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Simon Tzu: If I ran the commune


devakrishna: RE:If I ran the commune
WWW: www.giollomarco.vze.com
Email: devakrshna@yahoo.com
Date: Mar 11, 2005, 10:46
Hi Simon,interesting we had different perceptions of the place (I think we where there about the same time), about the crazy juice of the place when Osho was there ... no doubts about! But if I compare i'm fucked. The first day I perceived the place a bit like you did, but when i went into the Osho Auditorium boy that changed! I realized there is where it's happening, the new comers are more into Dynamic, Kundalini, and the evening discourse than anything else, and outside was paked with maroon robes only during lunch and dinner, for the rest i agree, nobody around working and building the place like we once did and all that. But what touched me was that there are more people meditating now than when Osho was there. About the Indian workers I don't think that was a decision of someone to go that way. What I heard was that people did not wanted to work anymore, (it started with the dishes clean up), they where coming for shorter periods and the Place had simply to go with what was happening ( it still does), in the sense they had to start hiring Indian workers. BUT there is a working program where one can apply and have a room inside for 3 months and up.
I talked with the sannyas in charge of the workers rooms (we had the lockers next to each other) and he told me there are around 500 rooms around the entire compound.
I don't wanna defend the place, just sharing my bit .... love - devakrishna

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    Jivan Satyajit: RE:RE:If I ran the commune
    Email: jivan_satyajit@yahoo.co.in
    Date: May 14, 2005, 11:37
    This is for Devakrishna first re[ly of this article. Deva wrote twice "Indian workers". I don't get the meaning, what do you mean by "Indian workers"? Seems this Indian/non-Indian thing is quite deeply rooted in you, or it isn't? :D
    Love you!

    Reply
      devakrishna: RE:RE:RE:If I ran the commune
      WWW: www.giollomarco.vze.com
      Date: May 27, 2005, 15:09
      by indian workers I meant:
      "paid local workers"
      as opposed of:
      "osho-neo-sanny as who work for free"
      and I am terribly sorry you will not find a "paid local workers" who is not Indian

      nothing about indian/non indian thing
      I have been living in india half my life and I loooove the country and i loooove indians

      Hoping u understand
      Devakrishna

      Reply
        Jivan Satyajit: RE:RE:RE:RE:If I ran the commune
        Email: jivan_satyajit@yahoo.co.in
        Date: Oct 13, 2005, 11:32
        Hi Deva, Thanks for reply and sorry for the late responce.

        My meaning was not to challenge your love for India and Indians, just an spontaneous doubts surfaced that "paid worker" would be more appropriate to say.

        I enjoy visiting you site, thanks for that.

        Love you and love you all !!!!

        Reply
Michael: RE:If I ran the commune
Email: iamnotmike@hotmail.com
Date: Mar 15, 2005, 22:53

Fuck Your ......IF......!!!

DOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reply
: RE:If I ran the commune
Date: Apr 11, 2005, 15:16
Hi there,

I just returned from a 4 1/2 month stay in the OCI, and I can only say that I enjoyed it. It was my first real experience of Osho stuff, so I cannot compare it with the old days.

And I think there is the problem. I talked to a lot of old sannyasins, outside the OCI, and they said sort of the same as you do. They compare it.. and it is different now.

How I experienced it, was as a luxery holiday resort, with the opportunity to go deep into yourself, by meditations and by doing different kind of groups. It is a safe-haven in this world. A place to explore yourself in a way that can be more difficult in a different place. And for all that they ask money. And for Indian standards a lot of money, for Western standards little money. And for that money they pay local Indians to clean the dishes and work in the gardens, because I am not there to do that...

It might sound selfish, and different than the old days, but I pay to get some facilities, and I am happy with that.. It is not an ashram anymore, but a resort. Take it for what it is, and don't want to change everything (or look inwards and find out why you wrote what you wrote....;-)

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Nikki: RE:If I ran the commune
Email: Nikkyverma@yahoo.com
Date: Apr 16, 2005, 9:59
Hi! Simon, I totally agree with you. there is somthing missing here now. It does not have the same Vibes and energry as it used to be. I myslef am a follower of master since i was 16yr old and took sanays in 1996. Its way a diffrent exp than now. I wish things would have not changed the way it has and I am sure nither did the Master wanted this way. But I guess Change is life and it carrys on........... Love Nikki

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Nikki: RE:If I ran the commune
Email: Nikkyverma@yahoo.com
Date: Apr 16, 2005, 10:00
Hi! Simon, I totally agree with you. there is somthing missing here now. It does not have the same Vibes and energry as it used to be. I myslef am a follower of master since i was 16yr old and took sanays in 1996. Its way a diffrent exp than now. I wish things would have not changed the way it has and I am sure nither did the Master wanted this way. But I guess Change is life and it carrys on........... Love Nikki

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    Sw Amano Srijan: RE:RE:If I ran the commune
    Date: Apr 26, 2005, 18:29
    If i ran the commune.....the resort bullshit would have to go...good for money but where is the wild rebelliousness.....have we all become conservative orderly meditators..too afraid to express in a real spomtaneous way...in case ashram security goes shh...but still I love pune ....I cannot stop going even if the ashram is "dead" ....I am life itself and an ecstatic expression of that juice.....So can we find that life within us and let it shine out....is it really outside in the atmosphere....in blame..?is it in you every concious waking or wakeful moment.....have you had one of those lately....I bring pune with me wherever I go.....wherever I am birds start singing in joyful celebration.....because they know what love is.....love is not seperate....and to say so...is to forget why we are here.....we are all love.....the birds that sing when love's fragrance ruffles their feathers.....I say to go out of your mind and its prison like framework...and just for one moment feel how existence is pure love .......evrything living comes from that moment....and to waste this life mindphukking....why be so useless...but uselessness for the sanyassin has its own unique value.....dive into that....strive not to be useful in some way.....just be useless...and see how the mind fights for dominance of this moment....because it is that ...the nature of mind....to struggle and fight...with what is..trying to make something be which is not....the outer is reflecting your inner in whichever way you perceive it....though truth has no set of rules....and yes pune does feel loveless sitting here in london....but I wonder if it is the minds that perceive that are loveless and not the hearts that speak not ....of this moment.....which is always always pure....and always love...regardless of your arguments...struggle...an d fighting....the structure is there just to help your mind be destroyed...can't you see that...just another trick from the master...and if you are really free..and really concious...then just go to pune and be free...because freedom comes without any cost and it is just you standing in your own way....of course blaming others

    Reply
Simon Tzu: RE:If I ran the commune
WWW: www.simontzu.org
Email: simontzu@gmail.com
Date: May 9, 2005, 8:55
Beloved fellow sannyasins,

Thank you for your comments on the article! Yes OCI does still have something to offer. And I agree comparing it to the old days is not terribly useful.

