. Poona was inspired by Osho and build by all the sannyasins who participated. There is no succesor and no ownership. Neither in a spiritual nor in a material sense. That is all nonsense. The reason for downplaying Oshos role in Poona is basically commercial and rooted exactly in all the things I criticise. Also, time has changed. You just can not attract people anymore with group toilets and pictures of Osho anywhere. But all parties concerned still downplay the events of massive abuse during the time when Osho was alive, in order to keep sales and returns going and to save their faces. It would be a brave thing to dissolve the whole organisation, but no one but Osho was able to do this, now it is too late. Many sannyasins just tell one side of the story, because they had to give up a life-long illusion if they would allow the whole picture, - it would hurt their spiritual egos. In such an environment corruption is bound to happen. The whole movement is completely odds within itself. Actually there is conflict all around, individually as well as generally. I am not interested in nice lies (like on osho.com) because it is an act of self destruction. It simply does not work. It never worked. It just produces hypocrites.

Andreas M. Roth

Reply
    Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:Denial and Corruption in the Osho Movement
    Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
    Date: Apr 21, 2008, 18:52
    MR. Roth. I am speaking about my own personal experience of what goes on in pune now. There is no fanatism. thousands of people go there for meditation and Osho remains a source of inspiration. There is nothing cultist about the place and the understanding of Osho´s vision. You may say it was done for finantial reasons... but friend, i know for sure there were more poepl e comming when it was Osho at the center, even after his death. The reason is epistemological not finantial.
    The place is woderful,peaceful, honest and vibrant. have you been there lately. If you have not, do not speak about what you do not know.
    I am sorry for your bitterness. But I have never insulted you and call you "fanatic and people with deranged minds".
    lets keep the status of the conversation as a friendly informed one. Stop insulting Ok?
    regards
    anthony



    Reply
Pankaj Mohan: There Needs A Differentiation Being Made....
Date: Apr 21, 2008, 18:47
One feels there needs a differentiation being made between the Osho-followers (who have been with the master or to his communes) and his sympathizers (who began admiring Osho's healing prowess by listening to his discourses). As a sympathizer, I'd agree with most negative remarks about the followers being made by the anti-Oshoites. I personally came across many of them and was sorely disappointed by their behavior. It seemed they had wasted their time with Osho, and were as clueless as anybody else, beyond their facade of "happiness".


However, the Osho-sympathizer is not to worried about these experiences. They became interested about Osho, since he was able to transform them in their "real" lives and not in any Utopian one. If Osho won their praise, it was because of his amazing prowess to heal their minds. He is more of a friend to most out there (the sympathizers) than any Guru one might try to make out of him. His discourses nowhere asked you to shout his names or make a cult out of him. His followers may do it now, but who cares! And this was the main reason why I (personally) got fascinated about him. It took me sometime to meditate.....even though he would ask you to do so in each of his discourses.....but once I began doing it, the initiator (Osho) was gone and I became my own guru.

In no way did he instigate me into being any anti-social or anarchic human. If at all, he helped me be more at peace with myself, and be more an integrated part of the society I live with. The whole anti-Osho outburst therefore, sounds tasteless beyond a certain degree.

It does show however, things were badly wrong within the communes in those days. The sympathizers would not waste their time in differentiating between the followers and detractors of Osho. Both can be highly disappointing and prove they were the differing sides of the same coin...the same experience!

Reply
    Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:There Needs A Differentiation Being Made....
    Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
    Date: Apr 22, 2008, 5:12
    Pankaj. My experience of osho´s disciples is that they are fanatics, inteligent, loving, careless, stupid, incredible smart, profound, superfitial, borderline,esoteric, agnostic deconstructivists,etc, etc. As you can find anyone anywhere. osho never said NO to anyone who wanted to become a sannyasin.
    The only caracteristic that I find in common is that they are who they are, they are themselves, without pretention to try to be someone else. They arereal... whatever that is for everyone. If they are stupid they are really stupid, if they are inteligent they are really... so reality is the main factor.
    Osho is osho, and every disciple is just himself.... and I think that was what the old man wanted... reality instead of caracter.
    regards
    anthony


    Reply
: Denial and Corruption in the Osho Movement
Date: Apr 22, 2008, 11:35
Hallo Anthony,

my comment about not wanting "to waste time fending off attacks by fanatics and people with deranged minds" was not a comment about you and not at all meant to insult you. It refered to your request to post my email address. Having found out about my legal name, you can be shure that I am not Calder and you also may trace me anyway with some intuition on the internet if you want.