The only sadness is that the changes mean taht none of my friends go there anymore. So instead of us all meeting up every couple of years because we are pulled to the same place I now have to travel around the world to see them.

"Dear Jayesh,

Fuck you for causing us all such incovenience.

love,
S imon"

Ah well...I have a feeling it won't be too long until something reemerges. Zorba the Buddha is alive and well and the get-togethers are going to happen.

love,
Simon (aka Pranshu)


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    Bsujata: RE:RE:If I ran the commune
    Email: bsujata108@yahoo.com
    Date: Oct 26, 2005, 6:10
    Hi Simon:

    I have been visiting Nepal's OSHO Tapoban in Nagarjun Hills. It is not like a resort, very simple, peaceful, and real. I don't know if you have been here but I recommend it. I like things natural so this place works for me. I am currently living in Nepal (I'm Nepalese raised abroad) visiting my parents. It's such a great blessing that you received sannyas in the womb by the very OSHO. I received sannyas just 4 days ago. It was an experience beyond words.

    Take care, y

    Reply
shunyo: RE:If I ran the commune
Email: shrimayank@hotmail.com
Date: May 25, 2005, 12:20
I think SImon thats a great Idea........
The truth shouldn't be sold like the way it's done these days. Commune and Resort are totally different thinks and we need to get the commune back. Do write me back...

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    shunyo: Where is the love??
    Email: shrimayank@hotmail.com
    Date: May 26, 2005, 6:42
    Deva wrote twice "Indian workers".

    WOW THAT says a lot for u Deva, u got an Indian Master and an Indian servent. THats taking u now where. What is the purpose of being here in commune, its making no difference. I remember talking to ppl in commune and they kept complaining about the current situation with respect to when OSHO was alive. Get a liive people, past is gone, how can u cling on to something and miss ur today completely. U want someone to work for u. OSHO's radiations made u feel great and not that he is not around the world is not a better place. then when will ur contribution for ur own life come into picture. The beaauty within you is missing. that s the reason u want to rely on stuff like surrounding. I agree surrounding make a difference but HOW much? can't u set ur priorities and move towards what he wanted to be?
    THE HERENOW is missing. the learning was waste, u wanted free bread but when the bread is gone u dont want to produce one but crib about the fact. I can feeel how painful it will be for bhagwan to know what going on..

    Reply
      Devakrishna: RE:Where is the love??
      WWW: www.giollomarco.vze.com
      Date: May 27, 2005, 15:21
      Deva wrote twice "Indian workers".


      by indian workers I meant:
      "paid local workers"
      as opposed of:
      "osho-neo-sanny as who work for free"
      and I am terribly sorry you will not find a "paid local workers" who is not Indian

      nothing about indian/non indian thing
      I have been living in india half my life and I loooove the country and i loooove indians

      For the rest i don't know what are you talking about in relation of my previous article
      as the brasilian says:
      LINEA CRUSADA!

      love
      Devakri shna


      Reply
        Shunyo: RE:RE:Where is the love??
        Email: shrimayank@hotmail.com
        Date: May 30, 2005, 10:56
        Nice to know about about ur past and present. With a clear picture I don't think I mind what u said. By the way the rest of message belonged to the massess. U know, the last time I came to Commune I was very disapppointed with people and thru the previous post everything got chanellized. I visited ur website and found it very interesting. The Gallery is done very well, must say...
        I am still looking for the meaning of LINEA CRUSADA. hehe. Hope my search ends soon.
        R u still in India?
        Do mail me if you update your Gallery: shrimayank@hotmail.com


        love,
        shunyo

        Reply
Shunyo: I am enjoying no way
Email: shrimayank@hotmail.com
Date: Jun 1, 2005, 14:23
Hi,
I know this post hardly deserves a play under this topic but I wanted to share my experience with some people I have known thru this post.
I 've been reading osho and other mystics since a long time and have also practices meditation to a point where the unusual has become usual to me. I thought I was moving in the right direction to know the ultimate thruth. But finally came across this article http://home.att.net/~medi tation/Osho.html by i dont know who, this has changed my belief into a mental disorder and all I think I have experienced till date seems like self hypnosis. I am standing in the middle of no where. Materialistic life on one side where I work with a leading Game development company and the spiritual life where I m to believe which is not present. I feel the need of a Guru. Someone true and real. Coz I ve been reading Osho, havent met him before . or the belief or he being the one can go low anytime, I call it easy to believe someone and easy to not believe. The information plays the part which is missing in my case. I need help before I take a decision which will take me in the wrong direction. Is he still alive in anyone of u, who cud be let me know what is written in the article is true or not?
HELP me

Reply
    : RE:I am enjoying no way
    Date: Jun 6, 2005, 16:14
    hi Shunyo
    i been sannyas since 1976
    i was physically around osho all along until his death


    don't worry about this article
    that's Christopher Calder's article

    he is not a sannyas,
    he was NEVER there,
    so he does not have a fucking clue about anything, he never meditated and he mixes real historical stuff with his distorted judjements and fantasies
    making a huge distorted soup and confusing people like you

    i don't even want to go trough this article
    ... wich is on line sinse ages ...
    point per point
    to tell you what is truth and wath is not.




    with Osho this is happening all the time since he started teaching up to the point they had to kill him with thallium and radiations when he was put on jail like they did with Jesus, Mansoor, Socrates, and many other

    Shunyo
    trust your feeling about Osho
    and keep going with your meditations
    that's all i can say to you


    with much love and respect
    devakrishna

    h ttp://www.otoons.com


    Reply
      shunyo: RE:RE:I am enjoying no way
      Email: shrimayank@hotmail.com
      Date: Jun 7, 2005, 6:02
      Thanx Deva,
      I was scared to know, that there was no one to comment to my post. U understand its scrary..Not for the ego but for the intimacy that I have lined up in the name of Rajneesh. I came to Pune last time and was refused an entry as I had no document which wud say I am what I am. but i understand the rules.. but the same thing which was mentioned in the article saying it is all money tht talks and just becoz i m an indian and the probability to possess big money is not that high, I was refused. U know mind creates it own story. Half of the world is in pit due to assuptions. Thanks for writing back. i wud love to see my queries answered by sanyasins as I am sure I will need a guru soon..The tiime has come.. The nothingness is talking about the known and unknown and their relevance.

      Luv,
      shuny o

      Reply
boo: Re: report from osho resort
Email: cynn_b@yahoo.com
Date: Jun 16, 2005, 8:37
i ain't a sannyasin, my connections with bhagwan are through his books, his voice and all the wonderful sannyasins that crossed my life when i was in india and santa fe.....for the longest time, i couldn't decide if i want to go to pune after hearing from many 'old timers' how the commune has transformed, how it was not what it used to be. however, reading the words of ma satya priya and the beautiful pictures posted by her and simon tzu, i was in tears. i see osho's energy and works very much alive in the commune.....i connect the place with osho and not with the people running it. i have never been as sure as now that, yes, no matter how much it has changed in the eyes of 'old' sannyasins, i will go to pune, for respect of osho and for myself. whether it was a commune 20+ yrs ago or now, i guess at the end of the day, everyone in pune is there for transformation and a deep yearn to be happy. sooooo, thank you once again for the words and pictures that spoke to my heart. i hope a sannyasin in 2005 will not be less of a sannyasin as 20 yrs ago......let's move on....with deep respect and love to all....



Reply
boo: RE:If I ran the commune
Email: cynn_b@yahoo.com
Date: Jun 16, 2005, 8:44
i hope i have not offended anybody with my previous message.....if any of you care to share with me about osho, about the commune, your experiences, about anything and everything, u are most welcome to write me at cynn_b@yahoo.com. thank you.

Reply
    shunyo: RE:RE:If I ran the commune
    Email: shrimayank@hotmail.com
    Date: Jun 20, 2005, 6:20
    Dear cynn_b,
    WOW! that was a beautiful reply, I mean I cud sense the innocense, the beauty behind the thought. I am glad to know u are coming to pune. n yeah I am sure u haven't offended anyone but made everyone understand how we were moving away from the basic moto. Thanks and Luv,
    shunyo

    Reply
    shunyo: RE:RE:If I ran the commune
    Email: shrimayank@hotmail.com
    Date: Jun 20, 2005, 6:20
    Dear cynn_b,
    WOW! that was a beautiful reply, I mean I cud sense the innocense, the beauty behind the thought. I am glad to know u are coming to pune. n yeah I am sure u haven't offended anyone but made everyone understand how we were moving away from the basic moto. Thanks and Luv,
    shunyo

    Reply
      boo: If I ran the commune
      Email: cynn_b@yahoo.com
      Date: Aug 19, 2005, 11:35
      hi shunyo...thank you for your support. would u be able to give me some recommendations for resonably priced, cozy guest houses in pune? will be leaving in october, which i know is the start of the crazy peak season. much appreciation..thank you...boo

      Reply
        shunyo: RE:If I ran the commune
        Email: shrimayank@hotmail.com
        Date: Sep 14, 2005, 18:51
        Hi,
        I remember meeting Sw Manarthan in Pune and I m sure I have his number in my cell which is out of service. I ll get you his number as soon as my cell is back to work. :)
        Luv,
        shunyo

        Reply
kavi: RE:If I ran the commune
Email: mrskavita@datainfosy
Date: Aug 7, 2005, 15:49
Dear madam/sir,
hello
There was a greatest man in the twentith century.Altough he was world famous man but not accepted by orthodox peoples of the world.His name was OSHO-BHAGWAN SHRI RAJNEESH.Even the greatest power whom we call Amrica was afraid of by this beautiful individual.He has treated by the unconscious world like a criminal,his health destroyed.For more than four years after he was poisoned and expelled from Ameria.
I am not a famous women just a simple house wife,and I do not want any name/fame/money from anybody, but I HAVE LOVED THIS GREATEST MAN so I want to give GREATEST THANKS to this man & THOSE WHO MADE THIS MAN.