You are right about the variety of sanyasins, but your interpretation again seems through rose-colored glasses and is typical sannyas jargon. Certainly sannyasins are not different from every one else on this planet, same genes, same history, same fears etc... but many sannyasins live out their egos because Osho gave all kind of excuses and rationalisations to justify his own trip. The extensive exposure of his disciples to psycho-groups additionally has added to the number of borderline cases. Sannyasins are not in any way more authentic or more themself then anybody else. This is a complete myth created by Osho ("the new man etc...). Certainly crazyness, esoteric hotchpotch and hypocrisy are not a monoply of sannyasins but there is a lot of it concentrated around Osho. Narcistic patterns, amplified by Osho. Nothing new. A very old phenonema created by religions and ideologies all over the world.

Osho accepted anyone because of numbers. His idea was to conquer the world. He gave great spiritual argument for not discriminating, but his real motives were different. What counted to him was his own image and his own vision and he used any means to propagate it. Osho just did not care much about the individual. There never was any responsibility taken for the consequences of his ideas, because it meant to spend resources. As in any totalitarian system, resources rather were spent and dedicatede for crazy ideas and for Oshos personal obsession. There was and is no reasonable control of power. There are many mentally disordered sannyasins. Many underwent psychiatric treatment. You may argue that it is your own risk if you want to climb mount everest or join a "freak show". But if there is a guide, claiming to know the way, it is his responsibility, at least to his best knowledge, to prevent people from destruction, otherwise he is just misguiding or on his own trip.

I have come to meet many people, all kinds of people. Religious people are the most arogant all over the world and Oshos disciples are in the top ranks with them. Science will not answer all the qustions of mankind. But at least scientist usually have a modesty in making assumptions and propagating them. That is why I take my time to discuss with you Anthony. But I also know this dispute will not change your views. Only time will.

Best regards

Andreas M. Roth

Reply
    Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:Denial and Corruption in the Osho Movement
    Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
    Date: Apr 22, 2008, 15:18
    Mr. Roth. I do not assume you will change your ideas with time. That to me just sounds like an arrogant statement. I said before I respect your views and conclusions. And I can tell the difference between thaem and facts.
    Osho never said to know the way. Actually he enfasized not only not knowing any way, but that he thought there was no way to follow.
    If you were around you must have heard this.
    All he said he did, was to create an experiment for people to learn abot themselves and have an adventure of self-discovery with him. He NEVER promissed to make any one enlightened. he insisted that it was not possible. he just created the environment for people´s growth, what anyone did with it was his or her problem. That was HE said he was doing.
    AS far as my knowledge of sannyasins. I stand by what i said before. I have found them to be more real, les phony or pretencious than other people associated in spiritual paths. I am a psychotherapist. This is my area of expertize, so i know what i am talking about.
    I think you are the narcissitic in this game. You assume your vision, understanding, and personal opinion to be the truth. I know my personal opinions are not near any truth. They are just my opinions.. and I do not expect anyone to " convert" to them " with time"... besides, there is no need, life is big and rich enough to have us both in this game. isn´t it?
    regards
    anthony

    Reply
Pankaj Mohan: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Apr 22, 2008, 17:57
I hope you are right Anthony, in describing about the Osho Sanyasins. I can't say either, I have been able to meet with too many of them, so my views can not be taken as an authority on this subject. However, whomever I met in the city I live, did not make any common sense ever. Nobody seemed capable of answering the questions I may have carried about Osho.

I can even show you an online forum, where several Oshoites (not all of them might be Saynasins though) are literally abusing each other these days. This scares off many, who might be trying to have a greater insight into Oshoism, once having read or listened to the gurus marvelous words.

Reply
    Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
    Date: Apr 22, 2008, 18:33
    pankaj. as you may well understand my intention is not to defend " the sannyasins", because what i want to say bassically is that there is not such thing. " The sannyasins" is a liguistic abstraction. There are individuals, who were disciples of osho, who developed and learned whatever they wanted to develop of learn. Therefore every single one is responsible for him/ herself. The way anyone is is the way he/she is.
    As I said before, I can not make a rule out of their behaviour in the same way that i can not make a rule out of the people living in my block. However, due to the neigborhood I live I can say most people are ecologically conscious. In the same way i can say that sannyasins seem to me more honest and real.
    But that is not a credit to Osho, that is a credait to evry individual growth.
    Osho was never willing to take responsability for enyone else.
    that is all
    regards
    Anthony


    Reply
      : RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
      Date: Apr 23, 2008, 4:38
      Pankaj Mohan,
      People on the forums aren't the real osho followers. Lot of them come to just criticize him, lot of them get interested by reading a couple of books and lot of them just like to compare him with other gurus in india. I know this because I have been in such forums and have been a victim of abuse myself. I am just suprised how this forum has gone untouched of personal abuse (although you do see some here also) I wonder if real osho people (by that I mean the ones that understand his teachings deeply) would even abuse or even care to be on such forums.
      DK

      Reply
        : Rolls royces
        Date: Apr 23, 2008, 5:16
        Just realized something,
        What Osho gave back to the humanity was invaluable. 93 rolls royces were a very small price. Why all the bitching
        DK

        Reply
          Pankaj Mohan: RE:Rolls royces
          Date: Apr 23, 2008, 8:57
          Lol...yeah, very true!