WHY AMERICA & OTHER DEVELOPED COUNTRIES COULD NOT MAKE THIS KIND OF GREATEST MAN FOR THIS WORLD ??? ??? ???
THIS IS THE FREE GIFT TO THE WORLD FROM INDIA - THEY SHOULD THINK ON THIS POINT.
No need to give any strain to your undeveloped minds- I feel compassion for whole world.
I AM GIVING THE ANSWER through the help of OSHO's words :-
It is most difficult to persuade any woman to give love even to her own child.Because for centuries women have been bossed so much by men.So they have forgotten their real destiny of life.They are busy in useless works.Thus there is the crowd of fools, idiots & ugliest form of these terroristes .
-----------
There was a famous astrologer to whom OSHO's mother's father (grandfather) went to make birthchart of a new born baby(osho).
OSHO says"my grandfather wanted the greatest astrologer in India to make my birthchart.Although he was not even rich,what to say of very rich,but in that village he was the richest person-he was ready to pay any price for the birth chart.He made a long journey to Varanasi(INDIA) and saw the famous man.Looking at the notes and dates my grandfather brought, the greatest astrologer of them all said that-I am sorry , I can only make this birth chart after seven years.If the child survives then I will make his chart without any charge,but I don't think he will survive.If he does it will be a miracle. because then there is a possibility for him to become a buddha."
---------- --
Thus the astrologer said a complete lie to the grandfather just to save the healthy child.Because these first 7-8 years from birth are the fondation time for the whole life of a person.In this way we don't have personalities. Most of us- we all give birth to healthy children,but we do not love & care to a child in a proper way.OSHO was loved & got mercy because he was suppose to die any time even before seven years.He was kept at his (nana's) grandfather's home they had no other child too.And If he realy dies then it would had been a great pain to his mother.Thus he was saved.The astrologer may have done this experiment with many children and may have not succeeded.Now he was old, but he waited for seven years. After seven years he went to the OSHO's village.I was thinking - then this question came in my mind that why he himself went to the village ? He wanted to see the child just to confirm that - whether he has succeeded or not in saving the child ? Because who loves the child ? When the astrologer himself saw the child he satisfied that the child have been saved " IN COMPLETE HARMONY OF PERSONALITY HE HAS BEEN LOVED BY HIS GRANDFATHER & GRANDMOTHER." SO HE COULD BE ABLE TO GIVE HIS LOVE TO THE WORLD.
And everybody knows what that single person have done in the twentieth century.This is OSHO's greatest service for ever that he said about his golden childhood in the book "GLIMPESES OF A GOLDEN CHILDHOOD".
How could I come to know this truth --- just by the help of OSHO's another audio cassete series named ---" A SUDDEN CLASH OF A THUNDER".
Its better to listen these cassetes and read this book just to know that we are not properly brought up people of this world.But we should take the charge of the better future of this world by the helping women to take this greatest responsibility.BE RESPECTFUL TO ALL WOMEN, BE AFFECTIONATE TO YOUR DAUGHTERS, BE LOVING TO YOUR BELOVED WOMEN, BE RESPECTFUL TO YOUR MOTHER & GRANDMOTHER IN TRUE SENCE WITH NO CUNNINGNESSES THEN THIS IS POSSIBLE ."
Now read few lines from this series ;--
OSHO says - "I have heard about a man, who became very famous in Germany.Even today his statues are there, and some squares and some streets are still named after him.His name was Dr. Denial Gotliye Srabair. He was the real founder of Fassism. He died in 1861. But he created the situation for the Adolf Hitler to come.Of course unknowingly.
This man had very pranaunced views on -HOW TO BRING UP CHILDREN ? He wrote many books.Those books were translated in many languages.Some of them went in to fifty additions.His books were loved tremendously,respectedeed tremendously.
Because his views were not exceptional,his views were very common.He was saying the same things which everybody has belived down the centuries. He was the spoke's man for the ordinary minds, the mediocre minds.Hundreds of clubs and societies were set to perpetuate his thuoghts and his ideas.
He belived in disciplining children from the time when they were six months old. Because he said that -if You don't discipline a child when he is six months old -you will miss the real opportunity of disciplining him.
When a child is very tender and soft, unaware of ways of the world, make a deep imprint, then he will always follow that imprint,-and he will not even aware that he is being manupulated. He will think- he is doing all this on his own 'WILL'. Because when a child is six months old -he will have no ;WILL' yet. The 'WILL' will come later on, and the disciplilne will come first.So the 'WILL' will always think that -this is his own idea.
THIS IS CORROPTING A CHILD.( we all are brought up in this ugly way axcept the OSHO,Thats why we could not got this kind of wisdom. )
But all the religions of the world, and all the damogoges and all the dictatorial people of the world, and all so called gurujies, and all priests - they all have belived in doing this.
THIS IS A CHRONIC STATE - THIS PERPETUATES ITSELF.
This seems corropted at the very roots. But all the parents are call it discipline.He (that Dr.) belived in disciplining childrens from the time when they were six months old - in such a way,
that they would never question after thier parents.And yet belive that they were acting whole life of their own freedom.
On the first ray of appearence of the 'SELF WILL'- one has to stop it immediately - kill it immediatly.When you see the child is becoming a person - a individual - you have to destroy the first ray of his individuality immediately. Not a single moment should be lost.When the first ray of the 'SELF WILL' is noticed -one has to step forward threatening by gesture,repeling against the bed,bodily admonishment constantly repeated untill the child comes down or falls asleep. This treatment was needed once or twice, or at the most thrice.
That German doctor told to people - make the child so afraid, sake him to his very roots. And those roots are very soft very tender yet.A SIX MONTHS OLD CHILD. Threaten him with gesture deep haterate enemity in your eyes - as if you are going to destroy the child himself. Make it clear to the child that either he can live or his 'SELF WILL' . But both cannot be allowed to live. If he wants his 'SELF WILL' then he will have to die.
Once child comes to know that he can live at the cost of the 'SELF WILL' then he will drop his 'SELF WILL', and he will choose the servivel - Thats natural. One has to choose servivel first everything else comes secondary.And then one is master of a child for ever.Thus parents are masters of the children."
WE SHOULD THINK ON THIS MOST UGLY SITUATION - WHICH IS MAKING FOOLS, IDIOTS & THESE TERRORISTS.

I Dr. kavita lakh singh rathore request the whole world's capable persons to stop this nonsence from right now. Let the wonderful personalities come to this earth just to make this world heaven.
RIGHT NOW THIS IS HELL .






Reply
    : RE:RE:If I ran the commune
    Date: Aug 8, 2005, 13:36
    Hi,
    That was a great piece of knowledge that you shared with us Kavita. I remember, when he was alive the kind of hatred he got from India itself. People who used to talk about Osho were considered as pegions trapped by Osho. My Grandpa is a poet and once he mailed his book to OSho. In reply Osho mentioned that he wanted to meet my Grandpa as he was a great fan of poems. My Grandpa was planing to move to Pune to meet him but he got the News about Osho's death. He just missed it. I still remember the respect my Grand had for him. What a beatiful person.. I knew he had this pull...

    Reply
    : RE:RE:If I ran the commune
    Date: Oct 13, 2005, 11:52
    Hi Kavita,

    Your question:
    "WHY AMERICA & OTHER DEVELOPED COUNTRIES COULD NOT MAKE THIS KIND OF GREATEST MAN FOR THIS WORLD?"

    My answer:
    "YOU NEED BLACK BOARD TO WRITE WHITE!"

    Just for fun :D

    Don't be so silly ....... and enjoy !!!

    PS: I am an Indian too :D

    Reply
seed in soil.....: RE:If I ran the commune
Date: Sep 9, 2005, 13:52
hi all.....

this is a wonderful article. the idea that the commune is there....hence one does not need to begin from the scratch sounds practical tho....but wat if v all, .... n many more fellow-travellers join hands n bring up something from the scratch? osho is merged in the entire existence.......but wat lacks is His commune.....commune...not a resort!!!!
it will cost a lot of money to each one of us, but .... but it will provide us an opportunity to LIVE the concept of a COMMUNE under democracy.
after having read all that's been posted on this page here, i come to understand that each one of u is a long time disciple of the Master, while i am just a sprout.....yet germinating but wish a commune, COMMUNE OF HIS TIMES cud come up once again......!!!!
my views, as each one of yors, are simply my perceptions, based on my understanding, but wished to share it....even if the thought floats in the ether, with intensity, i see the transformation of thought into reality an UNDOUBTED SUCCESS!!!

Reply
Stephan Lewin: RE:If I ran the commune
Email: green_dreads@hotmail.com
Date: Sep 12, 2005, 15:47

Well, I remember reading a quote by Osho, where he worried that people would form a logical, structured organization around his teachings, and if any of the above proposed ideas come into acton then it will have happened.


Reply
    seed in soil...: RE:RE:If I ran the commune
    Date: Sep 13, 2005, 12:57
    not being defensive but well.....does this mean that a commune is a structured organization???

    Reply
      shunyo: RE:RE:RE:If I ran the commune
      Email: shrimayank@hotmail.com
      Date: Sep 14, 2005, 18:49
      I would say, seed in soil has got a point and organisation wont be the right word to describe comune, I would see it as a place full of love (which will be contributed by each of us). Meditate, smile, take care of each other.. Like a lovely family.

      Reply
        spiritualterrorist: The Incognito Sanyasi Mafia
        WWW: incognitos dont have URLs
        Email: spiritualterrorist@hotmail.com
        Date: Oct 3, 2005, 17:30
        Hi,

        WE DARE ALL THE WILD FLOWERS, IN JUNGLE OF OSHO, WITH AN OPEN INVITATION, TO STOP WASTING THEIR VALUABLE ENERGIES IN PLAYING CRITICS OR APPRECIATORS OR ADVISORS OR COMMENTATORS OR SPECTATORS, AND IF INTERESTED, TO JOIN IN WITH US, TO PRACTICALLY WORK OUT AND LIVE OSHO’S VISION.

        We are not officially �certified� Osho Sanyasis by any of the vigilante �so-called� �self-styled� �official� torch-bearers, care-takers and god-fathers of Osho’s vision, like Commune turned Resorts, World Foundations or some Abc….Xyz…..Dharas …etc.
        V R OSHO LOVERS.

        Osho is our de facto guru and we are Osho sanyasins inognito (unofficial, uncertified). We are all in the age group of 30 – 35, so-called highly educated from the so-called prestigious institutions and are products of so-called high society families (according to prevalent so-called social norms). We never met Osho in his body during His last visit to planet Earth.

        After looking at the state of the older bunch of sanyasis who have actually �sailed the ocean� with OshO (when He was in His body), in the SAME BOAT, we feel that history repeats itself.
        As every Enlightened Master like Christ, Krishna, Moses, Mahavir, Mohammad, when in body, and after them, their visions too got surrounded by MAFIA of disciples, OshO too was, and now His vision too is surrounded by the same.
        …..So nice to experience the circle of Yin-Yan and history repeating itself, because we feel only such self-styled vigilante MAFIA groups like the Commune turned Resorts, World Foundations, Abc……Xyz…Dharas…. etc are the only people who will keep Osho’s vision alive.
        Now the cost to be paid for this is that one has to see Osho’s vision thru their glasses, which naturally by default, being human, gets tinted by egoistic perspectives and monode-like point of views.
        We express our gratitude towards them and look at their love (even if it is egoistically tinted and monode-like, which is so human) with great AWE…..
        The bargain is still cheap…..because only these priceless vigilante MAFIA groups of sanyasis are the active players in the Osho Energy field, and rest all are just…..Visitors… Spectators….By-standers …. Coaches…. Umpires…. Expert Commentators….Expert Consultants….Expert Advisors…..and the most important……. Critics.
        Finally…. Last but not the least,the so-called enlighteded sanyasis of whom there is no dirth and r available at every nook and corner and r ever-ready to �PLAY� Osho by boisterous marketing of their self-acknoledged so-called good-fortune of being direct disciples, their personal experience of OshO embodied, by using all the modern online and offline audio-visual and print medias….are just…so-called….. watchers on the hills….. good for nothing by default……. professing to follow OshO word-by-word by the book (like after the so-called self-proclaimed enlightenment, some Swami’s and some Ma’s from some vigilante MAFIA groups like some Dhara’s have now started addressing themselves as OshO �Abc� swamis….and OshO �Xyz� ma’s…etc, thus if not Xerox copies of Osho, they are atleast proving out to be a pirated, substandard, 4th grade versions of Mulla Nasruddin….ha ha ha ha ha…..atleast contributing to the laughter pool……though substandard).

        We have been browsing through your website since long and have come to this view that for the older lot of sanyasis who have experienced Osho embodied, the clock has stopped ticking and their views about Osho’s visions seem to be stuck with Osho’s last visit to this planet and the times of his death. We think their clocks need some mending and fortunately, we the MAFIA group of Incognito Sanyasis, are GENETIC CLOCKSMITHS. So if the older lot wants…..our services are for free….!!!!
        One thing which we, the Post Osho’s Death (POD) era sanyasins and Incognito ones too, can learn from the older lot if they are generous enuff to enrich us, is the Alchemy which they seem to have juxtaposed for - STEPPING TWICE IN THE SAME RIVER……!!
        Some from the older lot of sanyasins r busy in blowing out their balls in trying to get themselves enlightened.....if at all there is anything like that... and few from the same older lot of sanyasins have created some Abc….. Xyz…… Dharas….. thru which they claim to fulfill Osho’s vision of 10,000 Buddhas by PRODUCING CONVEYER BELT BUDDHAS......, LITERALLY WITH PRINTED CERTIFICATES OF GUININE ENLIGHTENMENT….. just like factory manufactured buckets and tumblers that are certified to guarantee their genuineness with ISO certifications….ha ha ha ha…..what a bag of wind….pppfffffffffff… ……..!!!!!

        As far as we, the Post Osho Death (POD) era are concerned, we are in absolute wilderness. We don’t have any frozen image of Osho or His vision. He is literally a very �misty� figure for us and it is difficult for us to imagine whether he was ever embodied or even visited this planet.
        So we, the POD sanyasins, are like wild flowers, in the jungle called Osho and not like flowers blooming in various systematically cultivated gardens (Commune turned Resorts, World Foundations, Abc…..Xyz…..Dharas… …etc) managed by the older lot of sanyasins. The POD sanyasins absolutely don’t carry any hangover from the Osho Embodiment Era (OEE).
        BECAUSE WE HAVE NEVER EXPERIENCED OSHO’S EMBODIMENT, SO IN A WAY, RATHER THAN BEING TUNED WITH OSHO’S EMBODIMENT, WE ARE ABSOLUTELY TUNED WITH HIS VISION.