          I'd also agree that most of what has been spoken with respect to the Osho Sanyasins by me or others has been their personal opinions, and it is not a very credible way to make observations. It also speaks about the kind of expectation I had had with them, which in itself raises questions about me first before anything else.

          But then, somehow I did not find anybody worth speaking with when I visited one local Osho center in my city (though, quite long ago). The owner of the place would be seen more interested in selling out the counterfeits of Osho's audio discourses, and trying to make gay advancements towards others than trying to be any medium for Osho's message to keep on spreading. And he had been in the Osho fold for years, always visited Pune commune etc. Likewise I met several others, and all of them were too complicated, too stagnant...in contrast to what one might expect them to be...For example, I'm not a hardcore Osho follower, but I know Osho made me live simply and helped me shed many of my earlier burdens. However, I have yet to see a single Oshoite in my town or online who can be described as more sorted out in life than the layman on streets.

          But then...it speaks about the lack of application in their lives by the individuals I met with, and not anything about the master himself. What can any master do with such stone heads!

          Reply
            : RE:Rolls royces
            Date: Apr 23, 2008, 9:26
            Let me add one more thing.

            I have seen some very intelligent comments flying in once in a while during the online debates on Osho. The sources would then hurriedly go off-stage but only after providing an indication they were one of those serious Osho interpreters, who were in short supply during such debates. Which again says some countable opinions about Osho do prevail indeed, but they prefer not being dragged into on and off line skirmishes.

            Reply
            : RE:Rolls royces
            Date: Apr 23, 2008, 21:40
            Pankaj Mohan,
            I don't think there can be a hard core osho follower. That would be contradictory to osho's own teachings. He didn't want a hard core follower. As much as I admire his teachings, there are places where I disagree with him. Also, I think that his message was more of experiencing then beliving. So the hardcore follower, if just following what osho belived in is just insulting his own guru. What are your views on this?
            DK

            Reply
              : RE:Rolls royces
              Date: Apr 23, 2008, 21:41
              By the way, I like your blog.

              Reply
                : RE:Rolls royces
                Date: Apr 24, 2008, 0:20
                Thanks for visiting by my weblog. And you should know now, why I made use of that strong word (hardcore). Once you start being the focus of say, even a small audience, it begins to play on your mind. I can feel the significance of being read by a few visitors daily, which catapults me overboard sometimes.

                There is no denying, therefore, no true Oshoite would go down the hard line way ever (may be aggressive about one's ideas sometimes, but not extremist). In fact, most of these accusations that Osho propagated cultism etc are beyond one's appetite. I'd say, leave aside the talks of commune life and its events. Osho's stature is far greater than all that. And when we think of what he kept saying all through his discourses, these personal onslaughts begin to lose steam.

                But then again, we can see how people will go on abusing each other even while debating Osho, and they may not be called anything else but hardliners (whether they were true Oshoites or not is a different issue). So, I believe the accusations by the past Oshioites might have some circumstantial significance against the Sanyasins, who knows, (though Anthony would deny it, based on his research).....and may be partially against even Osho. By partially, I mean to say that may be Osho played Mulla Nasruddin in certain scenarios, which I find more interesting compared to the highly spruced up image...at least, I have no problems in living with any such shadowy ideas, at my own level....because I know, based on my own past experiences, Osho would lead me to be more integrated with life - if at all - and not towards any destruction, so I'm not bothered about his critics beyond a certain degree.

                I wouldn't go on beating this line anymore though. I have spoken enough and plenty of promotion for my blog has taken place by now.