        Now let us come to the practical aspect of Osho’s vision.
        As far as we, the POD sanyasins are concerned, our concern is with practical problems in living out Osho’s vision.
        Our concern at the present moment is not.... the methods or meditation techniques or even the so-called enlightenment…whateverâ €¦..!! Our concern is with practically living according to Osho’s vision, which will create a conducive atmosphere for meditation as well as so-called enlightenment…..whateve r..!!
        Now one may argue that if we first meditate, and get our centers so-called enlightened, only then the lifestyle which is at our circumference will follow our centers. But presently, in order to meditate, we will have to first agitate….and presently we are at the circumference…we know NOTHING about our so-called centers.
        SO LET US BEGIN FROM WHERE WE ARE…..and not where we intend to be.
        The height of our situation is……. We don’t want to believe in Osho’s �EMBODIMENT�….., We just love His �VISION�.

        SO TO HELL WITH OSHO………
        AND �HAIL HIS VISION�..........!!!!

        The practical problem with us in living a life of �HERE AND NOW� is for example - girl-friend - boy-friend game is very costly (and this is not the only facet, although this is the core of humanity). If one has ten thousand rupees in one’s pocket, and in the state of mind of �HERE AND NOW�, if one spends it all right now on one’s cutie, now, because we live in a world of possessions and there is competition for cuties, where naturally cuties go for BBDs (Bigger and Better Deals)……well, man is part of animal kingdom where each sex goes for the fittest amongst the opposite, then at this moment, one will be left broke, and because rest of the world believes in anything else but here and now, goes on amassing immense wealth arising out of past painful hangovers or future desires, so at this moment, the sanyasi who lives a lifestyle of here and now, becomes a �small fish� and well……. we are all well-versed with the rules of the food chain!!
        That means, according to present economic fashions and systems being followed on this planet, to live in �HERE AND NOW�, each sanyasin will have to be a millionaire then only he won’t become the smaller fish in the food chain.
        But the problem is, if one undergoes the process of becoming a millionaire, because of the inbuilt default mechanism in today’s economic system, one metamorphizes into a FEAR STRIKEN DISBELIEVER of �HERE AND NOW� and rather will become a part of the club which oscillates only in past and future and instead of taking the joy of spending the available ten thousand rupees now on the cutie, one will prefer to amass it thus losing the �HERE AND NOW� and the �SPONTANEITY�.
        Irony is, if one has the will to live �HERE AND NOW�, one lacks money according to present economic standards and system, and if one generates that kind of money, one is left with a fearful will, very reluctant.

        Chane hain to daant nahin….daant hain to chane nahin….
        If one has nuts, one doesn’t have the teeth, n if one has the teeth, one doesn’t have the nuts….
        (Proverb used amongst peasants in India).

        The ONLY PRACTICAL SOLUTION OF LIVING IN �HERE AND NOW� IS COMMUNE-LIKE CULTURE, wherein, we pool in all our energies, emotions, funds, and wherein we don’t just have a collective economy but a collective humanity, where no one BELONGS TO no one, all for one and one for all, wherein no human being possesses and depends on another human being emotionally, financially or physically.
        One may raise a problem that in a commune-like atomosphere, how can one spend all the ten thousand rupees on the cutie one wishes to court….so well, in a commune like atmosphere, we can have a natural flow of energy wherein nothing like �MY� cutie comes up, so no cut-throat competition for cuties, first of all….
        …..And secondly, all the emotional as well as financial pains/pleasures, joys/sorrows, problems/solutions also will be collective and it could be like, if I stand on a cane chair with one leg, it may tend to break, while if I stand on the same chair with both legs, weight dispersion could be such that it may not break.

        And last but not the least, DISCOURSES of Osho are readily available to us as "POCKET BOOKS" thru which every sanyasin can practise the discretion between:
        Suppression (Partantrata)……..
        Fr eedom (Swatantrata)………
        L icentiousness (Swacchandata)……..


        One problem that may arise out of this could be that some lazy assholes may take advantage of the collective economy and SYMBIOTIC tradition, and may just turn out to be a PARASITE for the commune.
        Well, with every experiment we will face new problems, and with every solution we may commit a new mistake and can again come out with a new solution with lesser errors. We live......we learn.....
        If I am an advocate of present economic system and am living in commune-like culture, I may term myself as bankrupt because whatever I’ll earn, will get dispersed in the collective economy of the commune and if I am an advocate of commune’s economic system, and am living in commune, I may term myself as a millionaire because I am part of the whole economic system of the commune, I am the whole.

        Type of communes we propose are – instead of having communes spread across mountains and jungles far away from humanity in modern cities, why not have small-small oasis-like communes in deserts of modern cities.
        For e.g., in every modern city today, apartment complexes are coming up everywhere because of its cost-effectiveness. Such complexes are almost like a small village in the midst of a city because every apartment complex in any modern city, has anything between 50-200 flats, in which almost 250 to 1000 people reside. Besides, these complexes are equipped with facilities like a full electric backup, big playgrounds for small kids, playing courts for various field sports, gardens, a club house, a swimming pool, a cultural club, a small super market, a transport service, good security arrangement, a community play school for the kindergartens of that complex and above all, the CENTER POINT of the whole experiment is that we can get 3 – 4 spacious underground halls for meditation and therapy groups and sharing sessions, designed and custom-made for our purpose, before hand by the respective construction company. Instead of running one kitchen in each house (which tends to become boring and expensive), we can have a collective kitchen, which is cost-effective. Collective cooking and sharing of food allows greater interaction, thus cultivating a community feeling, symbiotic culture and organic energy.
        We can have a collective ownership of the apartment complex, and no individual sanyasin, no matter how rich, would be the �OWNER� of any single flat in the complex. For e.g., Sw. �abc�…..will not �OWN� any flat no.9, if there are no.1 to no.200 flats in that apartment complex, and he will be the collective owner of all 200 flats in that apartment complex. Thus we will avoid the �DISEASE� of family inheritance which has led to evils in present form of economic system and social traditions.

        Well, can we not be as optimistic as Osho’s Rajneeshpuram…….once again…….!!!!!

        A costlier option of the above experiment could be ……
        The other day, we came across some ads from Sahara Group of Industries (Chairman: Subroto Roy) on the internet about their construction projects. They are coming up with full-fledged satellite micro-cities at a distance of 25 – 30 kms from every big city in India. The area covered by these satellite micro-cities is approx. 2000 to 5000 acres. As far as amenities are concerned, these satellite micro-cities are no less than any modern city. They have everything ranging from recreation, health care centers, sports, transportation, small scale industries, cottage industries, business centers, call centers, commercial complexes, shopping complexes, kindergartens, middle schools, high schools and colleges affiliated to boards and universities, fully equipped hospitals with CT Scans and MRIs, and above all they are even willing to provide a helipad if any of the satellite micro-city wishes to have a helicopter transport system, with the best of security arrangements and electricity backups. These cities will also have their own organic farming systems and ABOVE ALL……open spaces and huge halls, for meditations, therapy groups, sharing sessions….etc. Well, you just name it, and you can have it there….sky is the limit!!!! Each of these cities will be a home to anywhere between 10,000 – 50,000 people.

        Now comes the last part…..
        BANG…… BANG…….. BANG…….!!!!!!!

        FUN DS…….FUNDS……….F UNDS……..!!!!!!

        WAKE UP SANYASINS…..!!!
        THE UTOPIA IS OVER…….
        By funds we mean, really BIG funds, HUGE funds, BIG MONEY…because all small experiements of commune tried until now have failed because of cash crunch and limited financial resources of sanyasis involved in any such experiment, because affluence brings expansion and space in psyche and liquidity in ego, so psychological turmoils and ego clashes become milder, dilute, softer and so-called cultured and reach some higher plane or dimension than those that have prevailed till today. Well, we don’t claim that money is the key to every lock and that it solves all emotional, physical and relationship problems. But, choice here is not between good and bad, but between bad and worst. And definitely......
        AFFLUENCE BRINGS BARRIERLESS SPONTANEITY......... in whatever it may be..... either in positivity or negativity.

        Our mafia group of incognito sanyasis, have the will and zeal to have a commune of Osho’s vision and we also have the will and the zeal and WAYS……. AND MEANS…… AND THE KNOWHOW…… AND LOGISTICS…… to generate ENORMOUS funds required for the experiment.

        Now here comes the......
        BANG…….BAN G……..issue……..
        O ur methods of generating funds r ........
        ...........DIAL ECTICAL.........
        encompa ssing both so-called good and so-called bad MEANS,
        and not just……. ECLECTICAL.........,
        emphasizing only on either so-called good or only on so-called bad MEANS….....
        because all our goods and bads are socially defined phenomenons and keep on twisting and turning and changing from society to society, country to country, religion to religion, sect to sect, culture to culture, continent to continent and human to human. Humanity may be wrong in what humanity has defined until now as �good means�. And the same goes for �bad means�.

        Mind is choosy, schizophrenic, not the Existence. In this Existence, as there cannot be an ideal physical motion without friction, similarly, there can be no ABSOLUTE BLACK and no ABSOLUTE WHITE.
        In Existence, there are no ABSOLUTES, only RELATIVES.

        The mainframe computer of Existence only supports the operating system of GREY……..

        ONCE AGAIN, WE DARE ALL THE WILD FLOWERS, IN JUNGLE OF OSHO, WITH AN OPEN INVITATION, TO STOP WASTING THEIR VALUABLE ENERGIES IN PLAYING CRITICS OR APPRECIATORS OR ADVISORS OR COMMENTATORS OR SPECTATORS, AND IF INTERESTED, TO JOIN IN WITH US, TO PRACTICALLY WORK OUT AND LIVE OSHO’S VISION.

        If you r interested and have the balls and your balls have the will, then DARE to contact us at: spiritualterrorist@hotmai l.com

        WE DARE…………..don’t dare to call us a bunch of crazy fuckers…...who knows……..

        Reply
          Thinker: RE:The Incognito Sanyasi Mafia
          Email: Iam2Scared2@disclose.that
          Date: Oct 16, 2005, 17:14
          Hey Mister,
          I totally agree with the first part of your document. where you have mentioned some true and stale observation about the Sw.Ma. fundamental. It's killing me since day 1. It sounds like a military designation to me which is provided with an exchange of weapon. Sahara thing was quite impressive too. At times I thought U were one of the Sahara people trying to sell something. But keeping everything apart U have a point to talk about. But still I feel that if one needs outer space to know himself then he is not ready. I personally feel that way. Sharing my experience..reading Osho gave me a reason to clean the dirty but I had to do it myself. I cannot borrow someone from outside to clean my own dirt. The difference in Inside and Outside. But dependency on people and place to know yourself sounds stupid to me. You can get and know what you want without all these. You just have to ruminate on it. Thats what I feel may be you have a different vission.

          Reply
          anders: RE:The Incognito Sanyasi Mafia
          Email: a.windisch@libero.it
          Date: Dec 26, 2005, 11:24

          Well, yes instead than mourning and remembering, start working here and now without having to go out to nice and wild resorts, away from the everyday world... feels like sound advice. Moving to an ashram is similar to choosing a monastery, only the type of worship differs. Going to a resort in just a holiday. What makes the difference is bringing the vision inside one's one life and plan a different way to live it without having to 'change game'. And create a living experiment and testimony for everyone to see.
          Yes on something of this kind even someone allergic to gurus and ashrams, but not to good teachings, might join in. About the good or bad means a little doubt. The means is the energy potential and capital on which the communities are founded: there better be no tricks and 'ends justify the means' stuff. If the energy is right, the money follows; if not it's better to clear it up instead than looking for poisoning shortcuts.
          Best of luck with you project!

          Reply
Prem: RE:If I ran the commune
Date: Oct 29, 2005, 9:02
Tell you the truth, It is not easy to run this place(when you say If I ran the commune)..there are many problems around, and when you will be in power, I bet you will go on same Power trip, like the others are going... I have seen the people who said this things and when get the power, all is diffrent . I know one thing is that this place is still working on people, and master's energy is still there, if you want to find it.it is there.and one thing is very constant in life is Change... And yes it is diffrent than before.....And I agree with you THE HEART IS MISSING THERE..but before was master's heart runing the place not the Power tripers..