                Reply
Anthony Thompson Ph.D.: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Email: athompsonphd@hotmail.com
Date: Apr 24, 2008, 1:56
I would like to add something personal to this debate. Something that has to do with my own understanding of Osho... even beyond facts and research.
I have studied this man and his work for over 22 years... and still he remains a mystery to me. I have read over 250 of his books and listened to countless tapes, and still I am Amazed.
I am a scholar and i have met brilliant minds in my life, but nothing, I mean nothing, compared to this man. I know he read a lot. But I have met a lot of people who read a lot and still Osho stands as a giant in front of my eyes.
As I have said before I am a psychotherapist and i have worked as such for many years and still my insights and understandings get repeated again and again. Reading the darshan diaries, the conversations between osho and friends and dicsiples, I have seen the most impressive couselor I have come across in my life. Each answer is a jewel, the ability to see people and to responde to their uniqueness is beyond knowledge and experience.
I had the pleasure to sit at his feet and the energy that emanated from this man is something that I have never seen in anyone, I mean not in anyone. I was with Krishnamurti, Papaji, nisgardatta maharaj and many, many others, and Osho stads alone in a place that is beyond projection, transference and stuff like that. he channelled an energy that was undescribable. Even detractors as calder and roth can not deny this.
What he was, what he said he was, and my extensive experience in human behaviour, psychology and scientific research falls short.
Beyond facts and stories there was this man as unearthy as anyone I have met, and at the same time so absolutely human. So present and so absent at the same time.
I think the main reason for all my years of research was to try to find out and understand what he was... But I just can not find an answer.
regards
Anthony


Reply
    Pankaj Mohan: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
    Date: Apr 24, 2008, 16:42
    That was a nice piece to read! It sums up the mood of a majority of Osho believers, including even those who could not meet him ever.

    Reply
: RE:Reporting From The Osho Resort
Date: Apr 24, 2008, 5:24
Bravo Anthony

Reply
: Facts about Osho
Date: Apr 25, 2008, 6:55
If you like to get a more realistic view on Osho by someone who talkes from experience, read Sams "Live of Osho" (about 260 pages), free on pdf.

http://www.lofo.c onnectfree.co.uk/info.htm l

Note: Delete the blanks from the link above, the system adds them automatically, when published.



Reply
Pankaj Mohan: Did Osho Try Behaving Like A White's Only Guru At Oregon?
Date: Apr 25, 2008, 20:57
First of all, it would be much appreciated, if the participants taking part in this debate revealed some kind of their web identity. That will help in developing a notion, they were serious about this whole issue.

As regards this book itself, the first few pages sounded very interesting, that is where I stopped due to a time crunch. It would be inappropriate to make any judgments, until I had a complete look at it.

I'd like to make a couple of general observations (or rather questions), though, based on my initial reactions.

Is there anything like White Westerns vs Indians also working behind this whole controversy saga? There can be no denying, it is always a major cultural shock for anybody visiting India for the very first time from West. I have spoken with several of them until now, who spent months living in my town, so I know it first hand. Many of the Indians will not defend their own lifestyle either. I deeply enjoy, as an Indian, whatever this country present to my whole self, but I also hate, at the same time, watching people taking out processions - drumming, shouting and bursting firecrackers - whenever they felt the need of doing it, performing Pujaas (prayers) in the middle of roads, expecting the whole world to bear with their nonsense if they felt they should celebrate....and I have not yet spoken about the 70% of India. This all just about the middle and very rich class. The 70% poor and sub-human India will require another several paragraphs.

But however hard I might hate it, there can be no alternative for the space India enjoys in my life. That is how I was raised up, and it sunk deep into each molecule formulating me. The same can be spoken about for the rest of my fellow countrymen and women as well. Even those who did migrate to the lavish west, can be seen dashing back to the same dusty and noisy India even at the slightest of any chance.

Arguably, one can speak the same about the White West as well. They might have fallen in love with Osho, but could never acclimatise with the eastern background he belonged to. The west had its own set of values, and the world can see it guarding them hard every day. I can clearly visualize this while reading the anti-Osho outbursts by Calder and his fellow observers. They keep harping about ethics, and this was to be their own, the western one. First of all, it's simply impossible to define the very best way of living and behaving in this world. All those trying to do so will make a fool out of themselves, after some effort.

The question that comes to mind here is, did the white Oshoite try to transform Osho into a Whites Only Phenomenon when deciding to move over to Oregon? Osho's Indian secretary at Oregon can be left aside in this case, since she was merely a pawn among many white Osho believers, who had obviously gone overboard, with or without the knowledge of their master.

Then again, was Osho also trying to behave like a White's Only Guru by accepting to or formulating the idea of Oregon? He must have failed miserably, since his eastern self was bound to contradict sooner or later. The ensuing contradiction did give rise to the cult like situation at Oregon in the form of Sheela osho, as the events unfolded in the commune later, and Osho perhaps also became a silent player (who had lost the whole plot). The move of accepting to travel to Oregon was foolish, one can say after such long time now. But that is how things took place, and we (Osho-believers) must accept to live with it - the Mullah Nasruddin kind of gimmick on Osho's part.

I'll read the rest of this book very soon (it provides a good first hand, second opinion, about the whole affair), though I suspect it might soon get heavily infested with rhetorics on ethics etc, and that will be the signal to stop reading it.

PS - Kindly take my