Reply
rashpalsunner@hotmail.com: RE:If I ran the commune
Date: Nov 20, 2005, 20:35
leave it as it is. those people are top white people and they know what they are doing. do not intefere

Reply
Rashpal Sunner: RE:If I ran the commune
Email: rashpalsunner@hotmail.com
Date: Nov 21, 2005, 15:26
I have changed my point of view since my last message. In that message I felt things are managed well by the white leadership of the Pune resort and should be left as they are.

However, looking more closely at the other forum contributions to this debate has led me to reflect on the wishes of the white sannyasins from the West.Since they make up the vast majority of the sannyasins in the world there wishes should be understood and if possible acted upon.Firstly, what are there wishes?

They wish for the work to be done by sannyasins. However, despite appeals and facilities being available for sannyasins to take on a "work as meditation" opportunity for a few months there are no takers. So clearly this is not what sannyasins want. Also they are not willing to work for the small amounts of money that Indians will work for. Clearly, this is not what they want.

Do they want Indians NOT be around? Yes. Do they want white people to do the work, Yes. This would create that much needed white ambiance that was available when Osho was around. He liked that white ambiance too and encouraged it. He was hostile towards Indians. See the book" Zen, Zip, Zap, Zing" for his views on misbehaving Indians in the commune of that time in India shortly before he left for America. See also the book "Dying for Enlightenment," written by his cook where she talks about the time when Osho approved of a beating misbehaving Indians had recieved in the commune. Now this hostility is not evident to such a degree in the modern white sannyasin now that Osho is no longer here. No, it is more subtle than that. I feel it just a desire to be separate from Indians with no malice or hatred towards them at all. This desire for seperation is not wrong. It is about sensibilties and that level of refinement craves a certain ambiance, namely a white ambiance. This is hardly a bad thing. It is more a case of aethetics than anything else. A white sannyasin from the West would rather he or she was served drinks by some white lady with a blond ponytail than a poverty stricken short black person who can not speak english properly. The solution to this problem then lies in Eastern Europe. The people there are white. They are willing to work in India. Indian computer corporations who have started call centres hire young Eastern European people who can speak Slavic languages well. These people take a year off work before going on to University. In return they get to see India and earn enough money to make it worth their while. The Indian Corporations doing this have the knowledge to set up the operation but not the language skills to operate them for the Eastern European market and so they import these language skilled employees with the blessing of the government. Now what is to stop the Pune resort from getting on this Corporate bandwagon which is pursued by some of the top Corporations in India? Nothing. All that is required is for the Resort to ask the Corporations doing the work to employ people with Slavic language skills as their clientele is changing. In the contracts that are being sent out to prospective bidders this should be specified. This avoids the problem of being accused of being racist as it is clearly below the multi-cultural rader of modern government. Your problems are solved. You then will have a white leadership, white sannyasins, and white workers from Eastern Europe. The only problem I can forsee is that some Eastern European people are Muslims (for example some of the people of Bulgaria). These should be avoided as their loyality is with Arabs and so they may take the opportunity to blow up some western tourists as well as get to heaven by becoming suicide bombers. However, this is easily dealt with by screening applicants thoroughly by the contractors, and short of this kind of thing happening, everthing should work out well. The rest is up to you. Talk to the Pune Resort leadership and get this change in the racial makeup of the Resort happening.

Reply
Deva Ojas: RE:If I ran the commune
Email: ronald_kamst@yahoo.fr
Date: Nov 24, 2005, 14:35
If I ran the commune, but I don't...

Reply
How can I post a new toppic?: How can I post a new toppic
Email: atmokamya@hotmail.com
Date: Dec 22, 2005, 13:34
So this is far the best and newest webside i found for this. I am a looking for a kind of "vivid´" forum or blog run by young sanyassins. I am sanyassin since i was 17, now i am 30. I am german, but live in Spain. Here dont live many other sannyassins so i just want to talk sometimes to other people that are more spiritual related than my "normal" friends here, although i am not one of the very holy sannyassins, i look at some things just in a different way than other people. so if someone reads this email me or write here where i could look. all the sides i found so far are to holy for me or have a lot of advertisement - all kinds of healings and groups and news. and what goea on in pune. For me not interesting because i will never go there again. i think osho now is everywhere and it would help (me) if there would be a place for us to connect.

Reply
atmokamya: Sorry: topic!
Email: atmokamya@hotmail.com
Date: Dec 22, 2005, 13:44
Yea, I know: better topic

Reply
    Nishkam: RE:Sorry: topic!
    Date: Dec 22, 2005, 15:16
    Hi Atmokamya!
    How about openning your own thread for sharing here? Just write the story you would like to share with others, add some juicy pictures and drop it to info (at) rebelliousspirit.com.
    We 'll puliblish it as an article here and you'll get your own small forum. :)
    Otherwise, 'vivid' forum and blogs are in our plans, but there are some other more important tasks on the table.
    Take care and thanks! Nishkam


    Reply
arunav: RE:If I ran the commune
WWW: osho
Email: varunv19@gmail.com
Date: Oct 6, 2007, 22:36
i am enjoing lot there................

Reply
LenSoMy: mindfukkk
Email: lifeisgoodsmile@yahoo.com
Date: Dec 30, 2007, 17:19
who gives a fuck
mind is who
drop this mind
and the who is fucked
that which you is looking for
can never be found
only uncovered
to what is already hear
kill this who
kill this you
kill this osho
hear is
only one
with its many names
namaste'

Reply
Sw Amano Srijan: RE:If I ran the commune
Date: Jan 3, 2008, 20:21
fuck the stinking non commune bullshit resort......bollocks to hypocrisy...fuck the reptiles...as in send them back to hell..powertripping jayesh and dyanesh...fucking wankers with no guts

Reply
Carolyn: RE:If I ran the commune
Email: behapppynow@yahool.com
Date: Apr 29, 2009, 8:19
Hi Simon- thanks for writing your articles- I just finished reading the book Autobiorgrahpy of a Spiritually Incorrect Mystic- It really got me thinking- was wondering about where things were at now. It must have been amazing you growing up from the start with Osho. Your articles were great. I hope you write more- Carolyn

Reply

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